iamshack

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) Because they haven't worked consistently yet. They haven't? Many of the best players on our team are a product of those methods, Russ.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) Aren't you the one that likes to bet on games? Could've fooled me. So let's ignore the draft and LA because it's too risky? No. That's no good. Read my post again.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 09:36 AM) Anyway, you can accuse me of what you want to accuse me of. I'm a baseball fan first. White Sox fan second. I follow other organizations and how they operate. If I was White Sox 24/7 and nothing else, I would have nothing to gauge them against. There's absolutely no excuse that the best position player a big market franchise like the White Sox can produce in 10 years is Joe f***ing Crede, or the best pitcher, is, um, s***, I can't even think of one. You keep talking about how risky it is to invest in the draft and LA? It's a risk for EVERY team. I fail to see your point there. Now if 83-85 wins tickles your fancy because, well, it's better than it was in the 50's, good for you. I'm not accepting that s***. And will always be a one postseason appearance every 3-4 years in a s***ty division until we address these glaring weaknesses. Yes, you are failing to see the point here. If the draft and international scouting are such guessing games, why not try building through methods which are characterized by less risk?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) lol. I ran off like 6 guys from their farm that are producing like crazy for them THIS year. If you want to pimp Lillibridge and Humber, I can do the same for their no-name guys that have them in first place (or I guess a game behind the red-hot Brewers right now). You did. You brought up Jon Jay!

QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 08:18 AM) I also begin my first day of work at my internship in less than 45 minutes. I'm nervous but I am excited and ready to hit the ground running. Tell them you have the solution to end the lockout!

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) Except I was comparing the Cardinals run to the Sox run under KW. I never gave a criteria to how far we could go back. You're the one that shrank it down to since 2006 to make a point. Ramirez was a FA signing. Santos was a product of the farm? If you say so. Look, I never said the ONLY wait to gather cheap talent was through draft/la. But a truly elite organization can do a little bit of everything. Great finds? Trades? What's the difference? I've always given KW credit for those moves. But the fact we have to keep going back to those moves proves my point. It's a what have you done for me lately sport. And KW hasn't done much lately. No, you really haven't. You've done exactly as Balta and I and other have accused you of doing - played the grass is always greener game - and again, this is simply because you aren't as knowledgeable about these organizations and so you don't focus on their failures, but only their successes, because that is what is highlighted in most media outlets, whether it be television or internet sources.

The bottom line is the first-year player draft and international scouting are the traditional formats in which to build your organization. But not the only ways to do so. Again, someone PLEASE recognize not only all the money spent on wasted draft picks, but the OPPORTUNITY COSTS associated with failed prospects. It seems like I bring this up everytime this conversation occurs and yet none of you want to touch it. There is a cost associated with developing a prospect, giving him MLB at bats and extra attention from the coaching staff, penciling him in as the fixture at his position for years to come, making acquisitions (or not making acquisitions) based around such a proclamation, only to realize that after several call-ups and many years that this player simply does not have what it takes to make it in the major leagues or in your organization. A HUGE cost in resources, be it $, time, coaching, and the effect it might have had on your acquisitions. This is basically an opportunity cost. And it can be a very costly opportunity cost. Now multiply that by several times and this is why it isn't just as simple as pouring money into the draft, into international scouting, and waiting for all your young superstars to emerge in a few years. This is certainly no excuse to do a subpar job drafting or with international scouting, but it's simply an indicator that you can commit to these endeavors in degrees, and shift resources towards more known quantities, such as proven veterans, or more advanced players in other systems which need a little tweaking, or simply more advanced players in other systems that can be poached due to timing/financial considerations, etc. It's no secret which camp the White Sox fall into. And I still haven't seen anything that proves to me it is the wrong camp.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 07:44 AM) You could also say their farm net them Scott Rolen, Larry Walker and Matt Holliday. And why are you forgetting about Jaime Garcia? He's now proven he was no flash in the pan. I'm not saying the Cards are the Red Sox. But they dwarf the White Sox. Why do you have to go back 4, 5, or 6 years? I thought you were talking about RIGHT NOW! This is such tired bulls***. Our farm net us Gavin Floyd, John Danks, Alexei Ramirez, Carlos Quentin, Matt Thornton, Sergio Santos, Brent Lillibridge...I mean we can go on and on and on and on. You love strong farm systems and young kids. That's impossible to miss. But it's not the only way to build a good baseball team.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 07:49 AM) Yes, it does. Teams looking for pitching to get over that proverbial hump aren't looking at Phil Humber as that difference maker. Have you looked at what's available as far as SP's go this year? I think a guy who's produced like Humber has is going to be asked about quite often.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 12:56 AM) I start my 1st day of work tomorrow. Hello, real world. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 13, 2011 -> 07:16 AM) Padres just DFA'd Aaron Poreda. Good thing we didn't hold onto him. I would be surprised if we didn't resign him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 10:30 PM) Pierre is not that good, but he's not deserving of the venom he gets on this site. I don't like slap hitters like Juan, who also has lost a step stealing bases and in the field, but he's not one of the worst players in baseball, either. People got on me for praising Bobby all last year saying it was 'ad nauseum.' We get it. Most of you hate Juan. Why beat the same ol dead horse over and over and over? At least shut up when some of us beat a dead horse on things you don't want to hear about cause we get it ... Juan sucks and you hate Juan ... on and on and on. This coming from the guy who says the same gloom and doom in the game threads night after night after night. And look up the definition of ad nauseam.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) Kila has very little value. They'll probably try to hold onto Butler as their DH. Not sure how much Wilson Betemit will fetch in trade, not much is the guess. Indians look like they will be on a 4-13/1-8 stretch if they lose again today to the Yankees. Only have to lose five more in a row to equal our 4-18 stretch...with the only (and key) difference being they'd still be 1 game over .500 as opposed to 11 games under. 5 shutouts suffered during that stretch. Of course, facing Boston, Texas, TB and the Yankees doesn't help the cause. We've already survived that same march, fortunately. Remember when I said an 8-18 month was coming for them? Oh yeah...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 09:00 PM) Dink hits, BB with bases loaded, HBPs, dropped foul ball that led to runs... Realistically, we didn't deserve that game. Well that sounds like we took advantage of our opportunities and the A's played a very poor game...not that we didn't deserve to win it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 08:32 PM) Realistically, we didn't deserve to win the first game of the series, and Oakland didn't deserve the second. It evens itself out. I keep seeing everyone posting this...and I didn't see that game, but I was following it online and saw we won like 9-4 or 9-5 or something. How do you win by that score and not deserve it? There were THAT many dink hits?

