Jenksismyhero

Tebow looked decent the first 2 drives.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 07:19 PM) Actually, the 2 main causes of our debt right now are 1. Upper income tax cuts, 2. The current economic climate wiht 9% unemployment, and 3. Unpaid for wars. The #1 dominates because that's what built the majority of it over a 30 year period. THe last couple trillion appeared because then there was a finance-industry driven collapse of the entire system. Long term, the driver of our debt becomes the fact that health care costs are growing at inflation + 8%. But that's long term. It's still not a huge driver,yet. So glad we focused on that for a year instead of how to create jobs and get the economy rolling again.

So my secretary said some Chicago occupiers are trying to mess up the commute home for people. Anyone experience this? Dunno if they were hitting Union Station or what. Edit: Looks like they tried to stop traffic on a bridge: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/11/17/occ...-street-bridge/

Lol, you guys are asses. I said near total domination. I'm done with this. Back to why the Lions are dirty players.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Christ. Again. They lost by one score when their starting QB missed most of the game. F*ck. Your selective memory makes me want to find where you live, come over there, and punch you in the nose. Selective memory my ass. They were down 14-0 after three quarters. Completely out of the game. Rogers threw a terrible interception that would have made it 21-0. It was 14-7 and then immediately 21-7. They had a chance to tie the game but fell short. Again, a freakin' cock tease for the last 10 minutes. Otherwise it was near total domination.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) it's funny how you just used this exact same logic to knock Lovie a few posts ago but here, it's a point of praise when you're talking to someone else. I don't get it. I'm sorry, I didn't realize Lovie took the Bears to two conference championship games in his first 2 years. Oh, and in one of those years, going through the Colts AND Pats on the road. Little different than beating a sub .500 Seattle at home.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:23 PM) 5 decades? Are we talking about your beef with the Angelo/Lovie regime or with the Organization? Because your argument is splintering to another direction now Well Rock asked about ownership, which as someone else pointed out, has been the same family for 90 years. So generally I was referring to ownership over the long term. Re the QB's - I gotta believe that at some point they could have gotten SOMEONE. What was that stat from years ago, the Bears had 23 something qb's while Favre was with GB. And there's no one else out there they could have signed that would have been better? They tried with Cordell Stewart. After that failure maybe that's why they didn't try again.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:18 PM) The Bears beat who they needed to beat to get to the NFC championship game, that ain't luck, if Cutler had a decent game and not gotten hurt, the Bears would've had a great shot at winning that game, we didn't get blown out if you recall.He's big mistake was not going with Hanie after Cutler got hurt. If it's not luck I dunno what it is. You can't give Lovie props for beating a s***ty Seattle team to get into the NFC championship game. And don't forget, we're not even in that position if the league didn't steal a TD from Calvin Johnson in week 1 (fluke!) And the Bears had no shot at beating GB. They were a cock tease for 3 hours. That's it.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:11 PM) spending more money doesnt make these situations better. Spending it smartly does. Angelo has treated the OL and WR core like a red headed stepchild but it is hard to argue against his spending elsewhere There's no good reason the Bears couldn't have spent more money to lure a big FA QB at some point over the last 5 decades. Same with the WR position.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) Man, the more I look at stats the more ridiculous you seem. Lovie inherited a team that had won 11 total games in the two years prior to his taking over... in 121 games since Lovie became head coach, he has a 57% winning percentage, a Super Bowl appearance, and an NFC Championship Game appearance. Rex inherited an above-.500 team and has a 61% winning percentage. And what's this (with Sanchez) bulls***? Doesn't Lovie get a (with Sexy Rexy, with Brian Griese, with Kyle Orton caveats). Please. Rex inherited a team that won 13 total games the two year prior. What a huge difference. Edit: Did my math wrong. 61% is right.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) I could agree with this. Honestly, alot of people could also point to MVP-caliber players making coaches look very good. I'm not sure Sean Payton is a hero without Drew Brees. I'd like to see your perspective on how you would rank Bears ownership against your list. I would have them dead last. Eh, I can't put them dead last, but they certainly should be spending more money and making changes more frequently. Angelo and his team should have been fired long ago.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 02:45 PM) Your list became a joke the moment you mentioned Rex Ryan. Taking a 4-12 and 9-7 team to two straight AFC championship games in his first two years (with Sanchez) isn't very impressive, I agree.