JUGGERNAUT

Well they were smart to put this panel on last. Boring. Basically it's congress saying "this is what you've written" & it seems to contain loppholes as far as suspensions & public disclosure go. MLB is then responding "nobody paid much attention to those. They were grandfathered from the old policy. This is what really intend to do."

This 1 non-fiction book as spawned a library http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listm...6082266-7334316

As long as he is throwing strikes in AZ he'll be fine. HR in AZ are track outs @ the Cell.

Where is the basis for this? Everything I've read says he's a below avg 2B, SS. I couldn't find anything including G played for him at 3B. I agree they'll keep Burke & try to trade Davis. If any one wants him.

Is ignorance really bliss? Did you bother to read anything by Oakland fans when that trade happened? They warned us that Beane over-used him & they saw his velocity dropping at the end of August. It was assumed that he could get it back over that off-season but he never did. Now look at the facts. He was the Roland's man of relief that year with a high very IP number. His velocity was strong in the first half & tailed off in the 2nd. He was called upon to pitch more than one inning many times in the month of Aug of that year. It doesn't take much gray matter to connect the dots on that one :rolly

Seeing that he now plays for Baltimore, do you think there's a homer conspiracy a foot with Sosa? Here's another question I wanted to ask. Mr, Sosa we now know that both Bonds & Mac most likely were using performance enhancement substances in their historic homerun seasons. Are we to believe that you are the only person in 30 yrs who beat Roger Maris' single season HR record solely on his God given talent?

He had strong body language & advocated the strongest testing policy immediately. That was a departure from both Sosa & Schilling. As an active player that's a convincing argument. Owners, Commish are up to bat. Selig is planting the framework. Blame the MLBPA. We wanted more effective testing. They wanted less.

I'm dissapointed in one aspect of that panel's discussion. Unlike the rest of them which have a roid usage based primarily in rumor or self-admission McGuire & Sosa both have actual reported events. With respect to Mac it's the fact Andro was found in his locker. It was legal both in the game & in the land at the time so I can sympathize with Mac. With respect to Sosa it was the reported incident that he had 25,000 in cash in a paper bag stolen from him south of the border. Now a reporter did a rare thing: investigative journalism. He found it was not uncommon for athletes to bring cash to that location in a similar manner to buy sports enhancing dope. Sammy did not take the 5th. If this committee had a responsibility to find the source of the dope why didn't they throw that question at Sammy? When you couple that with the cork bat incident it's nearly impossible to believe he was doping.

They trapped Schilling at the very end making reference to his 2002 quotes that paint a picture similar to the widespread usage Jose refers to in his book. Yet today he basically denied Jose's belief it was widespread. The congressman asked him if he felt his 2002 statements were inconsistent with what he said today. Schilling didn't really answer the question. Panel dismissed.

Scoring card: JC: B+ He's effectively been able to do a 180 deg turn from his opinion as expressed in th book Juiced. The clearest example of this is a congressman stating "we'll have to wait for the sequel then". CS: C- When we first learn he would be added to the task force it seemed like the best of both worlds (top player rep + zero tolerance desire). Now he sounds like a corporate stooley speaking in mission statements in Fehr's office. RP: A+ Very convincing in his denial of roids usage & his advocacy for Olympic standards testing. Likely to be added to the task force. SS: C I don't think his appearance here does anything to change public opinion of whether he used or didn't use. The cork bat reference hurts his credibility regardless of what he says. MM: INC It matters more what McGuire does after this then what he says today. He wants us to forget his past. Fine. Then give us reason to do so in the present & near future. If he becomes an anti-doping spokesperson I'll give him a B. If he goes off & hides again I give him a D & I think that could hurt his HOF chances. FT: A - He was praised for appearing, honored by being a member of the task force, didn't have to convince anyone in his denial, & CLEARLY does not believe the current program is enough or is working. Stark contrast to Schilling. Question for fans. After hearing the panel discussions who do you feel would serve the zero-tolerance committee better? Palmiero or Schilling?

