harfman77

Looking at some of the deals where aces have been traded: Haren and Connor Robertson for Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland, Greg Smith, Chris Carter, Aaron Cunningham, and CarGo. Beckett, Guillermo Mora and Mike Lowell for Hanley Ramirez, Jesus Delgado, Harvey Garcia, and Anibal Sanchez Colon and Tim Drew for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Lee Stevens Halladay for Travis D'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek, and Michael Taylor Johnson for Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Halama Clemens for David Wells, Homer Bush, and Graeme Lloyd Santana for Phillip Humber, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, and Carlos Gomez Lee and Ben Francisco for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp Lee for JC Ramirez, Phillipe Aumont, and Tyson Gillies Lee and Mark Lowe for Justin Smoak, Blake Beaven, Josh Lueke, and Matt Lawson Shields and Wade Davis for Wil Myers, Jake Odorizzi, Mike Montgomery, and Patrick Leonard Latos for Yonder Alonso, Yasmani Grandal, Edinson Vlolquez, and Brad Boxberger Dickey, Josh Thole, Mike Nickeas for D'Arnaud, John Buck, Noah Syndergaard, adn Wuilmer Beccera Haren for Joe Saunders, Patrick Corbin, Rafael Rodriguez, and Tyler Skaggs Its a pretty mixed bag of results, though more times than not it appears that the team that moved their ace received the most value after the deal was completed.

I think there is a lot of merit to the argument. Other teams feel they would be settling for Santiago when there are options they would rather pursue on the same roster.

Any deal involving Sale must include at least two guys that will be on the major league roster on 4/1. No reason to take on a bunch of low level prospects. If I were Hahn, the deals I would consider: Dbacks - Skaggs, Parra, Bradley, Davidson, Gregorius and Michael Perez - Sox include Alexi Rangers - Perez, Profar, Jackson, Odor, and Alfaro Mariners - Seager, Paxton, Walker, and Marlette Dodgers - Puig, Pederson, and Lee Red Sox - Webster, Cecchini, Owens, Swihart, and Bradley

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:47 PM) He's 26, don't handle him with kid gloves. They're not going to ruin him by playing him a lot. Those players that were "ruined" by the Sox were either guys that aren't good players or because the Sox staff has been incompetent, I don't buy for a second that they were failures because the Sox "rushed" them. I disagree, the Sox are notorious for rushing their hitting prospects and have very little to show for it. The two homegrown prospects that are on the roster are the two that everyone wants replaced. Buddy Bells "challenge assignment" philosophy has yielded very poor results. They can ruin him if they throw him out there and he is overmatched, ease him into it and let him experience success, build his confidence and let him thrive. Bringing him along slowly will not affect the teams playoff chances next season, but may every season after that.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:25 PM) You are assuming that Walker or Bradley pans out or doesn't get hurt or whatever and they end up busting. The Sox have a proven commodity in Sale. If they want to add, they should make small moves. Trading Sale is extreme, unnecessary, and would contribute to the rising possibility that the White Sox are developing a culture of losing. You aren't going to get the offer necessary. I don't know why this always comes up. No, if it is was a sure thing they would pan out it would be a one for one trade. If you add 2-3 everyday players and a pitcher with the upside to match the guy you are giving up the gamble you are taking is that guy will never live up to those expectations, hopefully the contributions you are getting from those 2-3 players in 150+ games outweigh the step back you take in the 33 games that you replace that ace. The White Sox are in danger of becoming what the Mariners have been, you have one really great SP, one really good position players and not much support beyond that. I am not trying to advocate that he be traded no matter what, but if there is an offer that can correct a team in a hurry its needs to be considered. One great pitcher does not a world series team make, other wise Kershaw and King Felix would be dueling it out every year.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:18 PM) Rule-5 gets more attention but when is the last time we got a good player that way? Can't remember. We picked up Jenks and DeAza with waiver claims. Seattle's roster is at 39 & will be 40 after Cano with them still out there trying to give their money to everyone. They have some bust types, maybe a few players that aren't good enough for their roster but good enough for ours. Maybe they cut someone loose. Any team for that matter that is close to or has a full 40 may need to make some decisions on players, especially contenders with strong farm systems who can't afford to lose any space. We hardly ever make a pick, so the last time we got a quality player is pretty irrelevant. There are not a ton of really good guys in the draft, which is why they are exposed. But it is a chance to get a reclamation project (Colvin) or an international player that has taken longer to develop (Hernandez, Perez) and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) Right, but that someone would probably not come up right away, leaving what I said as our 2014/15 rotation Do you really need a #1 for next season? It should be more about finding out what guys are legit ML pitchers. The rotation should give opportunities for Rienzo, Johnson, and maybe Floyd to show what they have. If you are getting Walker or Bradley back they should be more than ready for 2015.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) Is there a list of players in the Rule 5 draft anywhere currently? This is not a complete list, but a breakdown of some intriguing players by BA. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/rule...names-to-watch/

