Texsox

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:26 AM) You self-identify with your party of choice. This round of primaries has brought out some flaws in the current system, namely that disingenuous voters can cross over and vote solely to cause disruption. More often than not, however, that is not the case. Republican voters picked the Republican candidate. A closed primary tries to get around disingenuous voters but has the potential to exclude independent voters who may be genuinely interested in a certain candidate. And that becomes the circular problem. As noted earlier, the primary is for party members to select a candidate. By definition an independent is not part of a party, yet they are voting. So if it is just to see who the top two vote getters are, why not just list all the candidates and go from there?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) Most players are assholes. What the White Sox did with those dolls and bats was wrong. What was your reaction when Ozzie called Marriotti a f**? If you did that in an office, there's a good chance you're headed out the door or at the very least to the HR dept. I thought OZ was wrong, and took one more step towards the door. Oz will lose his job for costing the team fans not games.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:27 PM) Idd still like to hear how this is even close to as bad as the kiss cam IN the stadium? If the problem with this is "harassment, making girls feel uncomfortable in the locker room or putting girls in an awkward situation" how is this even remotely close to as bad as the kiss cam? You dont think the kiss cam could very easily make a girl feel uncomfortable? Imagine if this was your business. You have tens of millions invested. Tell me you want to see your employees, the guys you pay over $100 million a year to, creating a display with a latex doll and a bat shoved up it's ass. Who is that going to sell more tickets to? Whose jersey will sell more because he finds latex dolls with bats up their ass useful in breaking out of a slump? And for the record, I think the kiss cam is a terrible idea.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:24 PM) I see the clubhouse as their house, especially, when they are on the road. Maybe we should restrict what music they listen to. Maybe we should restrict what they can watch on tv. Maybe we should restrict them from gambling or swearing. Maybe we should restrict them from playing pranks on each other. Maybe we should restrict them from giving each other the finger. Maybe we should restirct them from spraying beer and champagne. Where is the line drawn? It's enter at your own risk. That is the players domain. It is not a public place. They are not on the councourse. They are not in a hotel lobby. Nobody can just walk in there. A reporter has to have credentials and they are guests there. If they are offended by seeing a guys joint or naked ass, that is their issue. If they are offended by swearing...that is their issue. If they are offended by a childish immauture display of blow up dolls taking a bat in the arse.....that is their own issue. It is not their place to come into someone else domain and make policy. They are there to report on baseball. What else goes on is none of their business. I think after this next game...when they open the doors to allow the reporters access ...every locker should just have a doll sitting there...because if reporters are going to report on topics besides baseball....they are gonna get about as much info from those dolls, as they are from the players For the players entire careers reporters in the locker room have been a part of their lives. Right or wrong. Where do we draw the line? Are you serious? Certainly you have a concept of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that will be reported to your fan base? You have got to be smart enough to know that this is not the image that the White Sox or MLB wants to portray. Because you don't know where to draw the line, are you saying there should not be a line? Imagine if the Sox no longer where on ESPN because the team barred the reporters from reporting THE TRUTH. Great PR.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:16 PM) Have you been in the clubhouse? They get dressed at their stalls. The press is right there. Its even smaller in most road clubhouses. Yes, but not in Toronto. The press is given specific access times so players can get dressed, etc.