Is steroid usage as serious as gambling when it comes to players? Most - I don't know JC - Definitely more serious because of health consequences. Why is MLB more aggressive vs Rose's gambling than steroids? No one really had much to say. Any real possibility of MLB cleaning itself? CS - Reference to McCain's anger. Yes the MLBPA listens. (is Schilling is drawning a check from Fehr's office?) Why should we believe MLB & the MLBPA will do something now when they haven't done anything over the past 30 yrs? (Making reference to a past hearing date on this very subject). CS - 98.3% of us tested clean in favor of the most stringent testing that is constitutional & fair. Some woman is praising all of the players including Canseco. (Boring) How did roids help you? Mr Canseco - I had so many other physical ailments that I was a special case. W/out roids I would not have been able to perform at that level. But he can't see how a healthy person would benefit in MLB. Were you aware that you could be given a fine in lieu of a suspension for doping? N - All actives Do you have an obligation to team if you know someone is using? SS - I'm a private person Stats: 20% of 8th graders, 30% of 10th graders, 40% of 12th graders * amongst school athletes I think she was quoting her district only. Sheesh! That congressman just gave Jose an incentive to write a new book. He referred to it as the sequel. CS: Players representatives & not the players themselves ratify the agreements. fact?: If the player pays the fine the results are not made public.

Did you guess expect Schilling to show up today & basically say "There is no problem. We're handling it?" Why is he on the zero-tolerance task force again? Win at all cost mentality - sports, media, business, & politics (pacs are our roids). If we don't go deeper with this will be back her years from now. Speak to the youth: CS - Steroids is cheating & winning w/out honor has no value. MM - Steroids are wrong. Don't take them. False hope. SS - Hard work, believe in yourself. Refer to myself. JC - I made a mistake using it. Don't do it. It's not worth it. Money is not everything. MLB will not regulate themselves. When it comes to making $ they are on the same page.

Will it take an act of Congress? CS - No. Given what I've heard from the MLBPA, & Commish. RP - No. SS - No. MM - Don't know. Whatever it takes. JC - Yes. MLB evolving (parks, bats). Even w/out supplements are damn sophisticated these days. The day will come when MLB has to use alum bats. (prioritizing the shortage of lumber facing the world to be used for housing vs a game) Seriousness of the problem: CS - JC is a liar. Guess 5-10 in his playing time. RP - 1% too high. MM - don't know. SS - don't know. JC - 80% 1994-2000. Curtailed greatly after McGuire's andro scandal. If MLB doesn't do anything will you seek congressional action? CS - league will do the right thing. Y - MM, RP, SS JC - Y. It's a major mistake to expect the league to clean itself They are turning on Schilling.

Fans, say what you will about Canseco but he is presenting a voice unique to these hearings. He has no loyalty to MLB & his comments are coming across very real & very truthful. He admitted steroid usage in the past. I have to believe the statute of limitations have past in the state of CA for him to do so. There was a pause before he answered. Canseco - advocates standard uniform testing program from MLB down all the way through high school.

Should records be scrutinized with respect to steroid usage? Not for me to determine or not sure - JC, MM, SS, RP. No - CS Were you in favor of the old policy? MM - I'm retired. There was no policy when I played. JC - close to the same. CS - No. The AZ D'Backs did not agree with it. RP - Yes, but I knew more was needed. SS - I didn't hear the question. Are you role models? Y - All Scared Straight analogy - what can we do with high schoolers? RP - Players should bring the message directly to the schools. CS - drug testing & consequences needed Consequences for trainers? MM, RP, SS - Y CS - No. We are here today because of loose lips & false accusations. JC - MLB is not innocent. A Trainer may suffer greater consequences by bringing it to light than to say nothing. Why has it taken so long for MLB to act? JC - they needed my books. MM, SS, RP - I don't know. CS - policy before the book. The policy has gotten stronger after the book.

