dagotony06

We're grooming him to take Buerhle's spot in the rotation. He is young and cheap.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) It's nowhere near as bad as trading Wilson Alvarez and Roberto Hernandez at the deadline in '97. Yep I think that it was orchestrated by both. If the Sox aren't interested in keeping Mark around, I don't believe Reinsdorf's alleged refusal to allow a trading partner to negotiate with Mark until free agency. Mark agreeing to VERY reasonable, un-Zito-like money now will make him more attractive to a team like the Mets would need him now AND want him for the long-term. The Sox could get a lot more in return. People were saying the same things about Blackjack and Alex Fernandez a decade ago. How did their careers pan out after leaving the Sox? Sox fans survived the Strike and the White Flag Trade. This is nothing in comparison. My point is this. You already took a risk, a huge one, in giving a 35 year old a 3 year extension, so by the time his deal is up hell be 38. Now keep in mind, nobody really knows how old JC is, so it's even a greater risk, plus he is a power pitcher and he is right handed. There should be nowhere near the risk when it comes to giving MB a 4year deal. He is 28, in 4 years he will be 32, he is left handed, a finesse pitcher, who has made every start in his career. Has been a stand up guy his whole time in a Whitesox unform. Plus you might as wel kiss 27 year old JG goodbye, cause he's gonna want the same kind of deal. To me this is unacceptable as a fan who supports this team, and has for the 36 years. Give MB his NTC and rebuild your rotation around MB and JG, not JC and JV!!!

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:39 PM) And it makes it about 99 pct likely that Jon Garland is gone after this year as well. Which is also a damn shame. So instead of having an anchor of MB and JG signed to go along with JV,Danks, and Floyd as a possible future rotation, you are gonna have JV, JC, Danks, Floyd and Gio and if by chance he gets rid of JC which I hope he does then maybe Broadway would be put into the rotation. I'm not sure about anyone else but I would rather have the rotation with MB and JG, over the other possible one. But JR and KW will be happy Cause it will be cheap, and no longterm deals. The future of this franchise sure is dark. VERY DARK!!! Support from a friend: Jon Garland seemed a bit perplexed on Thursday in regard to the numerous issues emanating from contractual discussions surrounding his friend and teammate. These are issues that could apply to Garland when he becomes a free agent after the 2008 season. For starters, Garland had a hard time figuring out a somewhat unwritten White Sox rule to not give pitchers more than three-year deals. "The whole policy kind of gets me because you hear teams say pitching and defense is what will get you there but they shied away from the long-term deal on pitchers," Garland said. "It kind of defeats what you are after in the first place." Garland understood the theory of how it's tough to project certain pitchers' health and success rate out over a fourth or fifth year, let alone the second year of a contract. But, he also pointed to Buehrle's track record of six straight years with at least 200 innings and 12 victories as worth the risk. "I think the guy deserves it," said Garland of Buehrle. "I think he will deserve everything he gets, whether it be here or with another team. He has earned it. "Since he has been in the league, I don't think he's missed a day. Every time he steps on that field, everyone in the ballpark knows his team probably has a better chance to win that game. It's kind of hard to argue that fact."

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) Buehrle would have been guaranteed about $30M more than Contreras with no way of ridding yourself of Mark's contract if something does happen to him unlike with Jose. In my eyes he is worth every penny and then some. I just believe not signing him is a big mistake, and is gonna send the wrong message to the fans and to the players on this team and future players for this team. There is no loyalty in my eyes.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:59 PM) ] IIRC, Paulie doesn't have a NTC that goes throughout the duration of his contract. Pitchers are also much more subject to career-ending injuries than position players. I'm not getting the point you are trying to make? So just cause Paulie doesn't have a NTC and he blows out a knee, or better yet his hip starts really becoming a problem, do you think he will have any trade value anyway?? NTC in contracts don't mean s***. Most players who have them, usually waive them if the team really wants them gone. Take Jose for instance. He said he would waive his if the team asked him to. For starters, they have still have $56 million to spend on lower-risk investments. They wouldn't spend it, because no one is gonna be showing up at the park once they get rid of Buerhle, and JG follows him next year. We will have a rotation of JV,JC,Danks Gavin Floyd, who is nothing but a minor league all star and that's about it, he did the same thing when he was in Philly. He's a great pitcher as long as he is in the minors. And we will have Gio!!! I can't forget about that can't miss prospect!! Good grief!! We will be back to drawing about 15-16 thousand a game, so we shouldn't worry about spending that 56 million we would save from signing MB. I don't disagree. But, again, it's very easy to see why the ownership is hesitant to do this. Historically, the vast majority of $50+ million deals given to veteran pitchers haven't worked out well. We just gave a 35 year old a 3 year extension, now keep in mind that we dont' know how old this guy really is, but we had no problem giving him an extenison with an NTC, albeit only for the first year I believe, which he said he would waive, and you want me to believe that giving a 4 year deal worth 56mil. to a guy who has never had anything wrong with him, has been as solid as they come on and off the field, is more of a risk, than giving a supposedly 35 year old a 3 year extension. I'm not buying it. Not one bit. This reaks of JR coming off as cheap once again. They spend money foolishly. They give JC and JV extensions, but they are gonna let the face of the Org. walk because of a NTC, give me a f***ing break. And JG won't be too far behind him. I thought KW and Ozzie stressed pitching and defense wins championships!! Well pitching is your first line of defense, but we are gonna let one of the best ones in the game walk because f a NTC. They stress the importance of pitching, but yet they plan on building a pitching staff around the back end of our rptation in JC and JV. Inf***ingcredible!!!