QUOTE (zenryan @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) I use to think the Twins were pretty much toast until I saw in the paper today they've played only 24 home games compared to 40 road games. Yeah, I saw that too...and while they started out horrendously at home, I think they're 8 -1 in their last 9 or something there.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 06:19 PM) There are only threads when its such a "devastating loss" for the team with "no balls" that would surely drop the next two to Cy Gio and this other schmuck. We never bounce back from despicable losses like Friday night...

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) Pierre 2-for-4 today. Sox win. Enjoy. Oh, you've totally made your point! s***, you're so smart!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 11:42 AM) I think it's safe to say that the White Sox's farm system has outranked and outproduced the Cardinals farm system for the last 4-ish years. Can we not just look at farm systems though? The goal is to find productive, cost-controlled players using the least amount of resources possible. How you achieve that is irrelevant as far as I am concerned.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 11:52 AM) Anybody take a second to learn that left-handed hitters fare better against the actual pitcher opposing Sox hitters today and therefore Ozzie stacked the lineup to reflect the best chance for success? No? Didn't think so. Please continue... Anybody take a second to learn that Brent Lillibridge's improved defense in LF would most likely be more valuable than any offensive contribution Juan might make that Lillibridge could not, because of the handedness of the Oakland SP? Have you been watching the games this year? Didn't think so.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 11:17 AM) What is wrong with Ozzie? Why must he be enamored with a player every year that is completely ineffective? How is this acceptable to KW & JR? Absolutely no idea...and I don't think it's a KW supported thing...I think he would love to have Lillibridge playing instead, but he has no power over Ozzie.

1. Coco Crisp (S) CF 2. Cliff Pennington (S) SS 3. Ryan Sweeney (L) LF 4. Hideki Matsui (L) DH 5. David DeJesus (L) RF 6. Daric Barton (L) 1B 7. Scott Sizemore ® 3B 8. Landon Powell (S) C 9. Jemile Weeks (S) 2B 1. Juan Pierre (L) LF 2. Alexei Ramirez ® SS 3. Carlos Quentin ® RF 4. Paul Konerko ® DH 5. A.J. Pierzynski (L) C 6. Alex Rios ® CF 7. Adam Dunn (L) 1B 8. Omar Vizquel (S) 2B 9. Mark Teahen (L) 3B

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) Pierre back in the lineup? Yep.

No Lillibridge today. Ridiculous.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2011 -> 08:32 AM) We will in a week to 10 days. And pretty much better than just about anyone else could offer You think we can reasonably count on Peavy? His history suggests he'll be injured again much more than that he will remain healthy.