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) Coughlin has been on a tightrope forever. The 2 Harbaughs and Smith are pretty much right where Wisenhunt was 2 years ago. Coughlin has been on a tightrope his entire tenure, and yet he's still there, and will be for the foreseeable future. They contend just about every year and he just won a SB a few seasons ago. How on earth can you say Jim Harbaugh is anywhere close? That's just idiotic. And close to Wisenhunt? I don't know what that means. Are these guys losing hall of fame qb's and the best receiver in the game following an SB appearance for a franchise that was terrible for decades? I'll give you John Harbaugh if he continues to lose games he shouldn't. But he's won a lot of big games against the best teams, including the important teams like NE and Pitt. I don't see that unless, again, they tank for a couple of season. Guess what, if McCarthy or Belichick tank for 2 seasons they'd be on the hot seat too. But that's not very realistic.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 01:16 PM) The remarkable thing is of course that 1/2 your list of "Definitenly take them" will be either in your "probably not" or "already was fired" list in about 2 years. You're nuts. Who out of that group is close to being fired? None of them. They'd have to be absolutely wretched the next 2 seasons and I don't see how that's possible.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) It's still not a good comparison. "Being a leader" is a minor aspect of playing QB, something to get you from good-to-great but definitely doesn't make up for being terrible at QB. Conversely, "being a leader" is a very important aspect of the HC's job. In-game decisions are also important, and no one is arguing that Lovie is good at those. We're all sort of laughing that your positions keeps requiring you to discount every positive thing about this team under Lovie's tenure and focus specifically on the things he's not good at. He's an above-average coach who generally fields a winning team. He has a coaching philosophy that has worked well for the defense and ST, which is not surprising given his background. His offenses have been less than desirable, but a major factor in that is a GM who doesn't give him decent personnel. He has assembled a great cast of assistant coaches around him who have embraced his approach and get the players to perform. The game-planning for the Bears has improved over his tenure and he rarely comes out of the gate getting out-coached. His second-half adjustments need improvement, but he's not routinely blowing leads in the 4th quarter like other team do--the issue is usually more an inability to adjust and come back than to hang on to a lead. The TO's on this team are frustrating, and he's made some bad clock-management calls in the past. He has one of the worst challenge records, challenging plays that are clearly not going to be overturned and not challenging plays that easily would be. On both of those issues, though, the problem stems from people under Lovie and not Lovie himself. The TO problems this year have come from a bad play relay system for the offense. The challenges are reviewed and advised by people in the booth. Now, he is responsible for reforming and fixing problems, but he's not throwing the red flag based entirely on his own view of the play. You want to call him average? OK. His length of tenure and record speak otherwise, but he's not in the upper echelon of coaches. That's different from what you came in here saying, that he's "average at best," has been "lucky" in all of his successes, and that he has 4 or 5 future HOF players on the roster and is underachieving. I'm not saying it's ALL luck. I'm saying he gets lucky. I'm saying his record doesn't reflect how good his teams are. I remember those stretches early in his tenure when the defense and special teams would outscore the offense. That's not coaching, that's abnormal. Yes, I give him credit for bringing in a turnover/good defense mindset and for the defensive scheme that has clearly worked. But to me that's mostly negated by the bonehead time outs (yes, we can say that's more on Martz and the 12 year old looking qb coach, but after one game of that s*** i'd have everyone in my office getting the problem fixed, not letting it continue for 7-8 weeks into the f'n season), his refusal to make adjustments despite being outplayed (and outcoached) (who remembers that Sunday night game against the Giants last season when he refused to do ANYTHING different or at least tell Martz to try anything different. That is the s*** I cannot stand with him), the challenge issue as you mentioned, etc. I'm considering all of his work and still think he's just average. He's nowhere near "excellent" and to me not "good." Does anyone here truly believe that last year they had any business in the NFC championship game? Seriously. Were they that good? To me (and everyone I know who follows them) they were an average team that lucked into that game. I really don't understand how people can dispute that. People use that as a "oh! 2 NFC championship games, must be a great coach." People were screaming for him and Angelo to be fired after the 2009 season. All that s*** got forgotten real quick once he took an average team to the NFC championship game, which IMO, was a fluke.

