bigruss

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:19 PM) I guess. But it's funny that this debate crops up regarding Konerko vs. D-Lee, two guys who are the same age and very simliar stat-wise. I like the one with the more recent great year, i'd pay a little extra if i'm sure my owner is willing to keep payroll high... but that is I guess me. Did you see DLees great 2009?? You're paying more for a lesser player with defense in consideration. If you're fine with an obvious fan bias getting in your way I guess this discussion is lost.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) Well honestly I would respect a GM that runs their team that way, but do you want to have a respectable strategy, or have a strategy similar to those of several consistently winning organizations? I have to look at winning teams that stray from the bargain spending philosophy and still win. They pay what it takes to keep their target from going to another team. I want to be one of those organizations. I'd side with you if I doubted JR was committed to winning and paying, but right now he's possibly going to set our payroll record, so I am hopeful for 2011-2013. We're not a bunch of over the hill guys. There's a lot of in-their-prime on this roster. Unless, of course, they target the wrong player and it comes back to screw them. Than no, I don't want my team to be like that.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) If Paulie's year last year means nothing then I guess it's impossible to combat your point. I'm basically saying that the extra 6M in 2013 is worth it to me if it means I'm getting the better player. PK does his damage against AL pitching. Lee should do better against NL pitching if he's going to be my 1B on a championship team. Great organizations very often have to pay a guy an extra year who may be past his prime. If you are a team with a dedication to winning-level payroll year in year out, that is one of the risks. I'm not saying you pile up crappy contracts, but as someone said earlier, right now we have this 2014-2020 payment and the money we're on the hook for regarding Linebrink. Over time, that's not a lot for someone like JR. DLee was fantastic against NL pitching, and has been just as good vs. AL pitching. Dlee is a more complete player, and will most likely be worth more than Konerko.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) If Paulie's year last year means nothing then I guess it's impossible to combat your point. Exaggeration, but you look at the past 3 years or so and project the next 3 years, and you definitely don't get what Konerko did last year meaning you don't pay him solely based off of last year.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:46 PM) The way you tell it, Lee had the MVP caliber year last year, not PK. I'd have been all for Lee if the price were going to be super cheap. But what Lee put up stats-wise in the NL is clearly below PK's current functioning level. Also, again, jersey sales are of worth to the Sox. That's basically advertising for them. They want tons of Sox jerseys all around the city. Dumping PK means these jerseys are no longer worn out and about, starting conversations around the city (and north side). Jersey-wearers are walking commercials for the White Sox, and this is an area they want to improve to help buzz for their team. In that sense you want the team leader staying. Teams do care about getting their logo out there, they go through pains to present it in various ways for a reason. I see Dlee and Konerko both putting up around an .850 OPS next year. Considering DLee>>>>Konerko in defense, and that you dont have such a large commitment in years or salary, plus the draft picks, it makes too much business and baseball sense. Dlee is regarded as one of the best teammates around.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:35 PM) Have to agree. In pretty much all ways but sentimentality, DLee was the better option. But, the good things is, Paulie is not "bad", he's just not the smartest choice for this contract. You shouldnt give a contract over $30 mm because the player isn't "bad." JR paid because of loyalty, not because of a baseball decision.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) Every year there are tons of young kids buying new jerseys. Paulie is the team's leader, one of the most likely jerseys for these new consumers to be into. Lee would be coming in as an unknown. Lets also remember this -- even though I'm not one of them, there are those people out there who will run out to buy the new Sox road grey simply because the sleeve change on the old one is now unauthentic. Once again, jerseys are part of league revenue sharing, the Sox will only see as much as other teams when it come to increased jersey sales. Signing Lee would be big news in Chicago, and adding a good bullpen would undoubtedly put the Sox in discussions for winning the Central, that is what puts people in the seats. If we have to trade a starter now than are chances are hurt big time.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 12:43 PM) Still doesn't change my point. I'd take him over Quentin for defense and price. Jones could be looking at a decent pay raise, fwiw.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 12:43 PM) On the surface we can say this, but in truth we have no idea right now what creates flexibility or doesnt. Does having Konerko jerseys to sell create payroll flexibility for next year? Does increased 2011 attendance create flexibiliity more than Derrek Lee contract savings do? Those are possibilities. Paulie gets paid because he builds on last year's team to create excitement (read: ticket sales) for next year. Bringing in Lee alienates the silly no-Cub-should-ever-be-a-Sox people, as well as hampers excitement about the 3-4-5 in our lineup a bit. People with those beliefs buy tickets, as well as the people who consider PK their hero and their kids' hero. In JR's world payroll flexibility is more complex than just saying, oh crap, that's 6M in 2013 that we won't be able to spend. Jersey sales are part of league revenue sharing, so really no change. Attendance depends on if this team wins, pretty simple.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 01:36 PM) Is your concern that he'll be unable to play 1B and produce in year 3? Or that there are going to be tons of holes we can't fill by year 3 and will want that money? The way I see it, there is a decently aged core and some money coming off the books by then that will mitigate that. And our best prospect is a 1B. YOu just helped his argument then you know. Having another contract that expires along with others next year gives you flexibility to re-up with players or to blow it up. And with everyone leaving, these extra draft picks wouldve been nice to help rebuild the system. Plus, as you mention, Dayan would be ready to fill in after a year. DLee was just a flatout better option.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 12:10 PM) Great point about the draft picks. But how often do you get a chance to sign a guy who contended for the MVP at this price? Other teams surely were not given this sweet deal for the third year deferring. If GMs are to take advantage of unique situations and pounce, then I'd call this deferring a little more advantageous than getting boom-or-bust-very-often-bust MLB draft picks. DLee contended for more MVPs than Konerko.

