JUGGERNAUT

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/ New York Daily News: "There are several names making the rounds of the baseball grapevine, such as Atlanta's Russ Ortiz, Colorado's Jason Jennings, Seattle's Jamie Moyer and Pittsburgh's Kris Benson... The Yankees also are holding out hope that Arizona's Randy Johnson becomes available if the Diamondbacks, who are the second-worst team in the National League, keep plummeting. Some Yankee officials believe that Johnson wants out, despite assertions by Arizona's owners that Johnson won't be traded." Well Bf brought this up before, so how about it? Should the SOX trade for RJ? There is no question in my mind they can offer Arizona a better pkg than any team vying for his services. It's a big money pickup but Johnson is that marquee name that could very well sell out every start. I kid you not. Just look at D-backs attendance when he pitches & look at attendance on the road when he pitches. This could be the big shot in the arm the White Sox need to steal the front pages from the cubs. The smart money is that Johnson would pay for himself. Meaning the added revenue would still leave the Sox with a profit after paying Johnson. A flight from O'Hare is a lot closer to AZ than NYC. I think it's a win-win. The only question I have to ask about this is why wouldn't Texas go after him? Thanks to the White Sox they can put together a nice pkg as well & they certainly have the $. Dallas is much closer to AZ than Chicago or NYC.

Forget the LH Moyer. Because of bonuses in his contract, whoever trades for him owes him a 3 million base in 2005. If he pitches over 200 in this season, he's going to cost 7.5 million for 2005. He's presently at 97 ip, so 200 is certainly w/in reach. I don't see the SOX trading for him at a total cost of 10 mil (what they owe 2004, & 2005).

The LH Moyer has a wierd contract: Seattle gave him a $1.5 million signing bonus, $6 million in 2003, $6.5 million in 2004 and $1.5 million in 2005. He can earn an addition $6 million in the final season -- $1.5 million based on starts in 2003 and $4.5 million based on innings in 2004. His base in 2005 is 3 million. He's earned the 1.5 mil based on starts in 2003. But it can balloon to 7.5 million based on innings. I would imagine that kind of a bonus is based on 200 ip. He's presently at 97 so I think he's definitely got a shot at it. I think that's too costly for the White Sox in 2005 (

Dan Wilson, 41 yr old Pat Borders, & Ben Davis. Those were the catchers for Seattle. Based on talks with other teams it came down to Crede or Olivo to get this trade done. There's no way the SOX give up Crede with his best 1/2 still to come. He consistenly posts a +200 gain in OPS in the 2nd half.

http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...s_sea&fext=.jsp "I wasn't going to do anything in Chicago, so decided to come here," said Olivo, acquired from the White Sox on Sunday afternoon for right-handed pitcher Freddy Garcia and Davis. Seattle also received minor league outfielder Jeremy Reed, considered the best prospect in the White Sox farm system, and infielder Mike Morse. "It was sad for me when it happened, but I feel comfortable here," he said. "I hope I can be here for a long time." "(Manager Ozzie Guillen) took me out and I didn't know why," Olivo said. "But I knew something was going on." When told of the deal, he was so shaken that he wouldn't talk about it with the media. "I felt depressed and had something in my throat," he said. "Actually, it was probably the hardest conversation I've had with a player because of my respect for Miguel, the ballplayer and the man," said White Sox general manager Ken Williams of informing Olivo of the trade. "The fact that I also know his sensitive nature, it was as though I was telling one of my sons something very disparaging," Williams added. "It was a very difficult conversation for both of us to get through." The scouting report on Olivo says he runs well for a catcher (he stole 29 bases for Double-A Birmingham in 2002), has some power and a terrific arm. "He's a 70 on a scale of 20 to 80," Melvin said of Olivo's catching ability. One too many: There will be three catchers on the active roster for a few days, but veteran Pat Borders probably will return to Tacoma. "Pat has done a great job, but we don't need three catchers," Melvin said. "He understands what's going on and he probably enjoys playing more in Tacoma than he does just sitting here." Borders is batting .316 (6-for-19) since celebrating his 41st birthday on June 11.