This is why though that character stuff is not allowed UNLESS the defendant brings it up first. If a defendant wants to open that bag, they open themselves up to that bad stuff too. Sometimes it's just better to leave it out entirely and give the jury just the he said - he said stuff.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) The Sandusky situation has me thinking. It was written that the government needed more than a he said he said proof to take down Sandusky. Sandusky was a revered figure in the communty, working for a premier, well respected, company. He also had a great reputation in the community and a list of charitible and community projects that was exemplary. Should that make a difference in prosecuting someone? Sure, why not? But if they do the prosecution will just counter with his long standing history of being a sexual predator to combat the "good" character evidence.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 12:53 PM) What does Lovie do on a daily basis? And how is it different from other head coaches? How would he rank against the other NFL coaches if you could give him a number? Guys I'd take ahead of him for sure: Mike McCarthy Bill Belichick Mike Tomlin Sean Payton Rex Ryan Jim Harbaugh Mike Smith John Harbaugh Tom Coughlin Maybes (but probably not): Ken Whisenhunt Jim Schwartz Mike Munchak So, probably in the 10-14 range, i.e., average.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 12:02 PM) No, your argument keeps forcing you to discount everything an NFL head coach does outside of calling timeouts and challenges and half-time adjustments. Saying that Lovie is bad at a few things important to coaching but good at other, equally important things is not the same as saying Tebow is a good QB because he motivates his team while sucking at playing QB. Mmm, k. I forgot NFL head coaches still teach fundamentals and lack any assistant coaches to help them. You're completely overvaluing what Lovie does on a daily basis. I purposefully did the same with Tebow. That was the point.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) right, because Tebow has an 8 year history where he "lucked" into a superbowl, nfc chamionship game and playoff appearances. totally perfect analogy. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Tebow's 3-1 this year even though it was expected that they'd be 0-4.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) He got talent to the prairie intially, but not as much the "last few years." The pipeline to DC closed once Locksley left, and after that Zook's recruiting has been about on par with what's average for Illinois. I have no insight or idea as to what the new AD will be looking for in a replacement, but I'm semi-intrigued by Mike Leach, assuming Koenig would be retained or somebody else solid would run defense. He still gets some guys from Florida though (for example Jenkins). And he somehow manages to get a couple of average rated guys that become NFL quality players. But he's not getting any of the 4 and 5 star guys he got the first few years. I'm ready for a change. I've always said i'm fine keeping him on as a recruiting coordinator, but let someone else coach. I'm tired of the spread offense. I'm ready for a pro-style offense. Defense seems to be good enough to compete. I'm damn near ready to give the ball to O'Toole and see what he can do. Scheelhaase just can't make enough throws and teams have figured that out.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) If anything at least this thread has gotten SB to start quoting posts.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 17, 2011 -> 09:59 AM) You said "incredibly average at best" And followed that up with QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 15, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) I'm not saying he's a bad coach. I'm saying if you give this franchise another average coach they wouldn't be any worse off. By your guys' logic Tebow should be considered a good QB. He makes bad to terrible QB decisions, and he can't really throw the ball, but hey he prays a lot and gets his guys motivated to play for him and just wins!

QUOTE (lostfan @ Nov 16, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) I don't think this is fair at all TO usage - terrible since Martz has been here, but Lovie is only partially responsible for that. challenges - terrible. very very terrible. clock management - average. He's not Andy Reid out there totally oblivious to the clock and he does a good job of knowing when to throttle down the offense to preserve a safe lead. adjustments - average. sometimes he doesn't when he should, sometimes he makes the wrong adjustment, sometimes he gets it right. All coaches have games where their plan doesn't work. He's learned this over the years. Game planning - above average. From opponent to opponent the defense doesn't need to be changed too much. Players are almost always ready to play come game day and in the last couple of years there's a sense of urgency that wasn't there before when he benches players who aren't performing. When the offense goes awry, that's usually Martz and not Lovie. Lovie is not the greatest coach around but he's not terrible either. He's no worse than average, and fans of other teams would probably say he's above average. All i've said is that he's not "good" like people are claiming. He's "average." Which means that any "good" coach would/would have done better.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 16, 2011 -> 08:49 AM) From what I can tell, I think everyone is pretty excited about them, they are the frontrunners for a wild card spot after the 2-3 start. It's just one person that insists on giving Lovie Smith zero credit for anything that has happened the last eight years that is getting everyone worked up. 4 weeks ago this board was in meltdown and everyone was in agreement with me. This is exactly what Angelo/Lovie do to remain in their jobs. Be s***ty, but make a run at the most convenient time to make everyone forget it. A good coach would have reigned in Martz last year. Might have saved us a loss at NO and Det this year.