The players understand the locker room access rules. They have not changed since they entered the league. They knew reporters would see it. They knew a reporter(s) could and probably would report on it. If it's no big deal, why is anyone concerned they reported on it? If it's no big deal, just grown fathers having a little fun to break out of a slump, why should anyone complain it was even reported?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:03 PM) Michael Jordan was protected by the press. Roger Clemens was protected by the press. These guys got away with a lot of crap. There's plenty that goes on that doesn't get reported. Plenty that would make anyone on this board blush. While I don't agree with what went on in the clubhouse, I think it was very irresponsible of a few members of the press to report it. This is a room where men get dressed . What's next, are they going to start reporting on the size of each player's crank? There are separate changing areas. The press is not allowed in when the guys are naked. These guys are protected because they keep acts like this away from the office and work. That's the point.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:57 AM) Also, for everyone comparing this to other jobs lets not forget that in this particular work place it is 100% male. No, the workplace includes customers, reporters, a host of support personall who may or may not be male. And there is a place for the guys to change away from everyone's eyes. There is a private area. In fact the players are expected to be decently clothed in the public (restricted) part of the locker room. All this happened back in the 1970s. The issue of men and women in the locker rooms have been thrashed out decades ago.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:52 AM) The primaries are for party members to pick who their party's candidate will be, not for Americans to decide who the President will be. OK. How do they decide who is a party member? Again, Rush can pick up a Dem ballot and Sharpton can grab a GOP. How is that the members picking the candidate? I understand the Dem super delegates. At least down here they are elected officials (current or past), organizers, county party chair, and large campaign contributors. They are truly members of the party. But if the GOP campaign was still close in Texas, I would be a member of the GOP party based on my last vote. And y'all know that would be a wolf in sheeps clothing. I would not be surprised if Kap grabbed a Dem ballot. Not much was in play on the GOP side in Texas. Kap is a knowledgable voter who knew as much or more about the Dem candidates. But his values, and those of who we would call a "dem party member" are probably not the same. Is the system really correct when anyone can select either party nominee?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:48 AM) It is a MLB policy to open the locker room to the press, and its only for a certain amount of time. If JR and every White Sox player and employee had their choice, a member of the press would never be in the clubhouse. I agree. For most players the press is an unwelcome part of the job. But it is a big part of the job. And almost every job has it's not so much fun part. But to cash those checks they know it comes with the territory. And if you do it very well, they reap some big benefits. By most accounts Michael Jordan was no choir boy. But he carefully guarded his image. He was engaging with the press, always acted like a pro in and around the court. And years after his retirement he still does more commercials than any active player. The guys get it. They understand it. Better then most fans.

It's about the symbolism and a characterization. While it may seem this is a private locker room, it is not. And they know that. Imagine if Thome put this up in his living room. It is an absurd thought. But as YASNY stated about an hour and 100 posts ago, they put it up in all of our living rooms. And whether it should, or should not, have been reported, everyone there knew it could and probably would. Again no surprise. At best, it was a stupid gesture by (probably) a newer player without the experience to know what a s*** storm could ignite. At worse it acted out some horrible deep seated hatred of women. And to make points, we all pushed the envelope to make our points. Was some of the reactions out of scale? Yes. And to both extremes. Most older Sox fans will be embarrassed. Not because we're some PC crazed, no sense of humor, morons. But because we understand the social conventions of society. How we are not in a vacuum, but reactions spread. This could reverberate like Disco Demolition or the cheap beer promo against Detroit. Just one more embarrassing black eye for the franchise. And for those of us with a few decades invested in this team, we know how these things cling for far too long.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:29 AM) You know, when I think of a paper promoting the sox and their core values Immediately the Suntimes comes to mind. Jay, Greg and Carol print lots of articles fluffing the sox. It happens all the time. In fact I hear that Jay and JR have dinner all the time as well. So cut off access to the media. No interviews, stop advertising. Why not promote the image of the franchise as perverted guys f***ing sex dolls with objects. what could be wrong with that? If there really is nothing wrong with it, why not build an advertising campaign around it. Perhaps the official sex doll of the Sox? Bring a doll and have it autographed by a sox player? These are grown men, the face of an organization worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They are working for an organization that spends millions on advertising to promote an image. In a league that spends many more that to promote baseball as America's Sport. Fun for the whole family. If y'all can't see where this stunt is just plain wrong, I can only say that most of the adults on the board realize it and I suspect as y'all spend a few more years on this planet, your opinions will change.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:19 AM) We do national elections on one day, why not primaries on one day as well? 3 months campaigning and debates, then primary election. Why should we vote twice? And why should it be divided between parties? Why not just list everyone running and take the top two? If that happens to be two Reps, why not? If they were the two top vote getters.

When Thome missed an appearnce to promote the team because of a family obligation everyone fawned over him and shouted the atta boys. No one complained the press should not have reported it. The team was promoting that wholesome family man image. Now, it appears that some of you do not want the press to print anything negative, so are you demanding the press misleads the public?

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:09 AM) Nobody wants reporters to come in and report on what they see. They are there to get quotes and such on BASEBALL. They love the human interest stories as well. Visiting sick kids in hospitals, etc. And once again, everyone knows the rules. This is nothing new. reporters have been in the lockers room foreverm female reporters for thirty years. But these guys are too stupid to unerstand boundaries in an area that the public will see?

