JUGGERNAUT

I AM DEFINITELY FOR KEEPING PITCHERS IN THE PTC !!!!!! And I am thinking of e-mailing Hawk & asking him to add the pitchers as well. <- on all those who oppose. Don't make me go on your ass!

MARK BUEHRLE MARK BUEHRLE MARK BUEHRLE MARK BUEHRLE MARK BUEHRLE The Buehrlemeister

Actually it's not 17 pts. Pitchers: 1 pt per out, -1 pt per base, -1 pt per run, + pts (ip - er) 27 + 9 = 36 max. Now it's a question of the value of the 10 hits. If they didnt' advance any runners then = 26. Even if a team won 2-0 based on a 2 run hr, it be hard to take away a CG SO performance from a starting pitcher as a PTC. Let's look at some examples: Colon 27 outs, 9 hits, 1 er, 2 w, 17 LOB. =27-17-2-1+8 = 15 pts Do you feel Colon's performance last night was worth 15 pts? Hitters: 1 pt per base & 1 base for each advancement of a runner. JV = 4, MO = 2, Mol = 5, TG =3, FT = 8, CL = 5, PK = 7, AR = 2, JC = 3 Frank Thomas with just a walk & a double with RON amassed 8 pts. Do I feel that Colon's performance was twice as good as Frank Thomas'? You bet.

In the spirit of being a non-conformist, I'm choosing a pitcher. Tonight's the night BC dominates. BARTOLO COLON BARTOLO COLON BARTOLO COLON BARTOLO COLON

MAGGLIO ORDONEZ MAGGLIO ORDONEZ MAGGLIO ORDONEZ O-E-O MAGGLIO

AA: Chris Saunders R R 6-1" 200lbs. 7/19/1970 = 819 ops, 0E Danny Sandoval R R 5-11" 180lbs. 4/7/1979 = 612 ops, 8E Gabe Alvarez R R 6-1" 200lbs. 3/6/1974 = 861 ops, 6E Guillermo Reyes S R 5-9" 160lbs. 12/29/1981 = 464 ops, 2E Josh Shaffer L R 6-1" 180lbs. 6/26/1980 = 422 ops, 7E Ryan Hankins R R 5-11" 200lbs. 6/30/1976 = 740 ops, 4E What about Saunders? It just isn't worth looking below AA. We need help now. :puke :puke on our AA infield talent - no standouts How does any organization let it self get so pathetically weak at the most important D position in baseball? <- on KW's head for letting this happen! And don't give me that Clayton s***. He wouldn't have even made a play on 1/2 the balls Jose fielding in this series.

:fyou SS, but it was clever

AAA: Aaron Miles S R 5-8" 170lbs. 12/15/1976 = 983 ops , 3E Jorge Nunez R R 5-10" 160lbs. 3/5/1975 = 538 ops , 8E Ross Gload L L 6-0" 180lbs. 4/5/1976 = 833 ops, 3E Scott Morgan R R 6-7" 230lbs. 7/19/1973 = 724 ops, 2E Tim Hummel R R 6-2" 190lbs. 11/18/1978 = 725 ops, 4E :puke , does Miles have a strong arm? Jimenez doesn't. That's why he's at 2B. Fire KW. Nunez is part of the Colon trade. What a waste of space.

I'm a non-conformist. Plus, the games always over after the 8th for the SOX O when they play on a carpet.

:puke - I've had it! I'm looking up in AAA who we have to play SS. I'm sick of this s***. Someone should make a turd emoticon because that's perfect for this team. time to go on a killing SPREE! So that I may feel TOTALLY SWEET

Oh but you do have the time to follow the game as it unfolds ... hey i only care about my pick.. and yea im watchin the damn game why shouldnt i keep up with what my pick is doing.. and i dont need to write it down on paper like your method...........geez us.. simple..... keep it simple......or else you loose everyones interest.............its only for fun anyhow so who the hell cares................. simple system for simple minds I guess. No matter how inaccurate it is.

