dagotony06

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 10:13 PM) Guilllen speaks about Pods....they better not even think about bringing him back next year. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines I'm going out on a limb and saying KW brings this guy back just because he is gonna be a cheap option. I hope I am wrong though.

Teddy Greenstein made a good point on CTL, it's time for the Whitesox to start offering full no trade clauses to cetain special players. You don't have to offer it to everyone, just players that are worthy of it, especially one that is taking such a big discount. I agree with him 100%. I think the Org. needs to change the way they do business regarding NTC's. It's part of the game now. I'm not saying every player, but special players. Big time FA's. Most of the time when you hear a player has a NTC, usually they waive it if the teams asks them to. So I would give Mb the full NTC, and then KW can get on with whatever trades he has planned. You don't want to let this linger too long, cause if they fail to sign MB soon, teams are gonna know we can't sign him, and they aren't gonna offer as much as they would have earlier. It's time to either sign this guy, or trade him.

I certainly hope it doesn't drag out that long. I really want to see JC moved out of here. That's the main guy I would love to see KW move, just to get rid of that contract. I'm sure he has some value to an NL team, so hopefully KW can get something done. I don't like that he said int he paper today that he is waiting for this MB situation to get resolved before moving anyone else.

Buster Olney was just on ESPN and said he talked with MB's agent a few hours ago, and said Mark is giving the Whitesox a huge hometown discount at 4/56, and that he wants a full no trade clause period. He said basically right now it's a staredown to who blinks first. I think this may drag out the rest of the month.

What a tough game to lose. Just when you think this team might be turning it around they come up with this. We desperatly need bullpen help. Leading 6-2 in the bottom of the 8th, with 2 out, and can't seal the deal. Damn!!! You score 6 runs in a game, you need to win that game no matter what. Damn!!

On a side note: PODS back on th DL

KW is on CTL, he said he is optimistic the MB will get signed. He said he regrets that so much of the contract has been made public, but it is what it is. He says that the NTC basically the only point in the contract that he wouldn't be protected by the NTC would be in the middle of the contract, maybe 18 months. But he says he is optimistic about him signing so I guess we are just gonna have to wait and see.

KW was just on Channel 7, saying that he is hopeful a deal can be reached. He said he wishes that it wouldn't have become public, but he understands that it has and that he is gonna have to answer questions about it. He said Buerhle's camp wants to get the deal done and so does the SOX.

QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) Diego don't take it so hard. I agree with your thoughts and people here are just blowin ya s***. Welcome to soxtalk, LOL! Thanks LV I'm not taking it hard bro. I was just wanting everyone to know who I was disagreeing today with, that even though we disagree, I still respect what their opinions are. I know sometimes I may come across as a know it all, or my opinion is right and everyone else's is wrong, at least that's what my friends say. I'm not like that at all, and sometimes I swear a little too much also.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 04:09 PM) No, people just don't like to hear it 20 times in the same thread. Seriously, if you're THAT fed up with the Sox front office, go jump on the Red Sox bandwagon. Well I like my opinion to be heard I guess. I would never root for any other team than the Whitesox. It's been my team since birth. I just don't agree with alot of the decisions the front office makes. But I have grown to accept it. I'm just holding out hope something gets worked out with MB. I think we have had a pretty good discussion about this today, hope nobody was offended by any of my posts. Didn't mean to if I did. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion on this subject, and even if I don't agree with it, I still respect it. After all, we are all Whitesox fans, and just want to see the same thing, and that's Continued success and many World series Championships.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) Truth hurts!! People don't like to hear it I guess.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Well to be blunt to a degree then your eyes must only see part of the story. Just because the White Sox brass refuse a total no trade clause does not mean they refuse to lock up starting pitching. One does not equal the other. They extended all of these guys before. They extended Buehrle, and Vazquez, and Garland, and Contreras. They extended each and every one of them at one point. They extended Freddy Garcia right after they traded for him as well. So I'm not seeing where Kenny Williams (or Sox brass, whichever terminology is preferred) refuses to lock up starting pitching. It just isn't true. Heck I would like them to sign Buehrle and I see both sides, I clearly understand their position on this NTC (if in fact all this chatter is reality). Personally I believe there is still a compromise to be had here. Whether it happens is another story. He is locking up starting pitching. He is just locking it up from the wrong end in JV and JC. I would rather he start by locking up MB and JG first.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) Stop living in the past. The past is for cowards! I'm not living in the past. I refuse to support JR while he is still owner of the Bulls, how is that living in the past? I didn't agree with what he did and that's it.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) Good grief... not only was I crying from before the start of game 1... I think I was still a bit weapy at the parade. I'm with you. I don't think I will ever be over it. I was the same way, and though I will always look back with fond memories, I want more!!! Simple as that. And the way KW and JR are going about business with this MB situation, I don't see this Org. accomplishing that anytime in the near future.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) That's copied and pasted from elsewhere. What does it tell you that all of the MLB web sites look almost excatly the same? Perhaps that the Sox have minimal control over content? If you want to believe that Mark will gladly accept $70 million less than Zito because some anonymous source told the Trib so and because the story made it's way to MLB's news wire, go right ahead. I'm staying away from the Kool-Aid. Outside of Lamie Navarro, who was a complete disaster, how many huge contracts have Ron Schueler or Larry Himes given to veteran pitcher in his mid/late 20's? Do you understand now why your anger towards Kenny Williams over this issue is misplaced? If you want to get pissed off at somebody, direct your anger towards the Board of Directors because this is TYPICAL of what they've done for the past 20 years. Agreed about the drafts, but those trades to get Freddy, Jose, Danks, Vazquez, and Thome were far from "questionable." Well that was on their Website so I'm inclined to believe it. I believe if it was over money it would be reported, this way if the deal doesn't happen the fans won't be up in arms over in being over a reported no trade clause. I would think they would try to spin it as MB was asking for too much money, so fand would side with the ORG. or that he wanted to many years. So I believe the guy is gonna take a big discount to stay here. I believe he likes it here, and his insistence on a NTC Proves it to me. My anger towards KW is not only directed at him. I understand he represents JR and the Board, believe me I have anger towrds them as well. To this day I refuse to support the Bulls or anything related to the Bulls after JR dismantled that team and chased away MJ and Phil. So my anger is not only against KW. The way they do business by not signing pitchers to long term deals, which 4 years to me isn't long to begin with, their not signing big name free agents, isn't a good strategy. Especially being in a big market. That's just the way I look at it. As for the trades, Freddy was a good one as was Jose. I'm not yet about to annoit Danks, he hasn't proven much to me yet, he's looked good at times and he has struggled at times. Massett looked good in his one start, which I think he should be inn AAA doing instead of coming out of the pen. So I'm gonna wait and hold off on judging that trade. Vazquez, I'm not sure we needed him. I think he is one of those man crushes Kenny gets on players. He always wanted him and he finally got him. He is nothing special to me at all. The Thome trade I am torn at. We haven't won anything with him, so I'm not sure if that trade was that great. He has injury problems, and at the end of last year he really looked bad, and now this year he is really looking bad.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:34 PM) During his tenure Kenny Williams has never had a losing season. Thats pretty good in comparison to the other names you mentioned who had many seasons in their first years under .500. Blah, blah, blah??? The title was that meaningless to you? That quote really is the epitome of a fair-weather fan. I'm sure the most hardened pessimist on this board would never dimiss our 2005 season as Blah, blah,blah. I missed the press release where Kenny refused to do that? Nice of you to make that up, though. As for JC, he got a ONE YEAR NTC!!!! Not for the entire length of his deal, which is what Mark wants. It's been reported that Kenny has countered with that or a limited no-trade clause ala Paul. I will agree it's hard to find logic when you don't use the facts in your argument. Don't try to paint me as a fair weather fan cause I'm not. Never have been and never will be. If anything I'm too passionate about this team. I dismissed it as Blah blah blah, cause I know the argument I am gonna get from people when I argue about KW and why I don't believe he is a good GM. No one was happier we won in 05, but that was 2 years ago, and I'm over that. I still have good memories, but I don't live in the past, that's for cowards. So for you to say I said the title was meaningless, you are puuting words in chief. As for the press release, Kw refuses to give Buerhle a NTC. That's pretty common knowledge. So in my eyes he refuses to lock up good starting pitching. Oh you are right I forgot we did lock up the .500 pitcher in JV and the old man in JC. That's a great way to build a rotation. I forgot my bad!! I think if MB wants a full NTC he should get one period. He is taking less to stay here, he wants to be here. He is the type of guy you want to build a rotation around. Him and JG. But KW would rather build it around JV and JC!!

