iamshack

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:29 PM) Could you explain this? This team had Wise leading off and as the starting CF, Corky Miller as a backup catcher, a wing and a prayer 4 and 5th starter and haven't played very well at home all year. They've just started playing better with The Count working his stuff out in the minors, Gavin and Danks turning it around and Beckham coming up. There was very little to be excited about this team for a long time, and they were playing like it. I'm talking about the general lack of knowledge the average White Sox fan has about the team. This is due, as I have argued in the past several times before, to the fact that Chicago beat writers, at least those that cover baseball, are absolutely brutal. They do not do their homework and it shows in their reporting. There are probably 25-50 posters on this website alone that are more knowledgeable about the White Sox organization than our beat writers are, and this isn't a well-paying job for those posters! Our fanbase might be more apt to support the team if it actually understood the position the team was in, why it was doing what it was doing, why we had no leadoff hitter, why Corky Miller is the backup catcher, etc. There are reasonable answers for these questions, it's just that no one bother to give them to the fanbase. It's unfortunate.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:23 PM) Also keep in mind until recently the Sox have been below .500 for most of the season. They were 33-36 coming into the Dodgers series. When you have a team that had Corky Miller batting 6th, Lillibridge and Wise leading off at times, it really doesn't inspire a very good walk-up especially considering they jacked up the prices for that series. As I stated earlier, its more expensive to go to a White Sox game than to go to any other team's games except for 4, and those 4 all have payrolls significantly higher than the White Sox. The Red Sox were the closest and there's is $26 million higher. Blaming the fans for not showing up when your team has played like the White Sox have played most of the season isn't going to go well. It's not blaming as much as it's just being honest. Why is the truth so offensive to you? And secondly, for as many high payroll teams the White Sox have put out there, and amongst the group of teams you mention, they certainly have the most volatile fan base to try and impress. And to claim that the White Sox are not concerned about their fanbase, and don't go above and beyond to make the experience a pleasurable one for all types of fan, is just ludicrous.

I'm sorry, some of you may certainly have been affected significantly by the economic downturn, but you will not convince me that that is the reason for the drop in attendance. It's not an actual change in earnings. It's an attitude. The fans are not happy with this team, they know fewer and fewer players from the WS team, their are probably lesser company season ticket packages that were purchased, etc. But there is still PLENTY of money in the City of Chicago and the suburbs to support this team at a higher clip. It's being proven year in and year out on the Northside. This is just another instance of White Sox fans being less than educated about the team and it's players, and being whiny and stubborn.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:15 PM) The state of Illinois has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. People are hurting. If they are only going to go to one or two games all season, why wouldn't they pick Boston or the Yankees, they are far more interesting than a Manny-less Dodger team? Or why not save a lot of money and see the Tigers or Twins in a divison match up that means a little more? Whoever priced the game is trying to live off the 59 WS. They already celebrated that in 2005. If people were really that interested in the Dodgers they can go see them 8 miles north every season. And they do go see them 8 miles north. I understand the demographics of the two teams in Chicago, but from the way you describe things, Dick, it certainly doesn't seem to follow on the North side from what I can tell...

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:11 PM) I know KW is a savvy guy, but these comments could have come right out of the mouths of any GM/Chrysler/NYC major investment bank/AIG/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac CEO...just makes him and the marketing staff seem completely out of touch with what's reality in the marketplace. I'm sorry, but I really just don't buy into this. I think people are going waaaayyy too far in crying about this economy. Sure, the economy is bad. Sure, people are losing their jobs. Sure, people lost money in the stock market. But honestly, how many of us here have had their lives changed in the past 18 months so significantly so that we can no longer afford to go to White Sox games? It's like a massive social excuse for everything bad that happens to people now...the economy, the economy, the economy. While it's certain some people have had their lives significantly changed, whether it be through losing their jobs, losing some of their 401k, etc., this has not been such a great disaster that 95% of our fans cannot continue to support the team as they always have.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:07 PM) Well, considering that the Ballpark in Arlington is basically the best hitters park in the world... And what are the next few?