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) So if KW and JR give in and give Mark what he wants, what if Mark blows out his shoulder in September and his performance diminishes afterwards? They would have a very difficult time recouping even a tiny fraction of their $55-60 million investment. I'm not saying that Mark's NTC demand is unreasonable, but you need to take off your fan glasses and look at this through the ownership's perspective. How have high-tier veteran pitchers performed after signing big four- and five-year contracts recently? What happened the last time that the Sox give a veteran pitcher one of those big four-year deals? What would've happened if JR had allowed Schueler to give Blackjack, Fernandez, and Alvarez deals like that back in the mid-90's. From what they've seen around the league recently and experienced personally, their chances of getting their money's worth from the deal that Mark supposedly wants is very low. You risk that with every player that signs a contract. What if Konerko would have blown out his knee after signing the contract he signed. It's just part of the risk of signing players. What happens if you trade Buehrle for a can't miss prospect or two, and they blow their arms out the first year they are with us, and Buerhle goes on and pitches another 12 years without a problem. It's all a gamble if you look at it that way. But I would rather gamble on a guy who has been pretty consistent is whole time here. he's not a power pitcher, he is a finesse pitcher, ala Glavine. 4 years at 14 mil. a year is a bargain, give the guy his NTC and be done with it.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) Can we please put this to rest? I recall Aaron Rowand diving for a flyball that turned into a double during a huge rally (4 doubles off of Jenks) by the Indians during a critical September series. How many teams would say the berak went their way when they throw a one hitter but lose 1-0? We got every break that we needed to win. Not every single break of every game, cause then we wwould have went 173-0. I'm talking about lucky breaks in general. I also pointed out that our pitching was the reason we won, and MB was part of that. So to not sign him to a very reasonable contract 14 mil. a year, just because we won't give him a no trade clause is complete bulls***. Reward the guy for what he did for you. Show some damn allegiance to your players, players that helped you win that World series. Players that are in their prime,MB and JG, you build around guys like that. You don't ship them off for prospects, which will probably never amount to anything near than what you have now in mB, and soon JG.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) Last time he rebuilt the team, we won the World Series. 16 players on our postseason roster had been aquired within 1 year of 2005. Granted, rebuilding a team with prospects instead of veterans will prove way more difficult. Unfortunately, we are going nowhere with this core of players. Seems like we do not have a choice. Some of our favorite/most talented players will have to be sacrificed. Based on reports, KW has been asking for teams' top 2 prospects for Buehrle, which is exactly what needs to happen. No 'projects' for a pitcher of Buehrle's caliber. Everyone here will probably agree that 2005 was a special year and a lucky one also. We got every break and took advantage of every break we got. KW put that team together and luckily caught lightning in a bottle. Our Starting pitching was lights out, that's why we won. To me it would be important to keep intact at least 2/5ths of that rotation, in JG and MB. They are 2 guys you should build around. Instead the Org. chooses to build around JV a headcase, and JC an old man, and Danks, who hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Prospects are just that, prospects. With MB you know what you are gonna get every 5th day. With JG also. Lock these guys up. If you are gonna trade anyone trade, JV and JC. Get whatever you can for them, but why would you rid yourself of a guy that came up with your Org. They might as well go ahead and listen for offers from JG, because the same s*** is gonna happen next year. I really doubt he will stick around especially after the way they treated his buddie. This Org. is just plain old ass backward. As far as you saying we don't have a choice since we are going nowhere with our core players, well we wouldn't have to worry about it, if we had a farm system that produced a couple of prospects every now and then. That's just another area of this Org. that is totally f***ed up. We have a farm system that can't produce even a average postion player. I was frustrated with this whole Org. before this fiasco with Buerhle, now I'm just fed up.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) After sleeping on it, I'm really not all that upset at all. As long as KW can get a nice haul in a deal for Buehrle I'll be fine with it. Well I have a feeling KW is gonna f*** up royally. I have zero confidence in his smugass to do anything to help this team anymore. To me he is a walking clusterf***.