Yes, this is a locker room, it is also the area that the EMPLOYER has opened up and wants visitors to come in and report on what they see. The EMPLOYER hopes to parlay that publicity into more profits for them. They use those profits to pay the employees millions of dollars. The image the team portrays, whether accurate or not, also increases or decreases the profits for the team. Players understand this and some perform better in that role (Thome, Payton) then others (Bonds, Thomas) Perhaps this publicity will increase the fan base with people who think blow up dolls are great entertainment. That will really improve the image of Sox fans everywhere.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 6, 2008 -> 09:42 AM) What law prohibits a blowup doll from an office? Companies may have policies that prohibit them, but I doubt any law is in place making blowup dolls illegal in a workplace It is a form of sexual harassment which is illegal, same as hanging pornography.

So based on this thread it is fair to assume this about White Sox fans W00t! W00t! Blow up dolls! f*** the PC b****es W00t! yEAH! We act like men Blow up dolls with bats up their ass Sox fans! Our players are the coolest, they have shrines with blow up dolls PARTAYY Is that really the image y'all want? Wow.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ May 6, 2008 -> 09:24 AM) You still seem to have this idea that a baseball clubhouse is a common workplace, and what happens within your typical office should apply to MLB. Are you suggesting that a business can declare themselves exempt from laws? Laws are written that specifically exempt certain companies from specific laws, but it doesn't work in reverse. Companies cannot declare themselves above the law.

The points I have offered so far. Society has always censored, and always will. We draw lines and enforce them. And we draw new lines as appropriate. Different media needs different laws and different boundaries. We have and will continue to produce works that are over the line and society will ban them. While it is easy to say, make parents be parents, there are serious problems and practical concerns. The best of parents cannot be with their children 24/7. We cannot continue to make these items so readily available and then dump it on parent's laps. Surround the kid with taboo items and they will get access. Promote the forbidden on TV, radio, newspapers, web sites, magazines, and it builds demand in the kids. We have stacked up the odds so far against parents it is time to actually help parents in some way.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:14 AM) Wow, should the title of the thread be, everyone here has had a bad few days, let the overreations be posted here. Its a locker room, get over it. How about all the dressing up other teams do to rookies, carrying a pink backpack, "daddy why did they make Ryan Theriot dress up like a catholic schoolgirl?" Give me a break. This is such a non-story its hilarious. It is a story because it is so far outside the boundaries of acceptable behavior in a workplace.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 09:05 AM) What happens in the clubhouse should stay in the clubhouse other than quotes media members get from players. Anything else, if they report it, they should lose their access IMO. There is no need for this stuff to be all over the papers. Like the post above stated, they try to present a family atmosphere at the ballpark and kids do look up to these guys, but that doesn't mean that crazy stuff just shouldn't happen. It should be off the record. What business doesn't want all the free publicity they receive from the media??? The Sox will not be covered today because they blocked access to the media because they reported truthfully about what was going on in the clubhouse? Brilliant PR move.

The rules have been in place for decades. The players involved have not known any other rules or different levels of access since becoming pros. It wasn't like they turned around and all of a sudden reporters are there. They knew the rules and who would see it. This is a terrible lapse in judgement. If this is the example they want the world to see about the Chicago White Sox, that is very sad. We complain when we are always compared to Linge and drunken fans running onto the field, then people here defend the players? That is the image we will live with. Enjoy.

The sales department area, is now called a locker room and there will be porn, blow up dolls, nudity, and swearing. Anyone in accounting, marketing, shipping, etc that needs to enter this area to do their jobs is hereby warned. If there are any uptight pc b****es who can't take a dirty joke in good fun, they should look for other employment, Dammit, we have to increase third quarter earnings! This is a multi million dollar business.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 6, 2008 -> 09:44 AM) That to me is why I agree with you, this is total B.S. Not only do the Sox send their tickets DHL, but DHL claims to be the official shipping company of MLB. And they won't insure tickets?!?!?! The real issue is their clerks did not accurately inform the customer and they should stand behind their clerk's actions. Also, if they said negotiable items, I do not believe 99% of people would understand that meant sports tickets. I would have thought cash, stock certificates, blank money orders, gift certificates, etc.I understand having a policy against insuring those items, but that has to be conveyed, clearly, to people shipping.