Vance Law

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 12:56 AM) putting nobody there costs $0. I think that's a better option than either Vizquel or Uribe at this point. Granted. And that idea sounds good on paper at first look. But if you think about it a little more, having no shortstop out there would leave a pretty big hole on the left side of the infield. It would be as if you were playing with one less player, and I could see a lot of ground balls getting through right there. Also, then, when the SS is supposed to bat, there would be no one there. You're probably looking a high strikeout rate with not a batter, even if he's hitting 9th.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 08:36 PM) I can think of a cheaper, younger version with a lot of power and better defense, he's already in our system. If you are looking for a power hitting backup OF who can play right field. Craig Wilson?

While, yeah, that's a slow team, how many AL teams don't have a slow 1B, C, DH, corner outfielder? AJ has hit 3rd when Thome's out and 5th otherwise for the purpose of separating the lefty and righty hitters. This is why Fields is hitting second, rather than 6th which would otherwise be a better spot for him.

QUOTE(Stan Bahnsen @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 04:20 PM) a righty 4th outfielder who can play RF is acquired. Slammin' Sammy!!!

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 09:52 AM) I'm going to be so f***ing pissed if they go out and sign Vizquel. He seriously needs to retire, he'll be 41 next year and has been absolutely dreadful this season. Though, his age 39 season was ideal for what we need- .360 OBP 24 steals. Pretty good at 37 and 38, too. Is he done? Can he rebound? I don't know. You don't know. It's a crapshoot. Is Vizquel worse than Uribe this season? Will he be next season? What are better options at SS, and what are their costs in dollars/trade?

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) So pretty much Thome has the White Sox handcuffed? If you call being the best hitter on the team handcuffing, then yes.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) Really? Now I think you're stretching things a bit. Even after Vazquez' last start, he still ranks 22nd in baseball in Pitcher VORP. What pitcher could you get for ~$10 million a season that would be a top 25 pitcher in all of baseball? I'd even take that further and argue Vazquez is better than several of the pitchers ahead of him -- what would Javier Vazquez be doing if he was pitching in the PETCO? Or even just in the NL? If Vazquez happens to pitch like he has this year over the life of the contract, there's only a handful of pitchers who I'd rather have over him. Very good points. Vazquez for Young was a good trade. If you have just won the World Series, take a gamble with some of your future in order to help yourself now and try to win again. Vazquez has been the better and more valuable baseball player this year. He obviously was last year as well (Young in the minors), though he was around a league average starter (you need to account for the ballpark, pitching at Comiskey is not the same as pitching at Petco). We had just won the World Series solely because of our pitching, all season and in the playoffs. Pitching is a crapshoot. Williams fortifies the starting rotation with another innings horse with great stuff who's had some awesome seasons. Duque was unable pitch more than 4 innings by the end of 05 and he sure seemed done (though he's proved he's not, he surely wouldn't put up the numbers he is if he were still in the AL...and at Comiskey). Smart move to me. Go with the surer bet at starter, risk a prospect to win now. Williams improved the offense (Thome + BAnderson 06 beats Everett + Rowand 05 by a longshot), and (on paper) the pitching in the offseason coming off the World Series. People also seem to assume we misevaluated and gave away the wrong player in Young, when it is likely the case that Arizona demanded Young. It was clear that Young was the best of he, Sweeney, Anderson, Owens over the long haul, but that one of them would (and still may) be a valuable player. Could Anderson put up a .736 OPS like Young has this year if he's not injured? I think he could get close.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) Our ballpark does seem to give up a lot of homers fixed

QUOTE(The Critic @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 02:51 PM) They said the 3 off Randy in August of 05 was the last time. That time too, if you'll recall, Widger hit a fourth homer in that inning. Grand slam I think.

Rally. Fields. Oh my

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2007 -> 05:20 PM) A back-up outfielder should be the easiest position in the majors to fill, especially with guys in the minors. Having to play Gonzalez the last few days in LF against a righty makes me cry. Then you, like, cry really easily. And Gonzalez isn't a backup outfielder. He's the backup every position (plays a much better shortstop than Sweeney) since Ozuna went down and Mack got traded. And we are carrying 13 pitchers right now. And Pods and Thome are hurt. And these games don't mean anything.