This was all bulls*** to begin with. All these so called talks and the everything else was all bulls***. They never had any intention on signing the guy, it was all a PR move that blew up in their face, and should cost KW his f***ing job. This org. is so poorly run it is pathetic.

Someone help me understand this. We won't give a 5 year contract to a 28 year old (Buehrle) who has been our Ace for the last 6 years, But we will gave a guy who is supposedly 35 (JC) and has been about a .500 pitcher for us, a 3 year extension,and we give another 3 year extension to a guy who is gonna be 31 (JV) and who is a mental midget who isn't even a career .500 pitcher. And next year we will be going through all this again cause JG who is only 27, is gonna be in his contract year, and he's gonna want a 5 year deal. I would think an organization would want to build a staff around the young guys who have proven they are winners. To me this organization is just ass backwards. We are trying to build a staff around the backend of our rotation instead of the front. It just doesn't make much sense to me at all.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 10:17 PM) Mr. Reinsdorf is a business man. And if we go from 50+ sellouts to a sea of empty seats in two years, I don't he will endorse KW any longer. The Bulls still sold some tickets during the dry years. The Cell will be empty is dry years are coming. I hope he wouldn't, but if people don't show up, he won't spend the money. That's how it's been. All I'm saying is KW has 2 years left, that maybe too long. He can do alot of damge in 2 years.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) KW only has two years on his contract. Then maybe the return of Dombrowski I have a feeling KW is gonna be the Jerry Krause of baseball. We saw what Krause did with the Bulls after they dismantled that team. I think that is what we are gonna get with KW.

It's all been bulls***. This whole f***ing situation has been nothing but bulls***. I have no faith in KW if we go into a full rebuilding mode. Which is what we need to do.

This was all a setup by KW and JR. Now they can make MB look greedy, and show that he doesn't really mean what he says about wanting to stay in Chicago. It's typical Whitesox, before it's all over this will be a bad breakup, just like Big Frank and Maggs. Mark my words. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 09:41 PM) If this was KW's plan, it's going to backfire on him big time. I had a feeling this might be happening when they made it public that Hahn was going to Tampa. I agree.

I think all this speculation about trade talks was bulls***. It was just for the fans, to show that KW and JR tried to sign MB, and now we will part ways, and paint MB to be the greedy money hungry athlete. Typical Whitesox.

Even if we trade Buerhle, I still want The Count gone. I don't care if we get a bag of balls for him, get rid of his contract.

I'd trade The Count too. Get rid of that contract he has for 2 more years.

I think the Royals have a brighter future than we do. At least they have some young talented players that show life and have energy!!

Glad to see the KONERKO SUICIDE SHRUG is back tonight.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) But I'm saying the game wa slost by then because of the offense. You manage differently when the game is already over. Down by 2 is alot easier to overcome than being down by 5. But I understand what you are saying, the offense has been terrible. I wouldn't have brought Jose out for the 7th inning though. He went 6 and only gave up 3 runs, let the bullpen take over from there.

It is Ozzie, he left the guy out there too long. He should have went to the bullpen for the 7th inning. Especially if you are looking to trade the guy. QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 29, 2007 -> 09:12 PM) It isn't Ozzie. It's all about the offense. Can't you see that? We had over 9 hits a game each game in Tampa and won them all. We hit we win. This game was all about our bats. The offense is terrible to by the way. I'm just saying Ozzie f***ed this inning all up

Ozzie you just f***ing amaze me with your managing. How the f*** we ever won a World series with this f***ing guy as manager is beyond me!!!!

Just more assinine managing by our brilliant manager!!! If I was Mark I think I would reconsider playing for this team another 4 years!!