Texsox

And I thought I should toss this in. If this was at some party, away from work, I would think it was really stupid, and wish they had not done it, but would cut them all the slack. Bringing it to work, where they knew reporters would be around, is inexcusable, and (I thought) indefensible.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ May 6, 2008 -> 02:22 PM) Because the normal definition of a slumpbuster just isn't safe in this day and age. I actually applaud them for going an alternative route.I'll give you that. This is starting to sound like an Office skit. Everyone sitting around the office, brainstorming ways to sell more. Ideas? Anyone? Well if we were big league baseball players we could bring in a latex doll and stick bats up her butt!

So why is it that baseball players have to be able to simulate perverted sex acts with an inflatible doll to do their jobs?

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 6, 2008 -> 02:06 PM) Im curious, are male reporters allowed in female lockerrooms, whether they be professional or college teams? male and female reporters are granted the exact same access. Which has been the point all along. Equal access. Keep reporters out of the locker room and provide an interview room woulod make the media happy. But this is a baseball tradition that makes the clubs money.

Scanning my hard drive, sorry dude, nothing on those topics. you know, just sayin'

men get lonely when they are locked up for a long time and they have certain urges . . . Relax. It will probably be a bunch of guys like yourself. The county jail down here has inmates that perform community service during the day and are locked up at night. I've had them helping on several projects and it sucks to be locked up, but it shouldn't be violent.

Again it is a different environment -- REPORTERS ARE THERE! Reporters are there, out in the open. They even dress differently then the players so the players can tell the difference. This is not their bathroom at home. Why is that such a difficult concept for people to get? The reporters are there because MLB and the Sox WANT THEM TO BE THERE! They help the team to sell tickets, get people to watch the television, and helps the players to earn millions. It comes with the territory and the players have lived with it forever. This is like the morons that stand behind reporters on live feeds and jump up and down and flash signs.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 6, 2008 -> 02:44 PM) What is worse Tex, the plastic blow up dolls that are an obvious joke, or the amount of penis that they may see during a walk through after the game. They both are bad. The obvious joke because someone had to go buy the doll, position the doll, and stick the bats. Players have been fined for flashing reporters. And in a world that people are tortured and murdered everyday, should we really use the lowest denominator to determine what is acceptable behavior? Why prosecute stealing when other people are murdering? Why prosecute stealing a stereo when other people steal cars? It's a terrible argument to make.

At this point, it is a complete mystery to me. As I said probably at the same time last year. Coaches should be changed during the off season. I dislike seeing shake ups like that in the middle of the season. We are probably stuck with him again, but please make a change next off season.

So those that believe violent video games and such does not affect young minds, and it has no adverse affect on adult minds, what does affect your mind and personality?

I am sitting here trying to understand the logic If you are a company where the public will never see your employees, blow dolls with bats in the butts is bad. If you are a company where this will be publicized all over the world, which spends millions marketing to families and young kids, it's ok? This may be the first time Sox fans have really surprised me. To defend that kind of image for our team just doesn't make sense.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:49 AM) Because its not to see who the overall top two are. Its to see who the top Dem. and Rep. (and other parties) are. In your situation, the "winners" would have a small percentage of the vote since the "pie" would be shared with more people. You'd almost need automatic run offs (3 pts for first choice, 2 for second, 1 for third type voting). OK, then still run one ballot and take the top Dem, top Rep, top Green Party, whatever. But drop the pretense of being the members selecting who they want to represent their party.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 6, 2008 -> 01:39 PM) They arent even close to the same thing, which is why making a big deal out of this is ridiculous and is an obvious outlet for the frustration of losing. Clubhouses and locker rooms do many things that arent even close to what are acceptable in a working environment, thats because they ARENT THE SAME THING. no they AREN"T THE SAME THING. There are reporters coming in who will publicize what they see and hear. Who thinks employees should be smart enough to act in a manner that reflects positively on the organization? Who thinks they should act in a manner that demeans the organization?