I'm happy but I want the LH Moyer here as well. His 2001 post season 3-0 2.6 era is just the kind of experience we need on the SOX to win more than just the division. I want to go to battle in Oct with Garcia, Buehrle, E-LO, & Moyer. So KW pick up the phone again & bug the s*** out of the Seattle GM until Moyer is a member of the White Sox. We know we can outbid the Yanks on talent

Keep in mind that ATL is not white flagging. They are simply trading defense + pitching for power because they believe they have the young players to compensate for the loss of d+p. They were looking at Maggs for the stretch drive & not to white flag.

I'll say it again. I'd rather have Moyer than Ortiz. The LH Moyer has a 2001 post season record of 3-0 w a 2.6 era. Much better than Ortiz 2003 era post season era of 5.06. I don't know what it would cost to get Moyer from the white flagging M's but I'm not willing to give up Marte or Shingo. I think he should come cheaper than that as a rent a player. I look at a rotation of .. Garcia Buerhle E-Lo Moyer Garland/Show & say the division is ours with the only contending team with 2 strong LHers. Then I look at the front 4 & say I'll go to war in the post season with them against any body. So I'd be looking at the M's right now so we can piss the Boss off again. He was so upset over losing Garcia he called a meeting late last night. Poor Cashman. What's he to say when the cubboard of young talent is growing oh so bare?

Look I know you want to keep Maggs for the stretch drive but you seemed to forget that ATL is not out of the NLE by a long shot. They are 4.5 gb & Beckett's on the DL. They're on a two game winning streak & are playing about as good as FL & PHI right now. I don't think any one fears the Mets in that div so ATL can hardly justify a white flag trade. The Maggs+players for Jones+Ortiz+players makes sense for both teams because ATL is essentially trading defense for power. It's a move they make for both the present & the future. I don't see Kenny giving up Marte or Shingo because they are becoming the best setup+closer combo in the league. But just about everybody else is fair game. ATL was expected to throw in cash in the original deal to cover Ortiz salary. They were going to pick up Maggs remainder & the SOX pick up Jones remainder. Now the SOX might be able to pull Estrada away by picking up Ortiz remainder. This is where JR would really be pony up the bucks. He's already picked up about 2 mil in cost between what was saved on Koch & what's being spent on Garcia. To pick up Ortiz would be another 3 mil. Ortiz is a FA so he'd definitely be a rent a player. To be honest I don't know if he's that much of an upgrade over Garland. I'd rather have the LH Moyer. LH Moyer: 8 quality starts, 4 winnable starts, 4 poor starts. 2001 post season starts: 3-0 & about a 2.6 era. It's that kind of experience that I think would help the SOX further in the post season then Ortiz.

Players most likely to be moved: "Pittsburgh's Kris Benson is the Yanks' most reachable target. Atlanta's Russ Ortiz is not yet available. Jamie Moyer, David Wells, and Miguel Batista could be moved before the July 31 trade deadline." One high-level scout believes the modest list of available arms ultimately will include Atlanta's Russ Ortiz and Jaret Wright, Colorado's Jason Jennings and Shawn Estes, Milwaukee's Ben Sheets, Pittsburgh's Kip Wells and Toronto's Pat Hentgen, Miguel Batista and Ted Lilly. Anaheim's Ramon Ortiz also could pique the Mets' interest." I am shocked to see Ben Sheet's name in that list. I'm pissing myself over the possibility of the White Sox getting Ben Sheets through the Selig - JR connection.

The full story on the Yanks pursuit of Garcia: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yan...ports-headlines The Yankees had targeted Garcia as their top option in upgrading their starting rotation, but they didn't have the prospects to make the righthander theirs - infuriating The Boss. "They didn't think we could match it, or beat it," Cashman said of Chicago's offer for Garcia. "After I saw the trade, I agree with them. I thought the Mariners made a heck of a trade." If the Johnson mission fails, the Yankees will have to choose from a pool of lesser pitchers that could include Seattle lefthander Jamie Moyer, Atlanta righthander Russ Ortiz and Pittsburgh righthander Kris Benson. The Mets probably would not hand over the highly successful Tom Glavine to the Yankees, even if the Mets fall out of the National League East race. "We're not in a situation, in my opinion, where we have to do something," Cashman insisted. "What we have to do is get [Jon] Lieber going right now."

