Jenksismyhero

QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:39 PM) I assumed we were talking about the United States. War movies do pretty well at the box office...

Well, with ISU going down and Baylor going down, my bracket is pretty f***ed.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 09:48 AM) Nunn wasn't even on Illinois' radar while Weber was the coach. And I think it's a bit unfair to call Nunn a bust. He had no offseason because of the knee injury, averaged 11 ppg and had 4 games of 20+. He's a streaky shooter, needs to be more consistent, and needs to get better with his right hand. But calling Nunn a bust is just flat out wrong. The roster that Groce inherited DOES matter when you evaluate him. Webber's last 3 classes left Groce with 2 B1G caliber players after the '09 class left. While it's easier to find instant impact freshman in basketball than in football, it's still not easy. Bertrand's Sr. year, that roster was bad and it was short. This year was a disappointment. But part of that was because of the Abrams injury. Part was Cosby being a colossal bust (how much of that is on the coaching staff is debateable). At some point, Illinois needs to take a step forward. But the 4th year, to me, is the important one. Groce's first recruits are upper classmen now. Hopefully, like Maryland and Arkansas, Year 4 is the year we see the leap. There are obvious reasons for concern, but next year's roster should have plenty of talent (assuming Abrams has a close to complete return from the injury). IF it's a bad season again, then Groce's seat is hot. I thought Nunn was a target and someone that considered (and visited) Illinois. I recall there being stories about Hill recruiting him to Illinois to play with him. But maybe my memory is wrong. Still, at the end of the day, you're blaming a coach that got fired for not leaving enough pieces to his successor. I think that's a crap argument. 3 years in, 2 of the best players on the team, and 3 of the top 4 if Abrams stayed healthy, were Weber recruits/commits. So either Weber left him terrible talent, or Groce's own recruits are so terrible that they're not as good as Weber's terrible recruits. Depth is pretty far down the line of concern, especially at the end of the season when no one showed up. I think given the talent Illinois got from Weber, and you add Rice, Groce should have been able to find more serviceable parts that could contribute and win. We're not talking Final Four/Big Ten titles here. We're talking about being slightly better than .500 in the Big Ten and getting a bid in a tourney that has spots for 68 (!) teams. It's a joke that they can't hit that pretty low threshold. Nunn is a bust is a bit of hyperbole. Is he a Big Ten player? Yes. But other than a stretch in the middle of the conference season, and the one game against NW, he's been a no show. Teams have finally scouted him properly. There was talk at the beginning of Big Ten play that he was Illinois' best player and someone who could be all big ten in a couple years. That ceiling is a pipe dream now unless he really works to improve in the off season. He should be more than someone who makes corner 3's. IMO if they miss the tournament next year he should be fired. Not just hot seat, but fired. At that point you'll know whether Groce is the guy or not. You can't afford to wait another year. In 2016-2017 Hill and Nunn will be seniors. That'd be the time to make a run before a massive loss of players in 2017-2018 (6 i think). Give the next coach a chance to win his first year before starting a recruiting rebuild. If you wait a year and they suck again, now you're rebuilding the roster with nothing to sell. 3 straight NIT's and 3 NCAA appearances in 9 years? That's a tough sell.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Honestly, this has to be a factor when evaluating Groce. The vaunted 2010 class was a bust (though Leonard is one of only 2 current Illini in the NBA). The 2011 class had only Abrams and Egwu as long-term contributors. The 2012 class was empty. Starting next year, the roster is Groce's. His first class is upperclassmen. There shouldn't be a need to bring in anything other than spot transfers at this point (adding a 5th year when you have an open scholarship just seems like good policy). IF: 1) Abrams is healthy next year, the point guard position goes from terrible to B1G average - a huge improvement. 2) Paul and Finke can score from the 5 spot without being atrocious defensively, the offense will look significantly better (Illinois was 6-1 this year when Egwu scored in double figures - including the Maryland and @ MSU wins). 3) Two of Black, Colbert, JCL, Jordan, and DJ Williams are ready to provide consistent minutes (lumped together because Hill can play 4 if necessary). Honestly, I think it's reasonable to expect improvement from Black and that JCL - the 2nd highest rated B1G recruit next year - is ready to play right away. If all that happens, then next year should be a good year. If not, this is another NIT season and Groce's seat gets really warm... ? This is his roster sans 2 players, one that didn't play, and one that was clearly one of the top three players on the team. I shutter to think how bad they'd be with Morgan/Colbert for 40 minutes. Call me Debbie Downer, but I'm not buying next year, much like I didn't buy this year. Abrams is a 33% shooter (27% from three) and he's still not a true, set-up man PG. Upgrade over Tate/Starks, but he's no where near the level of replacing Rice. Neither is JCL unless he's the second coming. You're relying on Black to take a massive leap....he didn't improve at all really this season. One bright spot, otherwise just thuggery all around. Jordan/DJ shouldn't be expected to do much of anything next year. Few minutes here and there. Finke is a wildcard, but he seems undersized for the Big Ten. And Paul isn't some skilled post player. He shoots a ton of threes. An upgrade over Egwu on offense, sure, but a huge drop off on defense. I predict it's the same year as the last 3 - decent non conference, hovering around .500 in the big ten, sweating it out in March for a bid.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 09:36 AM) I agree. It's Illinois. If Bruce Weber left Groce nothing but walk ons, he should be able to do better than a first round blowout loss in the NIT in year 3. And it's worse when you look at the Big Ten this year. It's pathetic. Wisconsin is great, Maryland and MSU are good. Everyone else sucks. You had to be average this year to get to the dance and they still couldn't do it. Losing to Nebraska? Michigan without it's best players? Minnesota? Terrible.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 09:24 PM) And I still can't get over how bad the 2011 class turned out. Ibby Djimde and Mike Shaw are terrible even at mid-majors right now, Devin Langford wasn't close to a high major player, Egwu isn't any good, Abrams is an average Big 10 guard and Myke Henry isn't any good either. Then we offered Michael Orris who is a f***ing joke in the 2012 class and Jaylon Tate in the 2013 class. I mean seriously what the f***, basketball isn't that hard. I don't know why you keep beating this drum when it doesn't matter. It's akin to blaming Bush for crap Obama does. At some point you gotta let it go. Yes, the class sucked (although even scouts were wrong about Henry and Shaw, both 4 star, 90+ graded recruits). Yes, it didn't help Groce. But we're three years down the line now. Groce had a couple of good players from the prior staff and that's about what you'd expect when a coach gets fired. Rarely is anyone fired with tons of talent on the roster. Is it a factor here? Sure, but not a big one. The bigger one is Groce's offensive coaching sucks. And as much excitement as he's brought in recruiting, frankly his recruiting hasn't done s***. Nunn is a bust unless he works on his right hand dribbling (and he was basically a Weber recruit, although not 100%. Groce just had to close the deal). Hill, a Weber commit IIRC, is easily the best player on the roster, and has the most potential. Everyone else Groce has signed and/or brought in has sucked. Rice was his savior last year, but maybe the biggest problem this year. They were better without him. He didn't fit with the other guys on the team. I'd love to throw Groce a bone and call this a bit of bad luck. The suspensions of Paul and Rice didn't help. The injuries to Abrams and Rice didn't help. Losing Snider at the last possible second after getting a verbal didn't help. Signing Tate and having to play 4-5 (or 3-5 with Egwu) for extended stretches clearly wasn't the plan, but that's what he gets for signing him. We're trending the wrong direction. I never bought last year that this season was going to be miraculously different. I laughed at those that said this was a tourney team for sure. And next year they're in the same position - bubble team. Although next year without Egwu and Rice there's a strong possibility of not getting to .500 in conference. It could be worse.