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ May 6, 2008 -> 01:00 PM) Everyone's thresholds are different. Some reporters may be very offended by certain curse words. Some may be offended by certain music...so by certain movies. What you find acceptable others may not. Clealry we can see that by this thread. I think there does need to be a line and after it's drawn then we can see what side positioning a blow up doll with a bat is on. You act like these players did this with the White Sox or MLB's image in mind. They didn't think abotu that. It was done for each other....done for a laugh...done to stay loose and that's all. It had no meaning. It was immature and childish, but it wasn't done for the reporters and it wasn't done for the public and it's a shame reporters felt the need to discuss it. I think the clubhouse is their domain...I think they see it as that... The entire second paragraph shows why this was so wrong. For a hundred years for male reporters, over thirty years for female reporters, the locker room has been open to reporters. If after all this time, the players still think it is their private domain, they are the stupidest people on the planet. How could they possibly think it was private with all these strangers in there? For their entire major league career reporters have been walking into their locker room and reporting on what they see and hear. Now you are proposing they never knew this could happen? The lines has been drawn, players exposing themselves to women reporters have been fined. Reporters acting inappropriately have been banned from clubhouses and locker rooms. Society has talked about sexual harassment for over a decade. How many more lines have to be drawn for these guys? Here is an easy line to draw. If marketing will use this to sell tickets = good. If marketing will scream, fans will be outraged = bad. It's their employer. It's their paychecks. These guys understand the marketing of the sport.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:26 AM) You self-identify with your party of choice. This round of primaries has brought out some flaws in the current system, namely that disingenuous voters can cross over and vote solely to cause disruption. More often than not, however, that is not the case. Republican voters picked the Republican candidate. A closed primary tries to get around disingenuous voters but has the potential to exclude independent voters who may be genuinely interested in a certain candidate. And that becomes the circular problem. As noted earlier, the primary is for party members to select a candidate. By definition an independent is not part of a party, yet they are voting. So if it is just to see who the top two vote getters are, why not just list all the candidates and go from there?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) Most players are assholes. What the White Sox did with those dolls and bats was wrong. What was your reaction when Ozzie called Marriotti a f**? If you did that in an office, there's a good chance you're headed out the door or at the very least to the HR dept. I thought OZ was wrong, and took one more step towards the door. Oz will lose his job for costing the team fans not games.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:27 PM) Idd still like to hear how this is even close to as bad as the kiss cam IN the stadium? If the problem with this is "harassment, making girls feel uncomfortable in the locker room or putting girls in an awkward situation" how is this even remotely close to as bad as the kiss cam? You dont think the kiss cam could very easily make a girl feel uncomfortable? Imagine if this was your business. You have tens of millions invested. Tell me you want to see your employees, the guys you pay over $100 million a year to, creating a display with a latex doll and a bat shoved up it's ass. Who is that going to sell more tickets to? Whose jersey will sell more because he finds latex dolls with bats up their ass useful in breaking out of a slump? And for the record, I think the kiss cam is a terrible idea.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:24 PM) I see the clubhouse as their house, especially, when they are on the road. Maybe we should restrict what music they listen to. Maybe we should restrict what they can watch on tv. Maybe we should restrict them from gambling or swearing. Maybe we should restrict them from playing pranks on each other. Maybe we should restrict them from giving each other the finger. Maybe we should restirct them from spraying beer and champagne. Where is the line drawn? It's enter at your own risk. That is the players domain. It is not a public place. They are not on the councourse. They are not in a hotel lobby. Nobody can just walk in there. A reporter has to have credentials and they are guests there. If they are offended by seeing a guys joint or naked ass, that is their issue. If they are offended by swearing...that is their issue. If they are offended by a childish immauture display of blow up dolls taking a bat in the arse.....that is their own issue. It is not their place to come into someone else domain and make policy. They are there to report on baseball. What else goes on is none of their business. I think after this next game...when they open the doors to allow the reporters access ...every locker should just have a doll sitting there...because if reporters are going to report on topics besides baseball....they are gonna get about as much info from those dolls, as they are from the players For the players entire careers reporters in the locker room have been a part of their lives. Right or wrong. Where do we draw the line? Are you serious? Certainly you have a concept of acceptable and unacceptable behavior that will be reported to your fan base? You have got to be smart enough to know that this is not the image that the White Sox or MLB wants to portray. Because you don't know where to draw the line, are you saying there should not be a line? Imagine if the Sox no longer where on ESPN because the team barred the reporters from reporting THE TRUTH. Great PR.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:16 PM) Have you been in the clubhouse? They get dressed at their stalls. The press is right there. Its even smaller in most road clubhouses. Yes, but not in Toronto. The press is given specific access times so players can get dressed, etc.

