harfman77

2016 Lineup C Nieto (S) 1B JDA ® 2B Sanchez (S) SS Semien ® 3B Davidson ® RF Garcia ® CF Johnson (L) LF Eaton (L) DH Viciedo ® UTL L Garcia (S) C Phegley © IF Wilkins OF Mitchell/FA SP Sale SP Quitana SP Johnson SP Danks SP Beck CP Webb RP Jones RP Snodgress RP Petricka RP Goldberg RP Wheeler

An interesting team to watch will be the Mariners as they will be signing two more guys, Rodney and Cruz, and have some pretty intriguing names on their 40 man roster when the time comes to make room for their new additions. And they are as likely a destination for ADA as anyplace else.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 7, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) I just don't see the point in sending Erik Johnson to AAA. He dominated both AA and AAA last year through 142 innings. He really has nothing more to prove in the minors and because the Sox aren't expected to contend this year, there is no reason not to give him a shot. I really see no point in paying somebody like Burnett or Arroyo $10 million to pitch for a non contending team while taking innings away from a pitcher who is expected to be a part of our future. Let Johnson start this year and take the bumps that are going to come during a rookie season. Then in 2015 or 2016 when the Sox are ready to contend, he will have that valuable experience from 2014 and hopefully will be ready to be a starting pitcher for a contending team. He only had 57 innings at AAA last season, and personally I would like to see a guy start the year off dominating and then get moved up rather than starting off in the majors. If we were in win now mode, you would throw in him the rotation, but ideally I would like to see him log 100 innings in AAA (43 more this season) before making the jump, which would put him in Chicago about the beginning of June. I really think it is imperative that we handle the young core carefully and let them taste success before moving them up. I definitely would not pay them $10M, I would give them $5-6M on a one year deal, if you can't make that deal, you don't sign one of them.

I would be for signing a veteran FA pitcher to fill the mentor role that Tim Hudson did with the young Braves staff. I also think that EJ should start in AAA to get more innings in there before be promoted full time, there is really no hurry. Somebody like a Jake Westbrook, Arroyo, Harang, or Burnett. I dont anticipate they would be much more than a fifth starter, but they could help Coop in the development on the young staff.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 07:51 PM) Well it should help their cause that they will get two picks in rounds 1b and 2 (Grandy and Cano) According to the MLB site, their first pick is #56 in the second round and their next pick is #92. They forfeited their comp round picks by signing Ellsbury and Beltran. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2014/order.jsp

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) MLB built this system so that there was that loophole, with a huge luxury tax and a major limit on what the teams could do the next year. If a team like the Yankees wants to go all-in on several guys this year, they can legally do it but they pay 2x the cost and they effectively sign no one internationally the next year. How would we like it if we sat out an entire year internationally? That doesn't sound too useful. We sat out most years internationally....j/k I just think it sucks the year that the Sox have a big bonus to spend the Yankees are planning to swoop in and sign everyone they can. If the Yankees can sign one high profile guy this year and next within the system, wouldn't it be better just to sign 4-5 this season and take next year off? Especially if the group this year is better as indicated in the article. The Yankees are planning on spending twice their bonus on a guy that, within the system, only the Sox, Astros, Marlins, and Twins should be able to afford (Cubs broke spending cap last year). Its a loophole, and it violates the spirit of the rule. They dont sit out the next season either, they are restricted to a max deal of $250K per player, which is more than the Sox traditionally spent before the new system was in place. Sign me up for Bryan Pena, the system needs all the LH bats it can get.