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 11:03 PM) He points to the Dodgers series which was a premium series in the middle of the week and on top of it, the Sox raised ticket prices and parking and dumped payroll and the biggest thing is in this economy the comment shouldn't be made. This is Chicago, not Kansas City, not Minnesota, not Detroit, not Baltimore, not Milwaukee. This is a major market with a relatively high standard of living being achieved. Prices are not going to be what they are in Cincinnati. Get over it. Sox fans are probably some of the most finnicky, most prone to complaining and whining, and defensive people in all of sports. The Dodgers series should have drawn better; it was a series against the best team in baseball right now, one of the mlb's historic franchises, a team from another major market, etc. I don't think there is any question that the team should have drawn better that series.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:59 PM) Yes, I'd turn it down. And no, he is nothing close to what I want Gordon Beckham to be. I want Beckham to be the 2008 Ian Kinsler not the 2009 Ian Kinsler. .315 AVG, .375 OBP, 18 HR, 76 RBI, 41 2B, 26 SB. BTW, Kinsler's OPS outside of Arlington since 2006: .752 And it's .680 this season. Well, keep in mind you're posting his numbers the day after he just broke an 0-20 streak. Let's revisit this again in a month. As for his numbers outside of Arlington, do you really mean to suggest he would not flourish in our ballpark?

I really don't get the anger over his comments. He didn't say the fans sucked, he didn't say the team was unappreciated, he said their numbers are off of what they expected. I don't understand why that is such a venomous statement. I swear, White Sox fans are incredibly thin-skinned and defensive, whether it comes to the Cubs, the attendance, or an outsider being objective about the organization.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:46 PM) Kinsler does the same s*** every season. He has an awesome 1st month or 2 than severely cools off. He's been on pace to hit 40 HR every May for the past 3-4 years. He can't survive the Texas summers. He's still hitting .252 and has an OBP thats .002 points higher than Alexei's. Not going to deny that he seems to start out hot. And he has been an injury-prone player in the past, but he has already eclipsed his HR totals for the previous years. Correct me if I am wrong, but if the problem is the Texas summers, what does that have to do with him playing in Chicago? Wouldn't we in fact be buying low then if that was the case? Say what you want about his OBP, but he's also sporting a .500 Slugging percentage, for a second baseman. If the Rangers offered us Kinsler for Beckham right now, you'd turn it down? The guy is everything we want Beckham to be, except he has already proven he can do it.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 10:36 PM) Kinsler is hitting .252. Adam Jones? We can't afford 1/3 of the guys you mentioned. Kinsler is on pace to hit 40 home runs, knock in 107, score 121 runs and steal 32 bases, all at a premium position in 2b. Not good enough for you? When Slayer starts putting up those numbers, you come find me. Adam Jones is having a very solid year batting .304 and is on pace for 23 homers, 89 rbi, 101 runs scored, with a handful of sb's and a mid-800's OPS in his first full big league season at the age of 24. Sorry, not good enough for you either? And we can afford plenty of the guys on that list, with the exception of Teixeira probably. If you honestly would only trade Gordon for three players in the entire league right now, you have some seriously high expectations for him....unrealistic expectations IMHO.

I understand the excitement in regards to Gordon, and now the mainstream media is beginning to discuss him as a "star in waiting," etc., but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Three players? Come on.... Ryan Braun, Ian Kinsler, David Wright, Chase Utley, HanRam, Evan Longoria, Nick Markakis, Cole Hamels, King Felix, Mark Teixeira, Yovani Gallardo, Albert Pujols, Jose Reyes, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Adam Jones...I mean, I could go on and on....there are soo many good young players in mlb right now...Gordon might be part of that group in a year or two...but he hasn't done enough yet to warrant THIS kind of praise.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...0,5313097.story