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 03:52 PM) I agree, there's no reason to carry a backup 1b on this roster for Abreu when Dunn can be the emergency fill-in. Abreu should be pushed past 150 games this year. Seriously though, compare the two situations. We're so worried about backups for 1b for some reason that we have 4 different guys on the roster who can backup 1b (5 if you count Flowers). And I think that's a great illustration of why I'm still convinced this takes away a bunch of playing time from Abreu and hurts the roster. For a guy who you are depending on being a long term cornerstone of your franchise, he needs to be handled with kid gloves and eased into everything as accommodates and acclimates. If the Sox push him and ruin him as they are prone to do, that is a big investment wasted. This is not a world series team, no need to push anything, just make sure that we are getting a good foundation for the roster for the next six years.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) Either a trade or an indication that they are definitely planning on targeting a several guys in Rule 5. Which would be strange because C is really the only position this team needs to fill in a Rule 5 scenario. Still think that they could grab a arm for the bullpen like Colvin or Lewis and try to fix him. The team needs talent and rolling the dice on guys like that has little risk and the rewards, especially in Colvins case, could be huge. edit: Marco Hernandez is another guy that could make the team in a similar role to what people expect from Garcia.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 04:02 PM) I still don't like how our rotation would look if Sale were traded. I wouldn't want Jose Q as a #1. Same goes for Danks, Santiago, and Johnson. You would have to get someone with ace potential in return. It is a gamble, but you plug a lot of other holes by making that gamble.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 02:38 PM) Here's a scenario: -Sox want 3 lefty, 2 righty rotation with Sale at the top, Q as a 3, X lefty as a 5 -Two trade options present themselves: 1 we deal Santiago away and pick up a really good looking MLB-ready or close prospect or else we get a young MLB player; 2nd scenario we get a decent looking reliever and/or UT prospect from another team that agrees to take on all Danks salary in the belief that Danks will return to near 100% prior effectiveness and they are getting a steal Which option do you take? Immediate salary relief + potential small piece with Hector in a guaranteed spot, or do you eat the money, deal Hector for another young piece that you believe can help now? I am not trading Danks at all unless someone gives me a Garza type deal. Their career numbers were similar before the injury but he is signed long term at a seemingly reasonable contract. If he doesn't bounce back this season the way I think he will, thats when I would start to consider a mitigation strategy. Trading him now is giving him up when his value is the lowest its ever been (or will be IMO) so it doesn't make any sense. You don't get value selling low, thats why Sale, Quitana, and Santiago are all trade chips as their respective values will never be higher.

From MLBTR "The Phillies are willing to listen on Domonic Brown, but a rumored Brown-for-Jose Bautista swap isn't happening, tweets Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com." Not sure what it would take and how his defensive issues would be any better here.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) I really doubt they Sox would do that considering they have been unable to dump him on another team without them giving up a draft pick. I couldn't envision much of a market for an aging DH only player. Granderson's about what Dunn is at the plate, he does provide more defensively, but Dunn is a little better offensively. I can see a team handing Dunn a multi year deal next season, its probably worth the risk. If he accepts your offer you get a guy that can put up 40 HR's for 1/$15M.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:57 AM) Well Gary Sanchez too, but that's just not happening. I am not convinced that Sanchez isn't Montero all over again, over hyped because of the organization he is in, but a bat that wont play at any other position and a glove that wont let him stay behind the plate.

QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Especially four year 60 million. 15 million a year?? No thank you I thought he would probably get 16 the way things have been going. On the bright side, I think the Sox can make an offer to Dunn next year and pick up another draft pick unless he plays the whole season the way he started last year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) Aren't most of the Sox better position prospects middle infielders? Yes, but none are really locks to be ML regulars. This farm system is not very good yet.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) with seattle signing cano. there is a big log jam in their infield. Maybe we could sweep in and get one. all 3 of these guys bat left handed. dusitn ackley 2B. also has experience in CF nick frnaklin SS/2B. a good prospect for them. has good speed. brad miller SS. played last year and showed good promise. maybe we could move beckham to 3B? but we would be getting a LH bat. I would love to see a move where we picked up Seager and Ackley. Ackley's value is in the toliet, but I think he is worth taking a flyer on. We could send Beckham back to play 3B and they could keep Miller at SS and use Franklin as a 2B/SS/3B. Ackley can play both LF and 2B, where ever the Sox have a hole depending on Semien/Viciedo/Dunn.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) Finally, I agree with Phil Rogers. https://twitter.com/philgrogers/status/408999694371549184 Alexei makes a lot of sense for the Yankees. But watch them get Brandon Phillips. Not sure what they would give up would be benefirial to the Sox. If it were for Campos, it would be a good move, other than that their prospects are pretty meh.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:49 AM) Then we can talk about trading him in 2 years. When he is less valuable? Its diminishing returns from here on out. He has established what he is and only gets more expensive from this point forward.

Sounds like after everyone cooled down, talks with the Mariners are back on.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) For the White Sox? You would give up a 2nd round pick for 1 year of Cano? Give up a second round pick this year for a first rounder next year, or the possibility for trading him at the break for something more valuable.

At this point I would take him on a 1 year deal.

Per MLB trade rumors, Mariners went to 9/$225; Jay-Z insisted on 10/$252, and now the Mariners pulled their offer.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 11:48 PM) All other things aside, if a trade were to happen with Sale this offseason, you would have to think it would be with Arizona. I know Hahn said he never would but if he's full of it, AZ is the best fit. If they did Bradley, Owings, Davidson, Trahan and Pollock...Consider what we would be going into 2015 with. 2B Semien SS Owings RF Garcia 1B Abreu DH Some LH guy LF Viciedo 3B Davidson CF Pollock C Someone SP Bradley SP Quintana SP Johnson SP Santiago SP Danks Plus, with Dunn and Alexei coming off the books our only decent salaries would Abreu and Danks. We could sign someone like Victor Martinez for DH and use prospects to get a catcher. We would have a team full of young potential talent with a wide open payroll. I love Sale as much as anyone but if he blows out his elbow the FO would be kicking themselves if they passed on something like that. What's the saying, strike when the iron's hot? If you move Sale you need to SP's back IMO. For the dbacks, something like Bradley, Skaggs, Davidson and either Eaton or Parra. Could include a Ramirez for Gregorious swap in there as well.