iamshack

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) Yeah. My point was that it was, at one point. But no, none of my friends have cars. But you're also making it seem as though there is no way to enjoy a game without spending a fortune, and that's just not true... If you can't go to a game on a gorgeous summer night and enjoy yourself without buying a ton of food and booze, well I just don't think you're a huge baseball fan.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 01:45 PM) In my mind, it's a lot of fun to have a corned beef sandwich and fries before the game with a Coke. Two beers during the game. A hot dog late in the game. That ought to do it. So what does that cost me, just for ME, not to mention the people I bring? Attending sporting events is not for the working class southsider who defines the White Sox. Newsflash...attending professional sporting events is not, and has not, been for the working class person in ANY town for quite a few years now...it's for corporations and upper-middle class or affluent fans for the most part.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 09:59 AM) jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick The deal includes several club options that could raise value to $37.5M over 8 years. It could top $40M if he hits escalators. #Rays reach agreement with pitcher Matt Moore on 5-year, guaranteed $14M contract, source says Very similar to what they did with Evan Longoria. Smart move, as long as his arm holds up.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:23 PM) I mean, once again, most affordable games are on weekdays, and I don't have the luxury of being able to leave work early to go tailgate...I also don't own a car. But I shouldn't have to go out of my way to make a game affordable and enjoyable. At some point it's just not worth it. That point has passed (and I went to 8 games last year...that won't happen this year) You have no friends with cars? Look, I've been in your position...just out of college, not a ton of discretionary income, have to pick and choose your fun on the cheap in order to stretch your dollar. Bottom line is, going to a lot of MLB games is not really within your reach right now. And I say MLB, because it's not a Sox thing...this is a MLB and even a professional sports thing. Beers are going to be $7-8 bucks. Any decent food is going to be $8-15 bucks. Decent tickets are going to be $30-50. So you only go to 1 or 2 games a year...no big deal. Support the team by watching them on tv or listening to them on the radio.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:01 PM) Its short sighted only because this thread about winning at the Winter Meetings. We didnt do much of anything other than alienate some of our fan base and declare rebuilding. Seriously, how the hell am I supposed to read anything in your posts anymore?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:11 PM) What I think doesn't make a difference. I'm just a fan, and even if we say I'm a fan with a ton of knowledge, what I think about the Sox talent level is irrelevant. Hell, what anybody THINKS about it doesn't matter. All that matters is where the team is after 162 games. Well I am not saying you get to make any decisions. But in order for us to have a discussion about this, which you clearly intended, since you joined the thread and quoted my post, we need to have your opinion.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:07 PM) Two playoff appearances in eleven years. I understand some of those other nine years had good teams that missed the playoffs, but this is a bottom line business and we're not even in the best division in the AL. Yep, I understand. How many years do you think we had the best roster?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Everything is fun about drinking and eating at the ballpark. One word for you: Tailgate

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) In otherwords, take the fun out of going to a baseball game. Gotcha. I think i'll just watch at home, thanks. The reason for me to go to a park should go beyond fandom. This is every major league baseball team. If you want to go to a baseball game and drink beer and eat a lot of food and NOT spend a ton of money, go to a MiLB game, because it isn't happening in the MLB anymore. I went to quite a few games when I was still living in Chicago, and I would get two Kosher dogs and a beer, which would cost around $15, and that was it for me. If you want to get drunk at a baseball game, be prepared to shell out $75-100, that's just the way things are now.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:48 AM) I'm not talking short term here. Williams has experienced 5 underachieving seasons in the past 6. So I guess if there were a GM whose team made the playoffs 5 times in 6 years despite making some seemingly bad moves, yeah, I'd stick with him. Wait a second here...the 2006 team won like 90 games...and that was not his fault that they failed down the stretch...they had the second best record at the ASB. Obviously in 2005 there was a WS... The 2008 team won a division... The 2011 team had every chance to win and the players and the manager just s*** themselves... That's 4 teams in the last 7 that I felt very good about, and honestly, the 2009 team had every chance to win. The 2010 team KW and JR agreed to let Ozzie have things his way. I can understand the discontent and the desire for change...but I'm not ready to turn my back on KW just yet...I want to see him function with someone that isn't bats*** crazy for a year or two...

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) I agree with your first paragraph. I recall myself being excited to land Rios, as he has all the talent in the world and seemed like he was simply unhappy in Toronto. To be honest, I was in favor of all three of the acquisitions of Dunn, Rios, and Peavy (and in that order). There were some reservations with Peavy's injury history, but I never foresaw it going as badly as it did. Either way, mistakes are mistake and KW should still be on his way out. So you're of the belief that a manager or leader who fails strictly by results should be fired, even if the circumstances were unforeseeable? And I'm not trying to claim that KW hasn't made mistakes; but if you're going to judge him by those three moves, are you saying you'd fire the guy that achieved poor results but whose thinking was sound? Presumably you would keep the guy that achieved good results but whose thinking was not sound? I guess the reason I am such a supporter of KW is because despite the fact that his results haven't been wonderful in recent years, I do believe in his methods. I'd rather be patient with a person whose methods I believe in than one who may experience success in the short term by way of luck.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) The funny thing is that in theory, Theo would have agreed with the Rios deal http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...9,0,71568.story I actually liked the Rios deal better than the Peavy one. Yes, I was excited we got Peavy right at the deadline like we did, but in my view, we exposed ourselves to a lot more risk picking up a guy who benefitted from an extreme pitcher's park and had a lot of injury concerns coming with him than the guy who has all the talent in the world, but has an attitude problem. I sincerely believed Rios would blossom here under Ozzie. Unfortunately, I am still waiting. As for Dunn...I never liked Dunn as a player, and I was one of the few who was not excited about that acquisition. However, he was always a consistent offensive player and it would have been impossible to predict the extent to which he would so suddenly fall. How can you blame an executive who's business it is to speculate that which was not foreseeable? All that being said, I agree with Theo...and I am willing to bet if the Cubs had any money they would be willing to talk to the White Sox about Dunn right now.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Dec 9, 2011 -> 11:06 AM) Meanwhile, not a murmur from our Bulls They are just operating in the shadows

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 10:57 PM) Ozzie shouldnt care what a player makes, he should care about winning and putting the best team on the field. If anything, the GM would care more about the players making more money playing more, but KW told Ozzie not to care about that yet Ozzie still did that. Why? Because Ozzie clearly wanted to do the 180 of what KW wanted. Exactly. Usually it is the GM asking the manager to play guys based on salary so they can try to move someone or justify their salary.