:puke - this team is deplorably weak defensively. It has to have the worst infield defense in all of MLB & it's been this way for a while. Jose can not execute throws on a consistant basis at SS. And he sure has hell can't do any better at 3B. Either he should be playing 2B or 1B. Konerko is a complete waste. I still imagine he will have a hot June & pull those numbers up, but as you can he's a bumb more months than a star over 162 gms. Likewise, he is average D at 1B with the worst speed in MLB. Why KW's tied up 24mil in this turtle I'll never know, but hopefully his June #'s will facilitate a trade & allow us to move Jose to 1B. Carlos is more than pulling his weight in LF this yr. His throws have been accurate, he's making web gems on occasion, & he just seems over all quicker out there than previous years. I do not fault Olivo for some that got away. It's a nightmare to try & figure out the bounce on that carpet & the pitchers should NOT be throwing in the dirt there.

I'll just go ahead & call it now: E-LO wins. Val should be penalized for that error, but no ones even close to his production at the plate, so VAL's the bats PTC winner.

Not true. The scoring system for pitchers is brand new.

Oh but you do have the time to follow the game as it unfolds ...

:fyou to Gordon & Olivo. This SVCKS! Mostly to Gordon. What's he throwing in the dirt for on a carpet? Is he brain dead? 2-2, 2on, 1 out - Gordon you were just a FLASH in the pan. Trade his ass if possible & bring up Ginter. :puke

Hitters: 1 pt per base & 1 base for each advancement of a runner. Pitchers: 1 pt per out, -1 pt per base, -1 pt per run, +(ip - ra) E-LO's 6ip, 1ra has shown me that he should get value for innings pitched - runs against.

:fyou. There is no way it takes you only a a minute to calculate the PTC based on your system for a game like the balt more one when the SOX won 8-2. And now since I've created a MUCH better OBJECTIVE scoring system I think we all should strive for perfection once in a while. Perfection? Dude what do you think that this is? An invastion plan for Syria? It is supposed to be a fun contest. The simplicity of it, is so that anyone who participates can take a real quick look at the box score and see how their player did on any given day. The whole point of the system is to be user friendly, not to be the blueprint for quantitative analysis of a game. Call it arbitrary if you like, but I haven't heard anyone else complain about it. I really don't think most people do the PTC scoring themselves when they play. They leave that up to you. The fun is just picking a PTC based on whatever reasoning one decides to use & then 1) rooting for your PTC in the game, 2) seeing how you match up with the competition. I've decided on the days I'm watching the game, I'll do the scoring as the game unfolds. But on the days I don't I'll just defer to you. Where still keeping it objective but the difference is 1 is both a qualatative & quantative system & the other is just quantative.

E. Loaiza 6 8 1 1 3 3 0 94-59 = 6+5 = 11 DJ: 1+1+1 FT: 1+2 JC: 2 JV: 6+3+1 = 10 MO: 1+2+1-1 BD: 1 DM: 3+1 TG: 1-5 KW: 2 I'm thinking E-LO deserves more than 6 pts for 6ip, 1er. I don't want to reward scoreless ip, but I'm thinking maybe awarding (ip - ra) for each pitcher. That would give E-LO 11 pts. Which I think is justfiable because 6ip, 1er is a dominating start. CHICAGO SOX 1ST -D Jimenez singled to right. = 1 -J Valentin grounded out to second, D Jimenez to second. = 1 -F Thomas grounded out to shortstop, D Jimenez to third. = 1 CHICAGO SOX 3RD -J Crede doubled to deep right. = 2 -J Valentin homered to right, J Crede scored. = 6 CHICAGO SOX 5TH -Top of the 5th inning -D Jimenez walked. = 1 -J Valentin singled to center, D Jimenez to third. = 3 -F Thomas walked, J Valentin to second. = 2 -M Ordonez grounded into fielder's choice to second, F Thomas out at second, J Valentin to third. = 1 CHICAGO SOX 6TH -B Daubach walked. = 1 -Top of the 7th inning -M Olivo singled to left. = 1 -D Jimenez sacrificed to first, M Olivo to second. = 1 -M Olivo to third on wild pitch by K Lohse. = 1 -J Valentin walked. = 1 Top of the 8th -Maggs singles = 1, CS = -1

:fyou. There is no way it takes you only a a minute to calculate the PTC based on your system for a game like the balt more one when the SOX won 8-2. And now since I've created a MUCH better OBJECTIVE scoring system I think we all should strive for perfection once in a while.

