Texsox

lots of luck keeping it down around here

Elves are sometime scary/ f*** a ghost beat me

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:12 AM) I just googled it... Is Forbes good enough? http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kenne...r-robinson.html Gee looks like my link, I guess you have me on ignore I feel like Balta Well written piece, and since he was Reagan's speechwriter, we should expect nothing less.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 09:29 AM) and that's why I am conflicted. It's a solid counter point. It kind of comes down to "best available" why reject the majority of people on the planet automatically? Especially if the person is the one voted on by the citizens?

Another confusing moment in this thread

Zoom was a lousy TV show

Xerox is not what I mean when I refer to reproducing with my girlfriend

Very interesting Fla, perhaps I should verify my supplier.

Sure, that's the ticket. Rim salt poisoning

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:57 AM) So, I've pondered this before and I still have yet to come to a clear decision on my stance. While I understand why this was implemented back then, I am not totally sure how applicable it is today. The example I use is if a kid was born in say... Sweden... and at the age of 3 moved to America with his family, by the time he is 35, he's probably going to be no less American than I am. So, whose to say he is less deserving to be President for the country he loves? But at the same time, i can see how it is a deterrent from keeping some guy who may have been born in say... Kenya... and be secretly Muslim, be a great charismatic guy,... only to use that charisma to transform America into some kind of socialist Muslim country. ok ok... you get the joke there, but the point is valid i think. We have home born and bred citizens capable of leading us down a path we do not want to go.

The vision of what each of us have of the future of health care in this country must be so dramatically different. Listening to the public, I think some believe the Doctors will be forced to close their offices and come work for the some giant government run assembly line of health care. Tens of thousands of closed Doctor offices across the landscape. Doctors closing their practices and selling real estate or becoming Monavie distributors. On the other side, I think some believe we'll have an express lane into seeing a Doctor, all tests will be performed the same day, and all the negatives will disappear.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:47 AM) TECHNICALLY, they were all born in what would become the United States of America... just not before we were independent from Great Brittan. Fair enough.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:36 AM) Where is your line? What exact freedoms are you willing to give up so the government can make things "better"? I hear a lot of s*** from people who are willing to turn their lives over to the government, but I am curious for you all to start answering your own questions? Speech? Religion? Movement? Property? How do you define "turning your life over to" Boarding a plane that was inspected, controlled, etc by the government? Buying food that was inspected by the government? Driving on bridges that were inspected by the government? Allowing police to monitor your movements as you walk down the street? Use the court system to put someone to death? If you mean having the government pay my Doctor instead of some insurance company, I have no problem with that. I would be "turning my life over" to a private insurance company, not of my choosing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:19 AM) Exactly. So why would you support the governmentally organized destruction of our medical system? I'll take a chance and give a full explanation. Because the current system will not be in America's best interest moving forward. The current system is based on companies offering health insurance to their employees. Smaller companies, those that keep jobs in the US instead of outsourcing to foreign countries, have the roughest time offering that benefit. I see small business as the greatest driving force in our economy; moving insurance away from a benefit of employment will help those small businesses to compete for the best employees. Further individual health is actually a community health issue. So many diseases are communicable. By treating the society as a whole, we stand a better chance at a more healthy population for everyone, not just those lucky enough to work for a company that offers health insurance, or who is married to someone with health insurance benefits. Finally, I trust out elected leaders to change the face of health care before the CEOs of insurance companies. The insurance companies have already destroyed the system of the 50s, 60s, and 70s when patients truly had a choice in who they saw or what hospital they visited. Patients have no real choice in who they are insured with, and depending on policy, have no real choice in which provider to see. That doesn't seem very free to me, especially compared to the 70s when I was growing up. And it all started with a simple "benefit". Go to this Doctor and we (the insurance company) will handle the payment. Soon the insurance company had routed their customers to the Doctors that they chose. The patient is the least powerful cog in the current system. They lack the knowledge of the medical community and the money of the insurance company. They are a source of profit or loss for the insurance company. And finally, I believe in America and the people who live here to build the best system on the planet. But I've always been a big fan of the USA and our unlimited potential to do good.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:14 AM) "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Exactly! And what greater threat to liberty is health? You accept a government run police department to keep you safe from criminals, but a government run department to keep you safe from illness is a threat to your freedoms and liberty?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 08:08 AM) Its news to me - perhaps you could substantiate it for us. http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kenne...r-robinson.html This is about as credible of a source as can be found.And here is a little background on who wrote the piece Peter M. Robinson is a rese

SS mentioned it as an aside in the health care thread, I do not think we really discussed it. Does the natural born American clause help or hurt us? Obviously we have had some Presidents who were not born in the US. Looking over this list of Presidents who were not born in the US, seems like some damn fine Presidents George Washington John Adams Thomas Jefferson James Madison James Monroe John Quincy Adams Andrew Jackson William Henry Harrison I recall when Henry Kissinger was the poster child of someone who many would have liked to see run for President.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 07:54 AM) To you it is a positive. To others preventing someone who isn't legally allowed to hold the office of the President is a positive thing. Its all in the eye of the beholder. To me the continued erosions of our freedoms aren't too positive. How is assuring all American adequate health care an erosion of your freedom? You do not have a choice in what police department patrols your street. You do not have a choice in what government agency inspects the food you eat or establishes standards for the car you drive. Most Americans do not have a choice in the water that is piped to their homes or the sanitation service to remove the waste. There are certain infrastructures that we have as Americans that are shared. True, it is in the eye of the beholder.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 07:40 AM) Typical strategy from the healthers. It is much easier to label and name call. Mega-dittos (after the edit). Nice label btw

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) The point is right now illegals are not eligible for insurance because they can't legally obtain work. That's honestly the way it should be. So they go to the ER, get treated with world class care (compared to the rest of the world - no it's no perfect, no one says it is) and we the taxpayer pony up or it gets written off. The issue becomes, under this plan, just like you say, they can go purchase insurance like it's bread in a store. "Purchase"... whatever the hell that is. Anyway, that's wrong. If you're not a citizen, you should not be able to pick up insurance like it's bread in a store. What the hell comparision is that? So I'll say it another way, which is the semantics game you're playing. Insurance is guaranteed to be available to them. That's FACT. And it's wrong. Jose Illegal (stereotyped) just got the same "rights" I just got as a citizen, and that's just wrong. I pretty much agree with you about offering to illegals (another reason for a guest worker program). The danger is having those same workers spreading a treatable communicable disease. The jobs that many of the illegals work, are in our food chain. Kind of scary that the only people in the country without access to health care will be the people touching your food.

Other than this nagging headache, those were dam fine margaritas last night

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 04:39 PM) How about Kennedy wanting to secretly meet the Soviets to tell them how to counter our president in the 1980s? Great move. Yep, and with all the Reagan deals before and after it is kind of scary what all goes on.

Tomorrow this thread takes off.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) You're not going to get 100 dem senators. If they can't get stuff done when they completely control the government it's their own fault. Just put another Kennedy in the final 60 seat. There would still be problems passing a health care program. So many excuses, nothing is ever the Democrats fault. It's getting old fast. Maybe they should address unemployment then fix health care. Governing with restraint. When the political tides turn, I hope the GOP acts in the same measured, prudent, manner.

QUOTE (kapkomet @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 11:23 AM) He is SO bi-partisan. He's reached out to SO many Republicans since he's been president. Oh wait, he's got his hand out, it's shake my hand, do it my way, or f*** you. Bi-partisan my ass. Perhaps John McCain and other Senate Republicans have been lying?