Texsox

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 11:20 AM) Roc A Fella was bought by Def Jam Records. As part of the deal Jay Z became CEO of Def Jam. If you want an agent who uses old school hard sell tricks to try and get you more money, sure go with Boras. But I believe that those guys dont get the most money for their clients. Just because he got A-Rod $250mil, doesnt mean he couldnt have gotten him $300 mil. And that is the part I will never convince you of. I dont like people who negotiate like Boras. I think they leave money on the table. And thats why Id never sign with Boras. He could never convince me to sit out an entire year to try and get an extra mil. I think its not a good long term decision and I think many times Boras lets his own ego get in the way of whats best for his client. So this really isnt about Jay Z at all. I wouldnt pick Boras unless I wasnt a very good player and I thought he would be able to get me a lot of money when I wasnt worth very much. But If I was a MVP/All-Star there would be no way in hell Id associate with Boras. But that isnt for everyone. That doesn't make Jay-Z a better agent.

BTW, this was fun. It reminds me of the days when I worked at home and we did this every weekday. Now, I have a poetry conference to get ready for.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 11:12 AM) Your points are valid, Tex...I think there is room for both agencies...but give it a month or so, and Jay-Z will have one of the biggest contracts ever, too. A lot will depend also on the people he hires. You have to admit the world of Rock-A-Fella is different than calling on Rick Hahn, Kenny, and Jr.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) I'm talking about endorsements, not player contracts. The corporate world looks to people like Jay-Z as "the pulse" of the African American community, and the youth demographic. They realize there is a lot of money to be made there. That's where his influence will bring money for the clients of his agency. So help me with this. So if Jay-Z is paid to represent someone, a company will overlook their own marketing, their own research, their own advertising agency, and go with what Jay-Z says? That is going to save corporations hundreds of millions of dollars in market research and put a lot of firms out of business. The dude is amazing and I had no clue. He walks into All-Sport and tells them that putting Alexei Ramirez in their adds will deliver the youth market and BAM! it happens. Come one. Really? Will he also help clients that aren't part of '"the pulse' of the African American community, and the youth demographic"? Or will his client base be limited? I think he helps once the company decides they are going to go with a celebrity endorsement.

Speaking of business success. Boras created the second most valuable sports agency in the world, according to Forbes Magazine. I couldn't find a list that Roc-A-Feller was on. Which you consider a bigger accomplishment is of course, a personal opinion. Clearly, if you are going to pick an agent by facebook likes, the choice is clear. If you want the guy that Obama goes to for help with the black community, there is one choice. If you need a cultural icon, you now have that choice. If you want an agent more popular than you, grab him. If you want what I believe will be solid representation, and one of the best role models for leveraging individual talent into a brand, Jay-Z will be a good choice. If you want a guy that has been involved in the biggest contracts ever. (and that isn't for everyone!) I know who I would sign with.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 10:30 AM) Hes not really good at partying or doing drugs. Hes kind of straight edge. Im pretty sure hes bad at sports. And I bet Boras can write a better agreement. I mean lets be honest here. Boras used his friends with talent to get into the agent game. His first clients were ex-teammates and those 2 guys are now on his staff. Actually kind of similar to what Jay is doing. Yet Jay is a clueless rapper? Seriously, What the f***?! Where did I ever say he was a clueless rapper? How many times do I have to say he's a successful businessman and players would do well to emulate him? How many times do I have to say he will be successful? One area, endorsements, I don't see it being a slam dunk for him. Anything short of Jay-Z is the greatest and will crush all competition gets attacked.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) You mean he has a stable of lawyers dating back to the formation of Roc A Fella Records? You mean hes been signing talent to labels since 1995? Damn its almost like running a record label is similar to being a sports agent. Although I guess its possible that Jay Z wrote up the Kanye agreement himself. Thatd make sense. We've been discussing their personal impact. But if you want to mention staffs. Boras' legal team have been drafting sports contracts since 1985? Including the largest and most complex. Wow, it's almost like running a record company. Of course I guess it is possible he wrote up the Prince Fielder contract himself.