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:50 PM) I'm sure bad luck accounts for his .276 BAA vs. righties, .317 BAA vs. lefties, and 1.938 WHIP on the road. AZ fans are sure happy to see him gone. Hopefully Coop sees something though, and I hope Kenny talked with Coop and gave Coop some video beforehand. I'm positive Kenny shows Cooper these guys on video and Coop gives him the thumbs up or thumbs down. My guess is Coop and Kenny identified this guy a long while ago, and he just became available now.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:46 PM) It's not the Vazquez deal alone (I did group it with Swisher for a reason), it's just that I've collectively linked them as proof that last offseason was not very good for our scouts and Williams. For Flowers to be the only thing decent coming out of Swisher and Vazquez is just a reality that is incapable of being spun positively. Mainly, the issue here is that you cant acquire a total of seven players in exchange for two of your major leaugers (who are both doing well for their respective teams, BTW), and hope that only ONE becomes productive. And Flowers better turn into something or else it will really be looked at as a terrible offseason of trades for Williams. Well, I can't disagree with you in regards to Swisher, as I never understood that deal. But the Vazquez deal, if even Flowers turns into the player he in all past history appears he can be, that deal will have been worth it. Would I have liked to get some more out of the deal, of course, but you have to keep in mind that last offseason was probably the worst offseason to be dumping salary in recent history. I'm sure there wasn't a whole lot of interest out there for two guys making decent coin that were coming off mediocre years.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:23 PM) Wow, Brent Lillibridge seems like a distant memory. Honestly, I don't get it...We traded for Javy, everyone was upset. The prospect we gave up for him has been underwhelming at best. While Javy was here, hardly anyone wanted him. Kenny traded him away, and now people are complaining about the return. Even though the centerpiece of the deal is playing well in AA at a premium position. People just always need to complain about everything. Javy Vazquez was not traded for Brent Lillibridge.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:11 PM) This move proves Williams' confidence in his scouting department. I know Williams and company have done well, as a whole, these last few seasons, but the recent mess of last offseason (Swisher/Vazquez) really doesn't need to be amplified with anything resembling production with Allen. Atleast with Arizona and Quentin they had what they perceived as an excess of outfielders. It's not as if we're overwhelmed with prospects and could stand to lose a few. What are you suggesting there?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 05:02 PM) Meghan Fox is sexy, but overrated. She's more of a f***ing crazy one night chick than a chick you'd actually want to date. Well I don't think anyone here is really thinking about dating her...

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) Anyone that doesn't want Fox, send her over my way. Now if you could just get that damn "Brian" tattoo off her...

I think it's great that the guy is willing to have some fun and step outside of the "professionalism" bs. I always find guys like this to be a breath of fresh air. You know they're all thinking it. Bout time someone said it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) I guess we'll just disagree, as he would get way more than 15 million on the open market and could go to any team he wants (including teams he might feel like are in a better chance to contend, like Yanks/Red Sox/Dodgers for the next few years). You have to remember that the general consensus in baseball is that the Sox are an aging team with their big named offensive guys on their last legs. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that he could probably get more than $15 million. He could probably get close to $20 million. But you're missing the fact that the Blue Jays still have to agree to move him. And they may not agree to do that if the packages offered are skimpy because the teams offering them have no reassurance he'll stay beyond 2010. Which means that he could be stuck in Toronto for another year and a half. Perhaps it is worth it to him to give up $3-5 million a year for two years in order to get the hell out of Canada?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) Unless some team goes nuts and offers him an extension like 3 years, 60 million, there's just no reason for him to not become a free agent. There is if it makes the Jays decide not the deal him because the package isn't good enough. If you're KW, my guess is you're willing to extend him for 2 years and $30 million beyond his current contract. That might be plenty for Halladay to decide he would give up the right to pursue FA if it gives him a chance to play for a contender this season and the next 3 afterwards.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) One big thing to remember is that Toronto has a lot of good young pitching, especially LHP. Thus, Richard and Poreda are a lot less valuable to them than they would have been to San Diego. Thus, that's why you'll hear names like Beckham and Flowers in any trade for Halladay. They also are going to be stacked in the OF, with Wells, Rios, Lind and Snider. Even more reason you'll hear Flowers and Beckham...

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:48 PM) Yes, but why agree to an extension now when he could be a free agent in a year and have the bigger market teams involved? Because whether or not he agrees to an extension is a large factor in the package the Jays get for him, meaning whether or not they accept a deal for him. If he agrees to an extension, they'll get more pieces back.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 12:45 PM) But why in the world would Halladay do that? Because he wants the hell out of Canada at this point?