Self-regulation enough? Y - MM, RP, SS, CS. JC - N I believe they forgot about Thomas. It's not often that they deal with teleconferencing in the chamber & I think as politicians they really need the eye contact. The TV screen is on the side of the room & I doubt they can cage that. For you is the use of steroids cheating? Y - JC, SS, RP, CS. N - MM (Not for me to determine)

They got Canseco to agree to a zero-tolerance policy for MLB. That was a surprise. Lantos is awesome! (Theatre of the absurd!) - great lines! Schilling is .. for lack of a better word .. a politician for the MLBPA. Why is he on the task force again? Lantos had 2 great questions near the end: MLB adopting Olympic standards? Y - JC, MM, RP, SS. N - CS Indie testing? Y - JC, MM, RP, SS, CS Suddenly Schilling's white hat is started to look more like an MLBPA cap. He seems to be a spokespersom for the current policy. Frank on the other end referred to the current policy as simply an initial first step. That's a stark contrast to the two & only members of the zero-tolerance task force.

Changed my mind. I just read an article in Fox Sports that leads me to believe the first to go will be Ben Davis. They look at the fact that the majority of AB for JB in CL play have come at C. Trying him out at 1st & 3rd has more to do with targeting him as a strong RH bat off the bench then planning to use him as UCIF. They look at his team leading BA in CL play as a strong sign he's all but earned a spot on the 25 man roster.

Both Kenny & Ozzie made references to Uribe playing 3B. All the major baseball sites (incl fantasy) show Uribe as #2 in their depth charts/tables for 05 ChiSox. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/springStats?team=chw&year=2005 I've read a column at Fox Sports that has a different take on all this. That columnist suggests the White Sox are hoping Davis continues to look impressive in Cactus league play so other teams will take an interest in him. The column goes on to say the ChiSox are happy with Burke's hitting in CL play & are experimenting with him at 1B, 3B. It seems to suggest Burke has all but secured a spot on the rotation as a 3rd C with the intention that the team will trade Davis when the first opportunity presents itself. All of the reports I'm reading about Ozuna & Valdez is that they are not good D players. They are more along the line of avg or below avg. If you read the fantasy player reports they state that Uribe represents the only reasonable D sub for the White Sox at 3B. This might be way all of them place Uribe as #2 in the depth chart.

Testing for high school athletes seems like a no-brainer to me. When I played high school football, & swimming we were required to pass physicals. The school didn't administer it but we had to have the paperwork from our physicians to be eligible to play those sports. It seems like a no-brainer to me to simply include blood testing for not just doping but also std's & blood related diseases in these physicals for high school athletes. It seems to me that this would help greatly with those kids who grow an additiction to doping. Aside: They only made a special case for Thomas. All the rest have to appear in person. Big Frank via tele-conferencing from Tucson. Maybe Sosa doesn't understand the full range of substances that fall under doping.

More pharmacies in Tijuana than anywhere else in Mexico? Last time I looked Mexico City was home to over 20 million souls. Tijuana I think is less than a million. What's Mr Fox have to say about this?

Excellent! A corked-bat refernece! Sammy!

Holy s***! Sosa just made a statement of a 100% denial of everything! Not just steroids! He made reference to all performance enhancement substances. He said he has never put any of them in his body. I hope they ask him why he was carrying 10's of 1000's of dollars in a paper bag in that one reported incident. :headshake

MLB is not the only one to blame. Kids in all sports are doping to get an edge. That goes for high school, college, minors, & majors. If there is anything substantial to come out of these hearings it's that those making $ from sports telecasts should be responsible for educating the public & using personalities to make doping the worst thing imaginable for a kid. To me that is more important than developing testing standards that simply make it more difficult for athletes to cheat. I would like them to ask Jose Canseco, Jason Giambi, Brian Bosworth, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, & Mark McGuire whether they think any player could consistently look into the eyes of high school kids & tell them doping is horrible & then turn around & continue to dope themselves. I believe the answer would unanimously be no.

Pathetically unpersuasive. I've got to remember that line. In reference to Lantos (D) characterization of Dr Pelman's arguments.