The players understand the locker room access rules. They have not changed since they entered the league. They knew reporters would see it. They knew a reporter(s) could and probably would report on it. If it's no big deal, why is anyone concerned they reported on it? If it's no big deal, just grown fathers having a little fun to break out of a slump, why should anyone complain it was even reported?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 12:03 PM) Michael Jordan was protected by the press. Roger Clemens was protected by the press. These guys got away with a lot of crap. There's plenty that goes on that doesn't get reported. Plenty that would make anyone on this board blush. While I don't agree with what went on in the clubhouse, I think it was very irresponsible of a few members of the press to report it. This is a room where men get dressed . What's next, are they going to start reporting on the size of each player's crank? There are separate changing areas. The press is not allowed in when the guys are naked. These guys are protected because they keep acts like this away from the office and work. That's the point.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:57 AM) Also, for everyone comparing this to other jobs lets not forget that in this particular work place it is 100% male. No, the workplace includes customers, reporters, a host of support personall who may or may not be male. And there is a place for the guys to change away from everyone's eyes. There is a private area. In fact the players are expected to be decently clothed in the public (restricted) part of the locker room. All this happened back in the 1970s. The issue of men and women in the locker rooms have been thrashed out decades ago.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 6, 2008 -> 10:52 AM) The primaries are for party members to pick who their party's candidate will be, not for Americans to decide who the President will be. OK. How do they decide who is a party member? Again, Rush can pick up a Dem ballot and Sharpton can grab a GOP. How is that the members picking the candidate? I understand the Dem super delegates. At least down here they are elected officials (current or past), organizers, county party chair, and large campaign contributors. They are truly members of the party. But if the GOP campaign was still close in Texas, I would be a member of the GOP party based on my last vote. And y'all know that would be a wolf in sheeps clothing. I would not be surprised if Kap grabbed a Dem ballot. Not much was in play on the GOP side in Texas. Kap is a knowledgable voter who knew as much or more about the Dem candidates. But his values, and those of who we would call a "dem party member" are probably not the same. Is the system really correct when anyone can select either party nominee?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2008 -> 11:48 AM) It is a MLB policy to open the locker room to the press, and its only for a certain amount of time. If JR and every White Sox player and employee had their choice, a member of the press would never be in the clubhouse. I agree. For most players the press is an unwelcome part of the job. But it is a big part of the job. And almost every job has it's not so much fun part. But to cash those checks they know it comes with the territory. And if you do it very well, they reap some big benefits. By most accounts Michael Jordan was no choir boy. But he carefully guarded his image. He was engaging with the press, always acted like a pro in and around the court. And years after his retirement he still does more commercials than any active player. The guys get it. They understand it. Better then most fans.

It's about the symbolism and a characterization. While it may seem this is a private locker room, it is not. And they know that. Imagine if Thome put this up in his living room. It is an absurd thought. But as YASNY stated about an hour and 100 posts ago, they put it up in all of our living rooms. And whether it should, or should not, have been reported, everyone there knew it could and probably would. Again no surprise. At best, it was a stupid gesture by (probably) a newer player without the experience to know what a s*** storm could ignite. At worse it acted out some horrible deep seated hatred of women. And to make points, we all pushed the envelope to make our points. Was some of the reactions out of scale? Yes. And to both extremes. Most older Sox fans will be embarrassed. Not because we're some PC crazed, no sense of humor, morons. But because we understand the social conventions of society. How we are not in a vacuum, but reactions spread. This could reverberate like Disco Demolition or the cheap beer promo against Detroit. Just one more embarrassing black eye for the franchise. And for those of us with a few decades invested in this team, we know how these things cling for far too long.