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:43 PM) It's minimally arguable that Mark is the ace of our staff. But a dominate ace in the rest of the league, even in the NL... that's an argument you're not likely to win. How can you say that he isn't a dominate ACE. Because he isn't a strikout pitcher, or a power pitcher?? I don't see how poeple don't consider this guy an ACE. The guy is a winner plain and simple.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) I'd say that you're the one drinking the Mark-agreed-to-a-deal-that-was-$50-$70-million-below-his-market-value Kool-Aid. (1) I'm not arguing that the Sox won't trade them. (2) The fact that you don't know who actually calls the shots in the front office shows that you have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, it was really stupid for the Sox to trade Miguel Olivo, Jeremy Reed, and Esteban Loaiza for two starting pitchers who helped us win the WS. The Sox would've been a Yankees-like Dynasty if they would've held onto the studs that their farm system has produced over the past five years! My God, your posts are terrible. From the Whitesox website, which would seem to be pretty credible to me "The two sides appear to have reached an impasse over the inclusion of a no-trade clause covering the entire four years of a reported $56 million deal" I also know that JR and his cronies call the shots, but also believe he gives his GM alot of control when it comes to signing players and listens to his advice. I never said it was stupid to trade for FG or JC. I'm saying our farm system is terrible because of our drafts that we have and, and some questionable trades.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:29 PM) For all you guys bashing Kenny Williams...you must not be old enough to have been a Sox fan in the '70's and '80's. Every year under KW we have had a chance and one time we won the WS....there are 30 teams trying for the WS...which means all things equal we should win once a generation. I respect your greed but...my dad waited 80 years for his first. I think we should be patient waiting for the second to develop. But god bless Kenny because I think he's NOT patient to wait and I think I see what he's doing. Having two dominant power pitchers leads to WS wins...Pedro/Schilling, Johnson/Schilling, Clemens/Cone (twice), Cone-Wells, Brown-Fernandez, and by the way...Santana and Liriano would have won it for the Twins last year if not the injury, same with Wood-Prior. So the Sox have Buehrle...a very good lefty...Glavine-esque. And Garland another non-strikeout guy that is great on a team with good offense/defense...but there is little history of two non-strikeout pitchers leading a team to the WS. When Sox won it was Contreas that was clearly the ace...and Garcia was a strikeout guy too. If I'm KW I don't try to emulate Atlanta with the long stretch of pennants...but try to find the formula to win the next WS. Vazquez, Danks, Floyd, Gio, De Los Santos, the lefty they drafted #1...he's trying to get us in a position to have the next Clemens/Cone. If he has to use Buehrle and/or Garland to get us that true dominant ace? Let's give it a shot. You have a dominant ace in Buerhle. Why do you feel the need to trade him for a power pitcher who in 6 years we will trade away anyway beacuse we won't give him over a 3 year deal. Power pitchers are way more likely to get injured than finesse pitchers like Buerhle and JG. Hey maybe we can trade for Prior and Wood, they are power pitchers and were considered to be potential ACE type pitchers!!!What's the point. For you to say you would rather have a rotation of JV, Danks,Floyd, GIO and DLS, instead of MB,JG proven winners by the way,JV, Danks, and then you can choose who the 5th starter is. Your rotation really scares me big time.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:15 PM) No, that's not what I'm saying. You need a new pair of reading glasses. Oh, and adding A BAT would solve Mark and Jose's pitching problems. Great solution! The Bills were laughed at and called chokes, just like the Colts were prior to February. Mark and Jon will cost somewhere between $120-150 million in guaranteed money. That isn't going to happen here, nor should it. You are the one drinking the Kenny Williams Kool aid!!! Watch how he trades away MB and JG and buries this franchise. He's already done that with the farm system.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:29 PM) Um...sorry to inform you, but winning the World Series does make Kenny a great GM. Ask Billy Beane. What have Omar Minaya or Doug Melvin (who is so good, you didn't know his name) done better than Kenny? NOTHING. You are too biased to see straight. Winning a world series doesn't make you great. In Kenny's case it makes you lucky!!!