Ummm .. can I be a mod? I'm sure I can fix that registration bug. I'm pretty good at that stuff. Campaigning: SS is the greatest! SS is TOTALLY SWEET!

Hitters: 1 pt per base & 1 base for each advancement of a runner. Pitchers: 1 pt per out, -1 pt per base, -1 pt per run If that is too much to remember or too complex, you need help You're kidding about this being easier right? This is so easy when you think of it as a procedure: Step 1: cut & paste game log into soxtalk post. http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLog?ga...ameId=230515104 Step 2: cut any inning non-SOX & all outs Step 3: add up the pts per inning -Bottom of the 2nd inning -M Ordonez reached on infield single to second. =1 -C Lee doubled to deep left, M Ordonez to third. = 4 -P Konerko walked. = 1 -J Crede grounded into double play, shortstop to second to first, M Ordonez scored, P Konerko out at second, C Lee to third. =2 -M Olivo walked. = 1 -F Thomas homered to left center. = 4 -C Lee walked. =1 CHICAGO SOX 5TH -Bottom of the 5th inning -D Jimenez reached on infield single to second. = 1 -F Thomas singled to left center, D Jimenez to second. = 2 CHICAGO SOX 6TH -P Konerko walked. = 1 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -W Harris singled to right. = 1 -D Jimenez walked, W Harris to second. = 2 -J Valentin walked, W Harris to third, D Jimenez to second. = 3 -F Thomas walked, W Harris scored, D Jimenez to third, J Valentin to second. = 4 -M Ordonez tripled to right center, D Jimenez, J Valentin and F Thomas scored. = 9 -C Lee singled to right center, M Ordonez scored. =2 -P Konerko doubled to left center, C Lee scored. = 4 CHICAGO SOX 8TH -F Thomas walked. = 1 -M Ordonez hit by pitch, F Thomas to second. = 2 Step 4: add the totals MO: 1 CL: 4+1+2 PK: 1 +1+4 JC: 2 MO: 1+9+2 FT: 4 +2+4+1 DJ: 1+2 WH: 1 JV: 3 Step 5: declare a PTC bat winner MO: 12 Step 6: calc arm PTC winner from box score http://baseball.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?g...ameId=230515104 B. Colon (W, 4-3) 8 5 2 2 1 5 1 88-59 3.98 = 24 -5 -2 -1 = 16 K. Wunsch 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 8-7 0.00 = 3 Step 7: declare an PTC arm winner BC: 16 Step 8: declare a PTC game winner BC: 16 It took about 3 mins to do the calcs & about 5 mins to type all this.

Time trial for 5/16/03. Start time: 2:16pm arms: MB 10 - 12 - 10 = -12 RW 5 - 9 = -4 GG 6 - 7 = -1 DS 3 - 3 -3 = -3 End time: 2:19pm Start time: 2:21pm bats: MO: 1 CL:3+3+1 = 7 JC: 1+1 SA: 1+2 DJ: 1 FT: 2 WH: 1 JV: 4 Winner: Lee End time: 2:24pm About 6 min to add it up. I'll be more than happy to do it when you can't.

Hitters: 1 pt per base & 1 base for each advancement of a runner. Pitchers: 1 pt per out, -1 pt per base, -1 pt per run If that is too much to remember or too complex, you need help

look dude, I don't have hours to figure out a long and complex system. EASY AND QUICK, just like I have been telling you all year :fyou It's easier & quicker to figure out than the current system. All you have to do is scroll through the game log & look for hits. It takes maybe 2 minutes at the most. It's a lot easier than having to calc pts based on HR, rbi, rs, h/bb, outs, & K. Plus it assigns a real value to a hit based on a game situation vs just some arbitrary generalized value. To calc the pitcher's you just have to look at the box score. Nothing could be simpler. <- on PTC author's head