At 56-70, right now we're sitting on the #2 draft pick next year. That would be our highest pick since Baines. I kind of would like that.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) His slugging is way down. More importantly, he's been awful against right handers: .236/.349/.398/.747 He has more than three times as many atbats against right handers than left handers so I would say that's not very good. Not sure where you're getting those numbers from. When I look at ESPN, he's batting an awesome .300/.463/.591/1.054 against righties. Basically twice as many at bats against righties as lefties.

Tangentially related to this (things on offense that have value not quantified by OPS), Bill James has come up with a stat for baserunning (which does not include SBs or CSs). It is a Plus/Minus number which incorporates: 1st to 3rd on a single, scoring from second, scoring from 1st on a double, bases taken (on wild pitch, passed ball, balk, sac fly, defense indif., baserunning outs (not caught stealings), runs scored as % of times on base (excl. home runs). The best in 2006 were: 1. Figgins Utley Ellis O Cabrera DeJesus Reyes Teahan Tavares Beltran 10. Hanley R Damon Sizemore Pierre C. Patterson 15. Pods M Giles J Michaels Grudzi Flopez 20. C Guillen Melky C Brandon Fahey Steve Finley 24. Victorino The worst: 1. Willingham Adrian Gonz Piazza Big Frank Giambi Ryan Howard Burrell Hafner V. Martinez 10. Juan Rivera Crede Johjima Sexon Javy Lopez 15. Posada Willy Aybar Jermaine Dye B Molina M Jacobs 20. Jacque J Millar Lowell McCann Konerko 25. Khalil

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 02:33 AM) Of course, along the exact same kind of logic, he can go 2 for 4, get caught stealing once, and GIDP. That's 2 total bases, but essentially he went 1-4 while making 4 outs. Yes, those caught stealings are taken into account in Total Average, right? That link isn't working for me. QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 02:33 AM) And OPS is important for leadoff hitters. There's a reason why Reyes, Hanley, Rollins, Sizemore, Granderson, et al, are all good leadoff hitters, and it's not solely because of their speed and on base ability. Being in scoring position is just as important as being on base; if you're on 1st base, you can be a world class sprinter and it still takes 2 singles to get you home. If you are on 2nd base, you can get score on one hit. Hence, slugging. Yes, those guys you mention plus Soriano, Crawford and potentially Chris Young are, like, 8 of a kind. We don't have any of them (anymore) and nobody's going to trade them to us. They are awesome players. The fact that they have the speed and they have OPSs that range from good to excellent accentuates how valuable they are. My point is that for players like the ones I mentioned (Pierre, Owens, Pods, Tavares)- relatively wuss-hitting speedsters, it makes little sense to look at a stat like OPS which excludes their single most important skill- a skill that does have a lot of value in the endeavor of scoring runs. I'm with you- I wish we had Sizemore instead of Owens. He's a better player. Pods had an OPS of .677 in 2004. That's not a good OPS. But OPS doesn't capture the large amount of value of going 70 for 83 in stealing bases. OPS is a very valuable stat, but it is least valuable and informative for these types of players. Just like "# of times scoring from second base on a single" for Frank Thomas does not capture his most valuable tools. When Thome hits a solo homer his OPS for that event is 5.000. When Owens gets a bunt single, steals a base, and scores from second on a sharp single to the outfield (if Cora sent AJ, he'd have been thrown out. and Cora would have sent AJ), his OPS is 2.000. The disparity between those two numbers is greatly disproportionate to the players' respective actual contribution towards scoring that run.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 10:49 PM) Uh, Owens is still bad if you take that into consideration. Sure. I wasn't saying that Owens numbers are great, or that a good base stealer's "OPS' would compare well to, say, a slugger when taking into account steals. Just that you ought to at least take them into account. Owens' numbers have been pretty darn good for a rookie since his recall in July. Batting .278 with a .322 OBP 16 SB. Obviously if he could learn to take more walks and become an even better bunter, he would be that much more of an asset.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 09:52 PM) .783 as a 23 year old leadoff man in AAA isn't exactly terrible (granted in limited ABs), he's shown a capability to work the gaps this year which is very encouraging and something that Owens has shown no signs of being capable of. He's still a project but I think he could turn into a pretty good top of the order guy. I just don't see the Sox going out and getting anyone that could hit worth a damn at the top of the order, at this rate Jerry Owens and his .600 OPS will likely be leading off next year, I'm not so sure I can tolerate that. It's kinda retarded to pay any attention to OPS for a speedster leadoff guy like Owens (Pierre, Pods, Figgins etc). My understanding is that there are stats out there (though I haven't seen them) which incorporate steals (and caught stealings) into the Total Bases number when calculating what would be the SLG component of OPS. Owens has 3 singles and 2 SBs tonight. That's just as good as a single and two doubles and an approximate stat to OPS needs to incorporate that for a base stealer.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) He cost something like $4.95 million this year, and I've never heard of a player's salary going DOWN via the arbitration process. but.... QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 03:52 PM) Not everyone is coming off of major back surgery.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Aug 18, 2007 -> 01:06 PM) Those players salaries equal: $96.625 Million (not counting the money coming in from Philly). According to the salary spreadsheet that Kalapse maintains, taking into account the $5.5 million coming from Philly for Thome, the Sox have guaranteed about $88.6 million (not including any arb guys)