According to BA, here are the penalties for going over your budget this season: • 0-5 percent over pool: 75 percent tax on the pool overage. • 5-10 percent over pool: 75 percent tax on the pool overage. Team won’t be allowed to sign a player for more than $500,000 during the 2014-15 signing period. • 10-15 percent over pool: 100 percent tax on the pool overage. Team won’t be allowed to sign a player for more than $500,000 during the 2014-15 signing period. • 15 percent or more over pool: 100 percent tax on the pool overage. Team won’t be allowed to sign a player for more than $250,000 during the 2014-15 signing period The Sox should have about $3.5M this year to spend while the Yanks should have about $1.6M. From the article sounds like they are going to double that on one player, so it will be interesting to see how MLB reacts.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) I like how I believed the Yanks were serious in staying underneath luxury max. I think they were, until they missed the playoffs, now they just say f*** it and throw money at the problem. They are in for a tough run here with a lot of guys that are underperforming their contracts or will underperform them along the way. The Tanaka signing will be a bad deal for them, because by the time they are able to compete again, he will opt out.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) Interesting that the top player is expected to be a catcher. They are listed by position, according to the article, Dermis Garcia (SS-3B) is the top guy and is expected to sign with the Yanks for $3M+. Article also says that Yanks plan on spending $10M+ this summer in free agency. Not sure what the level of penalty is they receive for that, but that seems a bit extreme as they are likely to be allotted around $3M total.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) The problem with the core is there is going to be a gap before they get any more help from the minors. Quintana is going to have to be sacrificed to supplement the holes. No, it will be the opposite, the help from the minors will be traded to supplement the big league roster and allow the core to remain intact.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:59 AM) Abreu Age 27 Semien Age 24 Davidson Age 23 Viciedo Age 25 Eaton Age 25 Garcia Age 23 Sale Age 25 Quintana Age 24 Johnson Age 24 Add the #3 pick to it, but is this core good enough that they won't have to deal anyone from it to get better? The only reinforcements otherwise will have to come via free agency because there isn't much in the minors Thats pretty solid, it is really too early too tell how good that group can be because they are all relatively unknown with a lot of questions. Abreu - Is he the hitter that most think or will he struggle to adapt to MLB? Semien - Is he a utility player or a bona fide every day guy? Davidson - Can he hit enough to make his power play? Viciedo - Which guy are you getting? Two years ago his power was impressive, last season he struggled with power but hit righties better Eaton - Have the injuries derailed him? Is he a LH Aaron Rowand? Garcia - Can he develop his tools or will he be just a guy? Sale - Can he stay healthy? Quintana Can he remain consistent? Johnson Will his stuff play in the majors? Also Danks (28) - Can he get back to form after surgery? Sanchez - Can he rebound and put everything together? Some of these will be positive answers, some negative, the good thing is there is more in the minors than there has been in the last decade, so when there are holes, Hahn will have the resources to go out and trade for guys to fill the gaps.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) Can we issue a moratorium on any more threads of this variety? This is what you will get until there is real news to talk about.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 03:45 PM) Oh boy, here we go again. If you want to put Dunn on waivers to see if a team claims him and his salary like Toronto did with Rios, I can see that. If you find a team willing to trade a prospect for Dunn, I can see that. If you hope Dunn hits well enough to be traded come June/July, I can see that. If you want to offer a bit of money in a trade for another teams prospect, I can see that. What I can't see is paying Dunn's entire salary while he plays for another team. This makes zero sense whatsoever. If he was blocking a young baseball mashing prospect that was destined for 1B/DH then maybe I could see that but its not the case. We've already put up with Dunn for 3 of the 4 years on his contract so I think if we have to we can put up with one more season. With the current state of the Sox, there are more important issues than Adam Dunn. Just to offer another point of view here. It wouldn't surprise me if Dunn turned out to be the classic case of a slugger that hit well in the last year of his contract before hitting free agency. Who knows, maybe the Sox contend long enough to put more butts in the seats because of it. I am hoping that the Sox make him a QO at the end of the year and he declines. The Sox get a solid prospect for him and dont have a power vaccum from the LH side of the plate this year. I understand that the scenario is unlikely, but its probably not impossible that Dunn will be looking for multiple years instead of one. I could see a team give him a 3/$16-18M next winter. The Twins for instance are going to be starved for power, have a hole at DH and their 1st pick will (most likely) be protected. Anyway, that is what I hope.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 29, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) Adam Eaton being stuck in the minors to keep his service time down would frankly be a cheap, bush-league move. This is a guy who already earned a big league starting OF spot last year for a team. He gets hurt, sure he can go to the minors, but this is a 25 year old who has done his time. He only played 60 games last year in the majors, mostly due to injuries. When he did play he was more of a fourth OF splitting time between LF and CF backing up Kubel and Pollock. His slash line was .252/.314/.360, so he wasn't really humming along either. If they can't trade De Aza before the season, I don't see any negative to starting Eaton with Davidson, Semien, and Sanchez in AAA until you can deal off guys and open places for them to play. These deals were not made to win a WS this season, but to contend for the next 5 years after this season. I agree sticking him down just to keep service time down would be bush league, but if it is the long term interest to further his development and build value in Viciedo or De Aza for a deal, keeping his time down is a happy consequence not a reason for making the move.