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/ Atlanta Journal-Constitution (registration required): "Most Braves hadn't heard trade rumors involving Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz until they got to the stadium Sunday and heard from reporters. But none seemed surprised, even that the once-untouchable Jones could be involved." Los Angeles Times (registration required): "On Sunday, after a meeting in which Angel Manager Mike Scioscia told Ramon Ortiz that he would return to the bullpen, Ortiz again asked the Angels to trade him." Newark Star-Ledger (registration required): " According to a person close to Steinbrenner, The Boss called an impromptu between-games meeting and then another meeting after the second game ended at 11:38 p.m... The two names most prominently discussed were those of another Seattle starter, 41-year-old veteran left-hander Jamie Moyer, and Atlanta Braves right-hander Russ Ortiz." Apparently he's a little miffed we got Garcia

As I understand, Moyer will likely be available soon as well. He would be a substantial upgrade over Schow as a LH in the rotation & he wouldn't cost nearly as must as Ortiz or Garcia. In other words if Maggs is staying then Moyer is the next logical target.

Benson+Kendall makes no sense to me. Benson is pitching worse than Garland. We'd be better off getting Wells back in that deal. Jones .243 is a little under-rated. He's got an 856 OPS & double digit HR's. He's striking out more & I think Walker can help with that. The SOX overall are a patient bunch at the plate & I think that would have a big effect on Jones. If you can get past the strikeouts Jones is a very strong hitter vs RH. That's the biggest weakness in the SOX lineup. Rowand is terrible against RH, & Harris/Perez is not much better. I really don't think there's an arm on Pitts that is better than any starter we have.

I don't think Kenny believes he can win a World Series with Garcia, Buehrle, E-Lo, & Garland/Schow. I don't think he really believes that. So he's got to get another starter if he wants more than the division. Jon has pitched good in his last 3 outings but his defense has cost him the wins. He's still a mental case for a short series. Schow was pitching solid before the back spasms which brought on the inflamation. Again that's a big risk for a short series. Ortiz is the only logical option for what we've heard in trade rumors. Benson is a horrible option & I don't see Kenny rolling the dice there. He might be willing to get Kip Wells back but Garland has pitched better than Wells. Mesa is the only viable arm Kenny might want from Pitts. I don't think that Kenny should pull any trigger right now. With Contreras pitching better for NY they will be less inclined to go after Ortiz. I think Kenny has the time now to work the best deal possible for Ortiz.

Remember web-gems get major air play on ESPN & in the news. With Lee, Jones, & Rowand the SOX might see a web-gem a week. That's certainly marketable. I think the catches Jones would make in CF would make him an instant fan favorite. If Walker can get him to cut down the strikeouts (very possible on this team) then he might be the best position player on the SOX in 2005. That's pretty good for about 1/2 the cost of Maggs. Likewise this is the best time to do because Maggs has been on the DL for so long he's starting to resemble the forgotten man.

They won't have to spin it. If the Mets rumor of 140/8 is realistic for Maggs or Beltran than the final offer for Maggs' services will be way out of the SOX league. Getting Andruw Jones in CF at the cell for about 12 mil a yr thru 2007 is the smart move. Especially if Ortiz can be signed to less than 6 mil a yr. Rowand's improvement gives the SOX an option of Lee, Jones, & Rowand. That would make it one of the best D OF in one of the best hitter's ball parks. Sounds like a winnin g combination to me.

Crede has been consistently a prime-time player in the 2nd half. 2003: pre-AS .692 (he's currently at .744) OPS 2003: pos-AS .892 2002: pos-AS .826 (912 in Sep) 2001: pos +200 better than pre Considering he's nearly +50 over this time a year ago, & then posted +200 better I'm glad Kenny didn't give up Joe yet. He's going to have a big 2nd half.