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:02 PM) You say the Championship is the main goal??? But, in another thread you said several GMs were better than Kenny even though they never won a World Series. Which is it? Obviously at the beginning of the season it's every teams goal to win the world series. Obviously only one can. I believe that a GM should be based upon not just winning games but winning divisions and playoff appearances. Just because KW won a World series doesn't make him a good Gm. He has won 1 year in the 7 he has been here. Sure that one has resulted in the first World series Championship in 88 years for the city, blah blah blah. I'm saying I don't believe KW is a smart GM. I don't think he is a great GM by any means. I think this Buerhle fiasco has shown that. He preaches to the fans about wanting to win and sustatin it, but yet he is gonna trade away a guy becasue he refuses to give him a NTC, after the guy gives you a huge hometown discount. And JG will be traded most likely after that. So to me he is a liar. You listen to any knowlegable baseball fan and they will tell you, you lock up good starting pitching, that's where it all starts. And he refuses to do that. But yet he will give JC a 3 year deal with the 1st year a NTC. Where is the logic in that?? So I believe there are many GMs out there that are head and shoulders above KW that haven't won a world series, Terry Ryan from the Twins being one, Dombrowski being another.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) Absolutely. NO team is going to carry three future-HOF pitchers in their 10 most productive years at the same time these days. It's financially impossible. How can you say that??? I'm not saying Buerhle and Garland are future hall of famers. If they keep winning and putting up numbers for the next 8-10 years I believe they could be considered future HOF'ers. Buerhle is giving this team a discount to stay here, and I am sure JG would do the same, so for you to say that, how do you base what you are saying. It's not impossible, the guy is settling for alot less money because he wants to stay here, but our GM won't give the guy a NTC. I don't understand why you would ever want to trade the guy anyway. It just blows my mind!! But he will give a 3 year extension to a 35 or 45 year old man in JC and give him a NTC for this year in his contract, and another 3 year extension to a guy who flip flops between being good and horrible more than Mitt Romney does on political issues.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:36 PM) No, a loser's mentality is being excited about making the playoffs and not winning a single playoff series. As a Colts fan, I can tell you that it gets old very quickly. You're right. He absolutely blew it when he failed to trade for Johan Santana and Chris Carpenter. What in the hell was he supposed to do when his best two starting pitchers weren't performing??? The Bills appeared in four straight Super Bowls and nobody considered them a marquee franchise. I wouldn't say that. They blew us away in the '90s, but they haven't done squat since then. A losers mentality to you is making the playoffs and not winning a game?? So not making the playoffs and being happy that you won 90 games though isn't a losers mentality?? You lost me bro. You totally lost me. At the beginning of the season the goal is to win a Championship. If you ask a player how you do that, he will tell you, we have to get in the playoffs first, and then see what happens. Sort of like we did in 2005. So taking what you say, if we would have choked away the division in 05 and not made the playoffs, we still would have been winners, but if we would have made the playoffs and lost you would have preferred that?? WOW!!! I don't get that at all. I never said KW blew it by not trading for the guys you mentioned, I'm not even gonna comment on that, because it is ridiculous what you said. I'm saying he needed to add a bat!! If you ask anyone the will tell you KW failed this team at the deadline last year. The Bills were a marquee franchise, and for you to say they weren't is silly. They got to the big game, just cause they didn't win it they still had a great franchise. But I'm a Steeler fan anyway, so I could care less about Buffalo or any other NFL team. The Braves have been a model of consistency. Other Org. use their team and Org as a blueprint. Even the great KW admitted to doing that.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) The Braves run is probably the most impressive run in modern sports history. I still don't think many understand how that happened. I guess every other organization is a failure. I was just responding to someone who brought up the Braves Org. But to say you don't know how it happened, here's a little insight. They had three young pitchers that they locked up to long term deals, and built around them. I think that's a pretty good model to start with. Not like our GM who wants to trade away a solid guy because he refuses to give him a NTC, and most likely he will do the same with another young and solid starter either this year or next. But there is a little insight into how the Braves had the run that they did. They weren't afraid to give their allegiance to their starters unlike KW who wants to build a rotation around the ever immortal JV, and JC, and rookies, Danks, Floyd and the our savior GIO!!!