Isn't it possible that De Aza opens the season as the starting CF? The Sox could get Eaton warmed up in Charlotte while showcasing De Aza for a trade in June. It keeps Eaton's service time down and allows the Sox to market their assets in the outfield. Plus you get your young core of Semien, Eaton, Davidson, and Sanchez playing together everyday.

CF Eaton SS Ramirez DH Dunn/Konerko RF Garcia 1B JDA LF ADA/Viciedo 2B Beckham 3B Gillaspie/Keppinger C Flowers Bench Konerko ADA Keppinger Nieto Start JDA lower in the order to let him acclimate while giving Avi some better pitches to hit.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) That is an entirely different dynamic that I didn't even get into. What you are saying here doesn't disagree with what I said. It points out another dynamic - signability and use of bonus money. That is seperate from pitcher vs position player, which is what I was posting about. peace

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) You cannot force yourself to take a pitcher simply because your system has historically been better at developing them. You also do not draft position players (at least in the first 10 rounds) simply because the system lacks them. These are both horrible pieces of logic to follow, and the Sox won't. First of all, the "system" is not static. The scouts, coaches, etc. have all undergone a lot of changes the past couple years. So the historical track record means little. Second, if you decide to focus your draft on pitchers because you think you are better at developing them, you artificially and unnecessarily cut down your talent pool by MORE THAN HALF, which is idiotic. You are intentionally cutting down the value you get in the draft. That makes no sense. Third, if anyone thinks the Sox aren't aware of their lack of success getting position players to the majors, you are deluding yourself. They know, and they've made changes, and will keep making changes. Fourth, drafting for organizational in baseball is nonsensical for the simple reason that it takes years to develop players for MLB. You don't know what you will need on the MLB team in 2-4 years, so you can't draft to MLB needs. Sure, you fill in org gaps in the later rounds, say 21-40. The Sox will take the best player available in the first, and at least through the 10th or so, because that is the only smart way to go about it. I disagree with this, you will see many teams take signable org guys in rounds 3, 4, and 5 and use the savings their to go after a guy that slipped. And conversely people stop drafting the best player available after the first round and take best player available that we can actually sign. There is definitely more strategy than just going down the board of how you ranked players going into the draft.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 01:09 PM) Agree that this would be a bad idea. Disappointing that they are even considering it. If you grade players 2-10 similarly, what is the harm in taking the guy who you can sign? If it means getting Toussaint instead of Kolek, but being able to spend money later on to sign someone like Kodi Medeiros in the second round and Jeren Kendall in the third round by offering overslot money? You go from having one first round pick to potentially three and by taking a guy that you have evaluated to be a similar talent. It is just good business and is a great way to add additional talent to the system with no extra cost. If you see a clear difference, you take the guy that is rated above, but if it is a cluster from 2-10 as it appears to be, make the move that gets the system more talent QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 05:37 PM) This is a huge a mistake they need draft a position player, so they can build this new core of White Sox hitters (Courtney Hawkins, Micker Zapata, Tim Anderson, etc) QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 05:37 PM) This is a huge a mistake they need draft a position player, so they can build this new core of White Sox hitters (Courtney Hawkins, Micker Zapata, Tim Anderson, etc) You mean like Jared Mitchell, Keenyn Walker, Trace Thompson, Barnum, Phegley and Beckham? They have drafted plenty of position players but have a much better track record evaluating and developing pitchers. Since the Sox have been relatively successful at developing pitching, they were able to take assets (Peavy, Santiago and, Reed) and transform them into prospects to fill positions of need. Saying that you have to take a position player just isnt true. Sure there are some guys that might makes sense there, but to exclude pitching, which is projected to be the strength of the top of the draft, is selling the team short. Rodon is a consensus number one right now, after that there is only one position player ranked in the top 5 and three in the top 10.