The presence of 2 LHers in the rotation makes it much harder for opposing teams. The SOX are one of the best teams against LHers. Most of the ALC is pretty weak against them. F Garci starts: 11 quality, 2 winnable, 3 poor M Bueh starts: 9 quality, 2 winnable, 5 poor R Ortiz starts: 9 quality, 2 winnable, 5 poor E Loaiz starts: 7 quality, 4 winnable, 4 poor J Garla starts: 7 quality, 3 winnable, 5 poor S Scho starts: 5 quality, 5 winnable, 4 poor Still don't think we need Garcia & Ortiz?

Johnson has a no-trade clause & the last time he was asked about it he said I'm happy ending my career with Arizona. It would be great to add him but it's out of the D-backs hands. They owe him more deferred $$$ than any other team owes another player.

ESPN.com mlb news: Acquired from San Francisco last offseason for left-hander Damian Moss and a minor leaguer, Ortiz was 21-7 with a 3.81 ERA in 34 starts for Atlanta in 2003. Ortiz, 29, earned $4.6 million in 2003, and the club option was for $5.7 million in 2004. He can become a free agent after that. The extra 500K must have been some kind of bonus that kicked in. He's presently at 6.2 mil. Ortiz is definitely a rent a player but I don't think he will be unsignable for the White Sox. Garcia, Buehrle, Loaiza, Ortiz, Schow looks pretty good. 2 LH, & 3 RH is a perfect balance for the AL. Garland,Diaz become long relief & Jackson sayonara. Pen becomes Garland, Diaz, Politte, Wunsch/Darensboug, Marte, Shingo

Andruw Jones biggest weakness is strikeouts (52 vs RH, 12 vs LH .. highest overall on Braves). Walker has done wonders with every hitter in the SOX lineup wrt to strikeouts & patience. It seems to me if the Braves are willing to throw in cash to cover Ortiz the SOX should seriously consider it if Maggs is determined to test FA.

If Cameron is worth 6 million a year primarily for his defense, then Jones is worth twice as much for his defense & offense. Plus all the numbers suggest Jones will produce a lot more in the SOX lineup than in the Braves. There's nobody on this team that doesn't hit LHers. Having that kind of coverage in the lineup is definitely going to improve Jones' numbers. As for Ortiz look at his starts: 2.1ip, 3er 7.0ip, 4er 6.2ip, 1er 6.1ip, 1er 3.1ip, 7er 6.1ip, 1er 6.2ip, 2er 1.1ip, 4er 7.0ip, 0er 9.0ip, 1er 6.0ip, 5er 6.0ip, 3er 7.0ip, 2er 6.1ip, 5er 7.0ip, 0er 9 quality starts, 2 winnable starts, 5 poor starts Yes. I think we can use him. Yes. I think he's a definitely upgrade. If I did this for any of the SOX starters you would :puke.

For those who don't know: Ozzie is Freddy's future Fr-in-law. CWS starter's ERA: 5.04 Freddy Garcia's ERA: 3.20 (2.61 home, 3.91 away) Sox face Minn, cub, Ana, & Sea before the break. Sox lose Minn series, SOX 2 gb facing the cub. Sox win Minn series, SOX 1 gu facing the cub. It's a 3 game swing in the standings. Any questions?

More Andruw Jones stats: 5 GG Considered the very best CF in the game. Great jump on balls, good speed, vertical leap, considered to save the Braves many runs a year. 2004 TB splits: v RH: 97 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 27 (# 4) 2003 TB splits: v RH: 231 (# 4 on the Braves) v LH: 74 (# 3) 2002 TB splits: v RH: 258 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 29 (# 5) 2001 TB splits: v RH: 241 (# 2 on the Braves) v LH: 47 (# 3) 2000 TB splits: v RH: 295 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 60 (# 3 ) His biggest strength is clearly against RH pitchers & even his weakness against LH is still top 3 or 4 on a team as strong as the Braves. Now here's the thing to think about. With the success the SOX have had over the years against LH's the odds are that Jones will have better #'s against LH's in the SOX lineup as well. If being in the SOX lineup helps the weakest part of his game where's the downside? Magglio for Jones straight up doesn't make a lot of sense. But Magglio+Rauch+prospect for Jones+Ortiz+cash makes a lot of sense.