And btw, I said at least four times in this thread that he will be successful, I just did not see it being a slam dunk over anyone.

Is there anything that Jay-Z can't do?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) You don't need to try it a different way. I don't think you understand the cultural force that this guy is. Cultural force = success as a sports agent? Ok, you win.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 09:57 AM) He sells the client as a product, just as Scott Boras does! Except people actually like Jay-Z. To whom? And do teams pay players more when they like the agent?

Let's use an example from sports, Michael Jordan. Ten years after retiring he's still raking it in with endorsements out earning most of the active athletes. Will Jordan help you get an endorsement with Nike (his brand) or Adidas? Gatorade or All Sport? Hanes or Jockey? In one he's saying hey, use me also, in another he's working against one of his endorsements and with a company that possibly would prefer to have him endorse their product. I just see the endorsement side being much murkier and much less a slam dunk win for Jay-Z. Again, I am certain he would be successful for his clients, but it won't be as easy as was written way back in that first post I quoted.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 09:32 AM) Ok, case in point...the Democratic Party heavily leans on Jay-Z to drive the black/youth vote...Bill Mahr brings him on his show and rich liberal white people fawn over him...I mean Barack f***ing Obama uses this guy's connections. Agreed. Now how does Jay-Z sign his client to do that instead of him? Does Jay-Z shut up and offer a player for the Mets for that endorsement? And will conservative companies listen to Jay-Z?