QUOTE (Capn12 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 11:02 AM) 30 doubles, 30 homers, .350 OBP, Definitive Team Captain...thats reason enough for the pricetag. I mean, Dunn and Konerko both for under $30 mill a year and people are still complaining? Why can't people be concerned that Konerko will regress big te, or that his hip comes back and haunts him, or his chonic thumb problem that he gets shots for throughout the year starts to get much worse? I think there is a ton of risk in this deal and I think DLee will be better than Konerko. Throw in the draft picks and setting up an opening for Dayan and signing DLee just made to much sense.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:56 AM) Debbie Downer! Everybody is happy now but when the Sox start claiming they have 50 cents again especially after that spending surge than we all will be looking back and saying a 3 yr deal with Konerko was not a good idea and that a shorter one with an equivalent DLee wouldve been better, and we'll miss those draft picks. Really not trying to rain on the parade, I just don't see this working out well nor do I think this was close to the best move for the Sox.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:51 AM) in today's market a 5th place MVP candidate at a power position should make more than 12M per. The third year could hurt obviously but we have no way of knowing. It could also hurt to have Kerry Wood on a multiyear deal. In a whole different way. Besides 2010, what year in that 5 yr deal was Konerko a top 5 MVP cand.? He had a great year but got paid for that year and not the past 5 and def. Not for the next 3, as in he won't be worth what he will be paid. Oh and bye Dayan.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:18 PM) Extremely vague i know, but: Anyone else out there up for getting Cust cheaply. A Cust/Viciedo battle for 1B (can Cust play it?) and then acquire an outstanding reliever of some sort w/ the extra dough. A good 1B will have much more impact than a good reliever, and won't cost too much more (if you're looking at DLee vs. Soriano, it will actually be alot cheaper).

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 10:18 PM) So having surgery to fix a problem that bothered him all year is going to make him worse? Didnt Konerko go through something similar?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 09:56 PM) I'm surprised no one mentioned that all we need is a stop gap player at the position if Paulie leaves like you just did. I'm just more comfortable with a healthier player in his prime than an old guy who's had injury problems with recent surgery on his thumb. His fielding is superior but doesn't matter much if he hurts himself in the process. And we all know how coming off surgery on a hand can affect hitting a baseball. I know LaRoche is considered average at his position but his road splits aren't much different than his home splits and that counts for something when playing in AZ. Why commit to an average player when you can risk going for a much better player on a shorter contract, and hope that your best positional prospect is ready to take over fully next year. Makes too much sense.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 09:31 PM) If Konerko goes elsewhere why does everyone like D. Lee so much better than Adam LaRoche ? LaRoche is 4 years younger than both Kornerko and Lee. Better defense, by far. DLee is an outstanding individual and a better player.

DLee will be more available than Konerko next year, and should be at least $5 million less (depending on Konerko's contract). Plus both being great teammates and citizens, I think it's a pretty easy decision. Sorry Konerko, loved what you did here but it's apparent you want to go elsewhere. Thank you for the memories, I wish you luck where ever you go. Now go improve the team KW, and make the right move. Sign DLee

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 07:42 PM) They are similar players offensively, DLEE is head and shoulders better defensively. And with DLEE you net 2 draft picks and probably one or two pen arms. Possibly 3 draft picks depending on DLees upcoming year.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 06:27 PM) in the last two years PK has more than twice the number of plate appearances. Who cares about early in their careers? DLee is injury prone, PK is not Twat was that? From 2008-2010, # of PAs: DLee: 1939 PK: 1766

My grandma is really failing in health, the doctors just said they would be amazed if she makes it to Christmas and my relatives are saying she looks just terrible right now. She's my only grandparent and is just the sweetest lady. My dad apparently was crying today, in my 20 years of being alive I have never seen him shed a tear, I just feel awful.

I doubt it will be anything new, but updates will be appreciated for those near a tv.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 06:41 PM) Honestly, I couldn't be happier right now. If PK comes back, then great, he's my favorite Sox player ever. If it's Lee and 1-2 relievers, then that's perfect also. This.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 06:31 PM) I have a Jeff Liefer rooking card. Don't tell anyone else i said that. How could I? I don't know what rooking is!