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) We might see De Aza traded, but I get the feeling we are pretty much done for the winter. I am not sure about that, I think the market has moved really slowly since the winter meetings as things were being held up by the Tanaka signing. Now that he signs, FA will pick up again and the teams that aren't able to fill their holes will look to the trade market.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) You're better than this Balta. Last year is going to be one of Quintana's best seasons if not his best. Bailey bettered him in FIP, K/9, BB/9, IP (in less starts), GB%. Homer Bailey's stuff is close to top 10 in the MLB for starters. Quintana's stuff is 3-4 material. Let's remain objective when comparing our own players with others. Homer Bailey did not spend a full year in the majors until he was 26 in 2012. Q did it at 24 and put up better numbers. So yes, lets be objective when comparing players. Q's numbers are very comparable despite playing in the tougher league. Bailey is fine for what he is, but it makes no sense to trade a pitcher that is cost controlled so that you can sign his higher priced, older, right handed equivalent. If you want to trade pitching to improve the roster, trade prospects or guys that are no longer cost controlled. Danks could be a candidate to be traded at the deadline if he rebounds from his surgery this year as some expect. Before his surgery his numbers were basically the LH equivalent of Matt Garza, so if he can get back to that level, he will definitely have value.

This seemed inevitable, the Yankees just made too much sense. Unfortunately for them, their offense is bound for a downward spiral. Its a great deal for Tanaka as he gets a huge financial commitment with no risk to himself.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) Guessing, false info, the internet. Pick your poison. The Sox have heard jack s***, so I assume everyone else is in the same boat. Or he just has zero interest in the Sox so they haven't kept in touch. The teams that make the most sense in my mind are the Yanks, Mariners, and Cubs. Yanks have the culture, market, money and winning tradition. Mariners have the culture, money, and geography. Cubs have market, money, and more money.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) I agree with that and I am fan of Garza who isn't even going to require draft pick compensation. To me the plan is simple. It's wait and see approach. Hope that Sale and Quintana stay the same if not get better. Hope Erik Johnson mirrors Gavin Floyd numbers with a strong head on his shoulders. Hope John Danks regresses to his pre 5 year contract/pre shoulder surgery form. Give opportunities to Rienzo/Paulino/Surkamp and hope that Cooper can make another starter out of at least one of them. If all goes well we may be in the position to move a Quintana or Danks next offseason and look at a Bailey/Shields type to pair up with Sale. That doesn't make any sense, you are going to trade a SP so that you can sign a more expensive SP that may very well play worse in your park than your existing options? There is not a guy on the Sox I would not trade tomorrow for the right package of players, but moving a guy to replace him with a more expensive replacement is not a path to long term success.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Davidson is your 3B. Catcher is your last remaining hole if they signed Tanaka. I dont think you want to experiment with Davidson if you are trying to win now. He is a guy that you can bring along in a rebuild, but not a guy you would want out there everyday if you are trying to compete at this point.