Well, if this s*** doesn't put Groce on the hot seat, not sure what will. There needs to be a change somewhere. This is a joke.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) So Nintendo just announced a deal with DeNA to start developing phone based games, and they announced that a new console is in development as well under the code name NX. And apparently investors are very happy with this http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/17/tra...ip-announcement The issue is how much does that cut into their very successful monopoly on handheld gaming. Maybe they'll be able to charge 10-15 bucks for Mario on your phone. But they can charge 30-40 and sell you a handheld unit with the 3DS.

I agree. Sounds like they've designed it so that once you start a round there is no load time. If that's the case, that'll be awesome. The prior games sucked having to wait 20-30 seconds between each hole.

Wow, so EA dropped Tiger Woods and picked up Rory for the new golf game.

Shameless. Yikes. Anyone keeping up with Last Man on Earth? Episode 3 was pretty great. I'm liking the show a lot.

Got my first round of the year in yesterday at Ruffled Feathers in Lemont. Pretty great day for golf. About 60-65 and no one was on the course. Hit some good shots and some bad shots. Ended up with an 87. For the first time out, hitting a couple new clubs (I did take some mulligans), pretty pleased. I liked the course a lot, very challenging, but I dunno that I'd pay the full summer rate. I had to walk the course too. I haven't done that since high school. Holy crap am I sore.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:20 PM) He agonized over the decision. If Illinois threw a ton of money at him, there's a decent chance he would have stayed. Of course he says that, but we all know that's crap. I don't have any inside knowledge, but I always thought for some reason that they matched Kansas' offer or even exceeded it but it wasn't enough.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) Where it all went wrong for Illinois is when they let Self walk. Of course all of my Illini friends did nothing but slam him after he left. He was a horrible game coach....everyone knew someone who actually saw him at fraternity parties hitting on girls, or had inside information from very credible sources he slept with cheerleader, he can't win big games...good riddance. I don't think there was anything about "letting" him walk. I think they threw a ton of money at him and he still wasn't interested. It was his home league, his home area and f***ing Kansas.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) It will be weird having a player who plays offense at the 5 next year. Seems like we've been watching Egwu forever. "Can't wait until Mike Tisdale is gone. It'll be so much better!"

QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) FWIW, Darius Paul is dominating his JUCO and seems to have his head on straight. Tony Snell and McBuckets dominated the Summer League too.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:09 PM) Honestly they are on the same trajectory. Yeah I used to think the needle was pointing up with the potential, but we've been saying "get rid of the seniors, it'll be so much better with the young guys" since Shaun Pruitt. And not much has changed. Around the bubble every f'n year.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) If they want to cheat, Illinois could be a top 5 program by taking the Chicago talent. And I'm pretty sure most Illinois fans would rather have Weber at the helm than Groce at this point. The results speak for themselves. Also, at this point, why the f*** not? Do what Syracuse does. Cheat for a few years, get really good, 8 seasons later when you get caught, plan your s***ty year and give yourself a postseason ban, take the slap on the wrist from the NCAA and move on. By that time it won't matter because you'll be winning and the program will be back on top of the league again.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) If they want to cheat, Illinois could be a top 5 program by taking the Chicago talent. And I'm pretty sure most Illinois fans would rather have Weber at the helm than Groce at this point. The results speak for themselves. I don't think that's true. A change was needed and the vast majority of the fan base knows that. But another change may be needed now. The AD can't f*** this up by waiting another 2-3 seasons, making the next rebuild that much harder.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) Illinois might not get the top Chicago talent, but the Chicago talent is not over-hyped. Hell after Okafor is picked #1, we are looking at 3 #1 overall picks in about 10 years coming out of Chicago. I meant the Univ of Illinois - Chicago connection is always over hyped. Not that Chicago doesn't have talent. Obviously it does.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) That's the thing, how can it be Bruce Weber's fault they got blown out today? How can it be Bruce Weber's fault they fell apart after a nice start at Purdue? Or @ Michigan, or against Indiana, or................... the 2nd half collapses have become Groce's trademark.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) If only this team had Michael Orris, Jalen James, Ibrahima Djimde, ... See above. He did such a great job replacing them with Tate, Colbert and Morgan!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) Try missing 10/15 tourneys when your school had made something like 18/23 prior to that, and the main reason was because the coach had the temerity to never lose a first round NCAA game but consistently had a hard time getting to the Sweet 16 since 1986-87. And some would argue it's 11/15 since the Hawkeyes were relegated to the play-in game after losing 6 of their final 7 and collapsing down the stretch. That said, Iowa is not Illinois (because of Chicago alone). I suppose for the Illini, it's almost ludicrous to miss anything approaching 50% or more. Chicago is so over hyped. Illinois rarely gets Chicago talent, especially since 2000. It's been about Peoria and other random players through the state. And yes, missing the tournament, especially with the expanded field, is just unacceptable. Groce got a pass because he was taking over a roster with little talent after his first few years (although I argue it wasn't as bad as others make it out to be), but at this point it's all on him and his coaching. And both have been pretty suspect thus far. Rice was his best "get." Keeping Nunn and Hill interested was big. Otherwise? A bunch of s*** players. Morgan? Colbert? Tate? Crap, Crap, Crap.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) 10 years ago Illinois was the #1 overall seed in the NCAA tourney. Now they are about to miss the tourney for the 5th time in 8 years. Bruce Weber did more damage to the Illinois basketball program than sanctions in the 90s and looking more and more like Groce is not the guy to right the ship. Depressing. Groce can't win without Weber recruits! In all seriousness, the future isn't looking very bright either. Next year you have Abrams - not a great PG, but probably an upgrade Nunn - looking like a mediocre Big Ten player at best. Totally disappeared the 2nd half of the season. Not a contributor unless he's hitting 3's Hill - still has potential to be really good, but also disappeared when they needed him most Black - a dirty player. I love his aggressiveness, but it costs the team too much. He needs to grow up. Paul - no clue. I don't expect much, so still a position of need. JCL - will undoubtedly not meet the crazy expectations. Tate - Is who he is. Will only be a Big Ten player deserving of a scholarship if he hits some jump shots. Jordan - middling contributor, possible redshirt DJW - middling contributor, possible redshirt Finke - no clue Morgan - f***ing atrocious Colbert - not good, too small for Big Ten or even D1 play

QUOTE (SnB @ Mar 12, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) Well this is embarrassing. Groce went from the savior to a warm seat real quick. Next year it's the tourney and a win or two or he has to be on the hot seat. Inexcusable to miss the dance 3 out of 4 years.