Khalil instead Uribe? Looks like his numbers would be considerably better at Comiskey. Here's Greene's numbers on the road for 3 years (2004-2006). AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 676 105 187 60 3 30 96 50 16 132 6 3 .277 .340 .507 .847 We'd only be giving up a year of Garland, saving $$ to spend elsewhere. Plus, how long till Greene's eligible for free agency?

nevermind, I now see no one knows.

Just got back to watching the game. Could anyone tell me what happened to Thome. It is brutal sifting through everyone's responses/complaints.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) That's such bulls*** though....it's such an excuse being stated by KW. Milwaukee and Atlanta had no problem giving up highly rated prospects for players. KW is HORRIBLE at trading veterans for prospects, end of story. I'm not looking forward to the excuses we'll hear in the press tonight if nothing happens. I'm sure you will be embarrased by your comments when you realize that Texeira has a year and 2 months on his contract (and maybe a club option, can't remember) and is a lot younger than Dye and is not hitting just .230. Dye, on the other hand, has 2 months left, is going on 34 and is hitting about .230.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 28, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) KW accepts one A ball 21 year old for a solid second baseman who is in the middle of his prime (age wise.) It is beyond rediculous to claim this was a bad trade and use, as support, things like Iguchi is "in the middle of his prime" or was "an all-star second baseman" (as someone else did) while deliberately, or out of ignorance, failing to mention such facts as: -Iguchi is not having a good year, hitting just .250 with 6 home runs -It is not the trade of a second baseman with several years remaining on a contract at a reasonable price in exchange for a single A pitcher, but rather a second baseman (having a bad year) who will give you 2 months of service -There was basically no market for second basemen until Utley broke his hand the other day (yes Valentin got hurt, but the Mets have enough in-house options so as to not need to trade) -he will cost about $1 million for the rest of the season - The Phillies only need him for (not 2 months, but) 1 month until Utley is back- the likely difference between whoever the Phils would otherwise have played at 2B for the next month, and Iguchi (hitting .250 this year) is extremely minimal- a handful of hits perhaps, thus making the Phillies demand even lower -When Iguchi goes to free-agency the Sox get no compensation picks

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) The best possible option overall might be to pencil Josh into LF for the 1st half next season if Joe is ready to play. If somehow we manage to hold onto Joe, that would give him 3 months or so to rebuild his trading value before the deadline so that he could be moved for something valuable. If he's pain-free, it makes no sense to non-tender him this offseason at least to me. If he comes out and struggles next year, then try to dump him. He'll be pretty cheap for someone for a 1/2 season anyway. The only issue is how much money we're willing to spend to hold onto Joe this offseason, and admittedly, that's the tricky part. I agree with all of this. We have offensive holes in the outfield which Josh would certainly help with. Crede as a 1 yr rental coming off back surgery has little to know trade value unless he can play and put up some numbers. His upside (2006) is waaaaaaay higher than his value to any other team (before he proves he's healthy).