As much as I love Alexei, I'd deal him in a second if we could get Teheran from them.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 03:50 PM) If somehow the team is actually winning then Peavy could be holdable, since his contract ends. Dunn and Rios need to be moved of at all possible even if te team is winning. Really? I'm not so quick to give up on Dunn...I know, we've had this argument before. But I think he'll bounce back and be just fine.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) If the sox have to chip in a good chunk of his contract to move him, they should do do as long as they save something. Obviously this depends on the state of the team at that point. Obviously if someone is willing to take Jake, it means he's been pitching well. If he's been pitching well, that means the team might be winning. If the team is winning, it may not make sense to trade Jake just to save $5-6 million.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) After what went down at the 10 deadline, no way Kenny is dealing with Rizzo unless it is a complete screw job.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:41 PM) I think you folks should ask yourself a question... what kind of rebuild do you want? What Kenny appears to be going for... I think... is a 2-3 year timeline. That's what it looks like. He's asking for near-ready talent. The alternative to that is, you tear the whole damn thing down, and start building from the very bottom, up. But here is the catch - as enticing as that idea might seem, you have to look at history, and acknowledge that teams who attempt to go that cheap and young, typically don't create a contender in 2-3 years. They end up mired in for 5, or 10, or more years. Which do you want? Well I agree, but it's very difficult to trade for players that are really close. Any team with "really close" prospects is going to just wait until they can contribute for their own organization. Kenny needs to target teams with a short "win now" window or for particular prospects that are blocked or buried by others, but short of that, times have changed. Teams aren't going to trade cost-certainty for more costly veteran performance certainty unless they are really special veteran players. Unfortunately, we aren't really offering anyone that falls into that category. Which means you either stick with what you have and just cut the excess fat (Thornton, AJ, Quentin), or you just trade all your MLB assets other than those that are undervalued but that you think will rebuild value (Gordon), or those that are still building value (Sale), and get as many high quality prospects as you can get. I don't think even Kenny necessarily knows which route they are going at this early stage.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) What are you rebuilding towards? There is not a shortstop in the Sox system that has any reasonable shot at ever being as good as Alexei. And few other teams have such a prospect, and furthermore, wouldn't trade them. You draft one in the next few years? IF you are going with a full-scale rebuild, what good is Alexei going to be to you in 3-4 years?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) Ramirez? Viciedo? Insane. You have to rebuild around something - young talent, specifically. Santos was similarly young and cheap and valuable to other teams, but you seem to miss a very important piece of the puzzle here - Santos was easy to replace in-house. Ramirez? Viciedo? Who will replace them? I don't think trading Ramirez is insane at all. I think you have to move him if you're going to move Danks and Floyd. Viciedo I think you need to keep to give he fanbase someone to be excited about if you are indeed dumping all your vets...

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 8, 2011 -> 12:17 PM) Priority one for the Sox has to be acquiring young pitching while lowering payroll. To that end, the next guys to go should be Ramirez and Floyd (Thornton has few takers). If the demand isn't there for Danks, keep until the break. To get a blue chip pitching prospect I advocate shopping Viciedo. I think the best chance to deal Floyd is to Baltimore, but do they have anyone worth a s*** left in their system? I remember a lot of people being high on their young arms a few years ago, but where are they now? Last I heard, their system was supposedly pretty weak.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) You had my stance wrong, at least concerning KW's current asking price. I'm not faulting him for it. Some team will either panic or the price will come down. He can't f*** up these deals or the Sox will be bad for a long time. I do think KW needs to go, which I'm sure you don't agree with. No, I know your stance. Your stance is blatantly obvious. I can't wait to read you b****ing and moaning for the next 2 years. At least now maybe you can drop the budget conspiracy theories since you're no longer a season ticket holder.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:09 PM) You don't think the rebuilding will be daunting? We just traded for the Blue Jays' #18 prospect and he immediately became our #2 prospect. That's how bad our minor league system is. While our drafting has been better in recent years, it will take several strong drafts to replenish the system and the new CBA isn't going to make that any easier for us. I don't care how much production you think we'll be giving up, which is a lot more than you're giving credit for, we simply don't have the talent to replace most of it. If we don't hit on most the prospects we acquire and most of our young players on the major leage roster don't develop into solid regulars, we are going to be in serious f***ing trouble. Rebuilding may be the right decision, but let's not kid ourselves, it's most likely going to be a long and painful process. Here you go with the #18 prospect again. Give it up.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) You are misinterpreting my post. Again. Please look at what I was responding to and post again. There's nothing wrong for asking for an overpay. He claimed there was no market for these players. There obviously is one, but the bids are currently not anywhere near the offer. I didn't misinterpret it, I just chose that moment to comment on your stance which I gathered from 2 or 3 different threads, as well as the posters who want these trades done now but also want maximum value. Sorry, I shouldn't have bothered to quote that particular comment.