Let me try it this way. Jay-Z's advantage will be on the client side. I think a number of players will listen to his pitch and he will sign clients. He is an excellent example of someone who leveraged their individual talents into multiple income streams, and his clients would do well by emulating his example. He will also generate a lot of buzz and I believe the smaller firms initially will be hurt by him opening up this venture. Based on his track record in business, from what I see, he will be successful. Sports is after all an entertainment business, and he knows entertainment. On the endorsement side, I'm not convinced, as one poster initially posted, that Jay-Z easily wins. That side is much different and his celebrity will not open as many doors. He isn't the one doing the commercials. If he was the best choice for a commercial, he would be doing it and competing with his own client. Instead, he has to find opportunities for his clients. That is a much different job. I'm not saying he can't do that for clients, I'm saying it isn't a slam dunk certainty across the board. Overall. Established agents have track records negotiating with teams, which will be the vast majority of the earnings for 90% or more of the players. The debate in front of us is Boras or Jay-Z. If you go with Boras, or most other firms, you will be signing with someone who spends 100% of their business time on representing athletes. With Jay-Z he has other companies he also runs. his companies are bigger and more successful than Boras'. Do you want a full time agent or one who is balancing multiple companies? Each player will have to make that decision. I believe most athletes sign with Boras for the money and he does exactly what they want. There are very few players that do not sign with the high bidder if given a chance. And I don't blame them. Players can be traded to other teams, not offered contracts, released, etc. Look at Thomas, he could have been one of those rare players who play for the same team all his career. Whose choice was it for him to leave? Konerko may want to stay, but does he have that choice? And Boras' clients can have it both ways. Unlike other agents, when a Boras' represented client signs for huge dollars, Boras,as much if not more than the player, is blamed.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 09:10 AM) I am not getting your arguments whatsoever...why does it matter whether the CEO wants to hang out with Jay-Z or Scott Boras? Do you really think this comes down to which agent the CEO wants to play golf with? This is about out of touch white CEOs thinking Jay-Z knows what the black demographic wants more than they do, and thus signing Jay-Z's client to endorse their companies' products. It's as simple as that. I agree. It doesn't matter who they want to hang out with. Which is why I reject Jay-Z's celebrity helping his clients earn endorsements. I also reject, whose call will that accept based on popularity. I reject that because Jay-Z's singing talent got him endorsements it will translate to endorsements for his clients. Nope, their marketing, research, and advertising agency is telling them what a given demographic wants and which celeb endorsement could achieve that goal, not Jay-Z or Boras.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:44 AM) Let's say Boras was going to get him $250 million (but he ends up with say the Tigers or Dodgers) and Jay-Z ends up getting $215 but he stays in New York where he's comfortable and WANTS to stay because he's going to be the cornerstone of the franchise, he can be one of those rare players who plays his entire career for one team...and he makes it back up in endorsements. Everyone's just going to look at the years and total money. That's the only thing Boras really cares about. If getting less money and staying in one place is what you want, and one agent is better at that, you should hire that agent. If you want to know what all the offers are and where the highest money is, than hire that agent. Actually, why get an agent? Frank Thomas negotiated his own deals with JR. If you are too weak to stand up to your agent and have them do what you want, you need a different agent. Maybe Jay-Z will be that agent and he just may corner the market on players wanting to earn less money but stay with their teams. (your example not mine) And that may sell in a MLB locker room. Boras will just force you to accept $250 million, but Jay-Z can get you $215 million and you get to stay with your current team. I guess there is a market for that service. What endorsements did Jordan lose playing baseball and then playing for the Wizards? I honestly can't think of any, but I am certain there may have been a couple. Did Lebron lose a beat moving to Miami? Again, I'm not certain. For most of these guys, their contracts are where they make their money. Take most team sports and most of the guys on the roster are not endorsement machines. You are probably right, they would make more staying in one market and developing local endorsements, but those aren't bringing in millions like playing. And thinking about this I am inclined to agree, if Jay-Z is willing to call a local car dealer to have his client endorse "Pete Smith Downtown San Antonio's Favorite Pontiac Dealer, Home of the Best Deals!" he may have an edge over Boras.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) You obviously can't get over the fact that Jay-Z makes rap music, while ignoring every other business venture he has been involved in outside of music, so I'm done with this. Yes, he is involved in other business ventures which have been immensely successful. Which is why I asked do you want a part time or full time agent? One is branching out, starting a new business, the other has a thirty year track record as a sports agent. Which argument hinges on Jay-Z being popular with a lot of endorsements? Mine or yours? I will be more than happy to discount he is popular and suggest it has nothing to do with his future success as a sports agent if you will.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) Well then maybe Peter Frampton should become an agent, if music on iPods plays such a big role. I've been resisting making that same claim. Thank you. QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:23 AM) Well then maybe Jay-Z should become an agent, if music on iPods plays such a big role. See?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:14 AM) No companies have come out publicly, but if multiple baseball teams have I would imagine he negotiates similarily with others. That style probably works well with a baseball team desperate for a player, but companies don't NEED a player to endorse their product. Jay-Z has connections with many people in the business & endorsement world through all his past dealing, that's why it can help get more endorsements. People have a history with him and more likely to want to deal with him again. Why are they competing for the same endorsements? They are completely different people in different genres. You keep mentioning how much more popular Jay-Z is, and I agree. he does have endorsements with those same people. When you hire him as your agent, you are asking him to also get you an endorsement with the same company he is endorsing. That seems like competing. And no, I believe Boras, like Jay-Z, are able to adapt their style to achieve their goals. They both appear to be excellent negotiators. Boras has honed a style that gets big bucks for his clients from baseball teams. If you want an agent that gets less for you, then maybe Jay-Z is your guy. Jay-Z is an incredible businessperson, building a nice empire. His net worth is over $500 million. Boras is, as you described, just a sports agent who has a net worth of only $100 million. So ask yourself, do you want a full time agent who has a thirty year track record or part time rookie agent with no experience representing athletes?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 08:05 AM) Who is going to turn down Jay-Z's phone call? In MLB, about 1/3rd of the teams don't want to have anything to do with Boras, the White Sox, historically, one of them. And how many corporations like Nike or McDonald's or Apple even know anything about Boras, unless their marketing departments are REALLY into baseball. They all know Jay-Z and CAA, as well. Look at Boras' client list. You really don't believe advertising agencies and major companies have heard of him? It's their business. My daughter, who is in advertising, could list all of the top Hispanic talent in America. She doesn't have to watch the novellas, hear the Tejano, to know the top people and who represents them. I'm not suggesting that Jay-Z will fail, I believe he will be successful. There are any number of successful agents. But I just don't see him knocking off Boras as the top baseball agent any time soon. And as far as taking Jay-Z's calls. Look at the top ten list and tell me which one has Jay_Z on their iPod? I believe the "doesn't know who they are" will be more mid 50 Fortune 500 executives to Jay-Z. I just don't see Denise Morrison getting excited that Jay-Z is calling her. I don't see her getting excited that Boras is calling either.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 07:57 AM) Agent A has a stake in several companies offering endorsements and has also dealt with companies in obtaining his own endorsements. Agent B only has a history of negotiating and by all accounts is a major pain in the ass to deal with. I think Agent A wins in my book. Since we are discussing only endorsements here, what company has accused Agent B of being a pain in the ass? And again, how does Jay-Z's endorsement potential translate to getting more endorsements for his clients? Will he give his up? Will he agree to promote products with his clients? Do you want to compete with your agent for endorsements?

