Texsox

He's being defended because based on the reports he used a racial slur than in everyday conversation he would be allowed to use. Which leads to MLB being attacked as being insensitive to the cultural norms in the black and Latino communities. MLB is being defended because umpires would have to first identify the race of the player, understand if social norms allow him to use that word, then make a decision.

What I was directly responding to was the statement that you can't suspend someone for language (words). He didn't specifically say Tim and my response was not specific to Tim's situation. Which once again I will say Tim should not have been suspended. You can and should suspend some people for language. Until we are able to definitely conclude someone's thoughts and intents all we can only respond to the words they are using. Objective not subjective is the clearest standard.

I can't imagine what it must be like for the driver of the car.

Another great example. Could you imagine the batting cage at practice looking like the range at a PGA event? Players all lined up with their personal coaches (that they pay for).

Weak ass (buddy, pal, friend etc)? Who adds that to an insult in an argument? But perhaps TA wanted him to know that despite his deeply held belief that he was "weak ass" they were still friends. I'm also trying to think of a greeting that can't be reciprocated. But it really doesn't matter. They were in an argument on the field and Tim insulted the umpire. That gets you tossed from the game. As insults go, I think this rose to the level to get tossed. If he had stopped at weak ass, or said that was a weak ass call, I'd argue he should not have been tossed. I'll bow out. But to summarize . . . I believe he should not have been suspended. Insulting an umpire rarely gets a suspension and I do not believe this rose to the level that warranted it. I'm factoring in he's a black man shouting it at a weak ass white guy. He should have been tossed from the game. End of story. If you want to stop the groups that we all know should not use that word in any form you have two choices. Deny everyone's use of the word or ask umpires to use their judgement to determine what the race of the person using the word is and how they are using it. This becomes unenforceable. I don't want umpires guessing at the race of the person. I don't want them looking at the back of jerseys for names before making a ruling. So toss everyone out and use suspensions as the leveling. The John Rockers of the world sit out a few games, the TAs of the world are back in the lineup the next day. Maybe eventually the word in all of it's connotations stops becoming an insult used to hurt people. And of course if players are using the word in the modern usage as a friendly greeting among friends do nothing. Only if it's used the way it was used in the past as an angry, ugly, insult.

What don't I get? I pass along what my high school students in San Antonio have told me over the past five years. You tell me it isn't true. OK. Those kids are wrong.

And I'm saying kids tell that when kids are just hanging around singing to the music, (you know not famous professional singers doing their own songs), just kids hanging around, not everyone should use the same energy. ? If it ain't cool in a regular conversation, it ain't cool belting it out in a song.

As you know famous people always get passes. But if I see them, I'll pass it along. I'll also tell my black students that SoxAce thinks they are wrong. I'm sure it will change their minds.

All of those are from before he was born. But I would hate to see history repeat itself. I guess I should have mentioned Ozzie and praising Castro.

In this case I believe he is correct. But you can. and should, suspend someone for words. Marge Schott, Al Campanis, John Rocker are all great examples from Baseball of suspending someone for words.

That may be a Chicago thing, but in San Antonio, you better be real buds or it will be perceived as insulting. At least with high school kids. The tricky part is negotiating song lyrics. As one of my students once told me, don't sing that word with too much energy unless you are black. I don't believe if TA used it to say hello to a friend there would have been an issue. He used it to insult and demean someone in an argument. I don't think it is splitting hairs to see a difference. But again as soon as we rely on umps to make judgement calls, things get really messy.

But it's common sense among umpires who can, and who cannot, use the word.

Why are you so set on keeping that word in all its contexts alive? What makes that word so important to you? I can share many moments growing up where that word was used to hurt, humiliate, and degrade friends of mine. I can still see their reactions. I was an ugly time. I'm all for removing the barb by appropriating the word and using within the community. But like many people who grew up in the 50s to 70s it is impossible to not unhear the echos of hate. Yeah, my reaction to looking up and seeing a young black man using the word is pretty chill. If I heard TA using it I wouldn't really be bothered. But given a world that ended the use and one that continues to toss it around, I would prefer the world that ended its use. Sorry of that offends you.

Finally a post we can all agree on!

Simple, you are asking umpires to judge each player's race and make a call. Is that guy black or Latino? Is he white or bi-racial? It shouldn't be a judgement call by an umpire to decide the race of every player.

What is common sense? We know if it is a white player not cool. If it is a black player, cool. Now what about everyone else? Do some Latino players get a pass others not? And what if an ump isn't certain of the race of the player? Does he ask? Now think about a policy that no one says it. Easy. Who is hurt? Are you telling me that Tim can't find another way to yell at another player? If all the other players can find a way to argue without dropping the n word, what can't TA?

So explain the common sense when a player yells the n word on the field. What is the common sense way the umpire is suppose to react? And interesting that this old white guy is advocating that NOBODY use the word on the field and you want to be certain the word live on. What exactly am I protecting? The end of that word from our speech? So yeah, I'm guilty as hell. If that ugly ass hurtful would and all it's variations is never spoken again, I think the world would be a better place.

It's interesting balancing the rights of the individual with the rights of the club. I remember when Maggs was basically on IR for the rest of his contract and people still expected him to follow the team's advice even though he would probably never play for them again.

Exactly. That's where they should take the time to make the punishment fair.

I was about as far removed from the South Side (closer to Wisconsin than Oak Street Beach) but we played the exact same games with the exact same names. Fast pitch against the wall. Pickle or running bases. With limited kids around all the special rules "right field out", "pitchers hand out", "batter catches".

Thank you.

I was trying to remember which Sox player I was thinking of that went outside the organization for coaching with good results. It was Erik Johnson https://www.si.com/mlb/2015/11/24/erik-johnson-white-sox-pitcher-health

There are all sorts of successful players with those strikeout rates. They are called NL pitchers (when batting) which is yet another reason I'm glad to be a Sox fan.

Here are the three scenarios Everyone can use the word. I believe this would be a PR nightmare for the league. Those groups that we all agree are culturally able to the use the word in a non racist way can, everyone else can't. Umpires will use their best judgement based on the race of the player and the situation to decide if it is OK or not. Make a call just like safe or out, ball or strike, fair or foul. No one use the word. - Umps don't have to make a judgement call. Some players are blocked from expressing themselves in the heat of competition. Obviously I believe #3 is the easiest to enforce, and the best POLICY. And I should add, I believe this applies to being ejected from the game. Later suspensions, if warranted, would be based on all the mitigating factors. If it were me, TA would be on the field today instead of serving a suspension. Guys like Rocker would be suspended.

Exactly but making that call on what is acceptable is exactly what people what umpires to do. They want the umps to judge the player and decide if culturally that player should be allowed to use the n****a word or not.