People have offered that Jay-Z would have an edge with signing clients, and I can see that. I believe that Boras has an edge in getting endorsements for his clients. For the same reasons as were offered that Jay-Z has an edge with clients.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 07:41 AM) First of all, why are CEOs negotating endorsement deals with baseball players? I doubt it ever goes up high on the food chain. Jay-Z is extremely wealthy and is in charge of several corporations. I think a CEO would have more in common with him than Scott Boras, who is just a sports agent. If the head of Mercedes is seen in public shaking Jay-Z's hand or shaking Boras's hand, which one do you think would sell more cars? CEOs are not negotiating the deals, but they are approving major shifts in the brand's marketing, and a major celebrity endorsement would qualify. And between Jay-Z and Boras, Jay-Z would sell more cars. But this may be where you are confused. We are talking about Jay-Z getting endorsements for other people, not himself. Scott Boras has a net worth topping $100 million and is CEO of his organization which represents over 175 athletes, some at the absolute top. He already has contacts at the agencies and companies for the endorsements. That will take some time for Jay-Z to generate. Advantage Boras in endorsements. Clearly.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 07:10 AM) On the other hand, everyone that's rich but not so well known or famous, probably 90% of them have that Jerry Jones/Daniel Snyder/Mark Cuban bug and the desire to put themselves on the map by adding the final element, FAME. It's not a matter of wanting to hang out with Jay-Z, per se. It's using his contacts and connections to leverage yourself into a different realm. For every white player (thinking someone like Josh Hamilton) who would be totally uncomfortable, there's all the African-American/Dominican/Venezuelan players who totally feel uncomfortable with Boras, no matter who he surrounds himself with... Finally, you have to look at it from a demographics standpoint. Every team in baseball wants to have a bilingual manager and coaching staff. The Hispanic/Mexican (especially) portion of the US population is growing at an unprecedented pace...if you ignore them in marketing, you're leaving out 25-30% of the the entire country. Film-makers have already cued into this trend...look at the Fast and the Furious series. They're checking off the box in every segment of the population (Ludacris and Tyrese, Eva Mendes, Michelle Rodriguez, Tego Calderon and Dom Omar, even Indonesian kick-boxer/martial arts actor Joe Taslim). Look at how nearly every teenager outsider of the US fancies himself a hip hop star and tries to emulate what he sees in the music videos. http://www.forbes.com/sites/darrenheitner/...esent-athletes/ You think Forbes doesn't love to write these Jay-Z stories? You are missing my point, which was who could get more endorsement deals, Jay-Z or Boras. That isn't the client, that is who makes the decision on which celebs will be representing their brand. That is these guys, this is who your agent is negotiating with. Tell me again how Jay-Z has the inside edge with these guys. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eggh45jef/h...st-paid-bosses/ These are the top ten paid execs in America, which ones are listening to Jay-Z CDs

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 07:17 AM) Wow. That's just wrong on so many levels. Who do you want negotiating with the CEO of Mercedes, Jay-Z or Boras? That's the endorsement world. I responded to a claim that Jay-Z would win that. I don't see it.