JUGGERNAUT

6-3 KCR bot 7. Roys scored 2 in 5th, 6th, & now 7th .. they have more outs left in the 7th

I did find a glimer of hope in Borchy: vs. KCR 250/758OPS, @ Kaufmann 33AB 242/839OPS vs Finesse 250/715, & CL&L 239/762OPS First pitch wise 236/781 Behind in the count - too lousy to mention Count 2-0: 429/858, After 2-0: 280/900 Count 3-2: 250/949, After 3-2: 250/949 What's it all mean? When Joe makes contact he's a 900+ OPS player. But Joe has yet to demonstrate he can battle at the plate. Most 1-0 counts against him become 1-1 counts. If a pitcher gains the lead in the count after the 2nd pitch Joe's bad. Real bad. 1/10 avg at best. He's always been a Sosa like K-out artist but he had much more contact in AA & AAA. Can he develop a better eye in the months to come? I think we should maintain a sliver of hope he can. If he can stay healthy it's possible at least.

From ESPN Insider: -Joe's potential is immense (power from both side) -Natural ability of a superstar -Excellent work ethic -Possible #1 pick in NFL draft if not drafted by ChiSox -Always has an opening waiting on Da Bears

Joe's potential can not be measure by stats By the way it's only a sliver of hope

You're all a strange group of fans. You seem to delight in trashing ChiSox players. I maybe the only fan left who still has hope in Borchy but you guys have all but flushed the toilet on him. Go Joe! 3-2 Sox after 4

There is a big difference between BMac's #'s & Stewarts in ST. BMac's ERA is a reflection of his throwing strikes w almost no walks. Stewarts did demonstrate any where near that control.

I think you got that the other way around. Glaus(854OPS) at 3B, Tracy(750 OPS) at 1B. They were ready to trade RJ to ultimately get Koney this winter so I don't think Tracy's an unmovable part. I checked other possible suitors for Koney(825OPS) & the LAD remain a strong candidate. Florida is out with Delgado but I don't see how they will be able to afford Burnett Beckett, Delgado, & Lowell in 06. They'll be looking to dump if they're not in contention. A backup plan would be Crede+Garland to Florida for Lowell. That's the most obvious $ dump for Florida with Delgado on board. But the Sox need improved play by both Crede & Garland to push that to the forefront for Florida. It's needless to say that the trade value of Koney, Crede, Garland, & Contreras give the ChiSox several options to upgrade the team for the stretch drive. More so than other teams. Rent a player options are less likely so an upgrade this year will likely stick thru 07. That's the main point of the thread.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw - This might be better. It at least has the appearance of updating the action on the base pads. 0-0 after 1

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=250316107 Anybody got a better link? Diaz vs Gobble 0-0 bot 1st

The MLBTV.com link is not free The game has started.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cws On this page is a link to all players. ChiSox 1. Paul Konerko $17 2. Mark Buehrle $17 3. Aaron Rowand $16 4. Scott Podsednik $15 (Surprising) 5. Shingo Takatsu $14 6. Freddy Garcia $13 7. A.J. Pierzynski $9 8. Frank Thomas $9 (4.5 months) 9. Jermaine Dye $9 10. Jose Contreras $7 Marte $4, Garland $3 Hernandez $2, Vizcaino $2, Herm $2 Rotation: $42 Twins 1. Santana $33 2. Nathan $26 3. Hunter $19 4. Radke $15 5. Ford $14 6. Morneau $14 7. Stewart $13 8. Mauer $9 9. Rincon $8 10. Cuddyer $7 Silva $2, Lohse $2, Romero $2, Crain $2 J Mays $1 Rotation: $53

It's the same reason why the ChiSox haven't given up on him: power from both sides of the plate. Very rare in the MLs.

Hey the ChiSox vs Royals are on MLBTV.com today! 2:05P E start time. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...d=20050316#grid

They are desperate are they not? I can understand them knowing next to nothing about the ChiSox but surely by now they've read that CC is not going to pitch the opener. Reminds me of Cub fans. I bet there are still those that think the opening series will be Wood, Prior, & Maddux :headshake

Low Trade value: Adkins, Diaz Some Trade value: Burke, Borchard, Harris What Ozzie thinks of Adkins doesn't boost his value. His trade value is a combination of his numbers & his potential. Trade high, buy low. It be foolish to trade them. High Trade value: Koney, Rowand, Garcia, Mark, Shingo, Marte Some Trade value: Pods, Uribe, Dye, Everett, Garland, Contreras, Vizc, Herm Low trade value: Crede, Davis, Igs, Politte To get a higher value in return it will cost a High & Some. To get rid of a low you need to pkg it with a high or a some. If Thomas is productive by mid-June, Koney is the most likely to go. That's predicated on Gload's numbers to take over the spot, the likelihood of Koney being with the Sox in 06, AZ need for Koney at 1B, & the ChiSox desire ot add Vazquez. If you're looking at most likely to be traded it's close between Garland & Contreras. Just about every trade scenario for a player with high trade value includes 1 of them. I'm going to give the nod to Contreras simply because he has much greater upside as a power pitcher.

I'll be glad to fill in the pcs for you Koney + Contreras/Garland to AZ for Vazquez. Basis: This was the highly rumored trade in the off-season & AZ did not upgrade at 1B. KW pulled that trade off the table. Not AZ. Money-wise it makes sense for both teams. I expect Contreras to have better numbers than Garland by mid Jun so I think it's more likely Contreras. If you asked KW whether he would want to upgrade the staff by swapping Contreras for Vazquez at the expense of Koney if Thomas is productive by then I think he says yes. If Contreras is really pitching well we might even get some $ to offset Vazquez salary. So that gives us Buerhle, Garcia, Vazquez, El Duque, BMC for the rotation. Potential to be the best in the majors. Period. Locked up for 06 & most are locked up for 07. Next we have our hole at 3B. Crede represents nothing more than a patch to hold the fold until Fields is ready. The Sox could do well to upgrade that Patch with Mike Lowell of the FLM. He's owed a little more than 8M/yr for 3 more yrs. I expect the Marlin's to throw in some cash to drive that cost down to 21M for 2.4 yrs for the ChiSox. In return they get Crede & Garland. For a team that lost 20M last year Garland is a good investment. His potential in the NL has always been much higher than the AL. Crede still has sizeable upside. Hopefully both are playing well enough to bolster this trade. The better their playing the more cash FL has to throw in. Obviously you can't pull the Lowell trade unless El Duque still looks to be in good health. You're not going to take that risk. But the Lowell trade is one that can wait until the trade deadline. That gives the Sox about 5 BMC starts in the bigs as well to decide whether to do it. The additions of Vazquez, BMC, Gload, & Lowell as 1st stringers will help much more than Contreras, Garland, Koney, & Crede.

Are you aware of surpnova.org, & lokitorrents.com? Both were shutdown & ressurected as pay sites. Why? Because they decided to see what their sites were with on the open market & in doing opened themselves to a major suit by the MPAA & other intellectual copyright holders. You hear a lot about this stuff & as long as your site remains non-profit & private (to some degree) for the most part you are allowed to exist & no one really pays attention to the IP (intellectual property) laws you violate. But as soon as you try to seek a value to your content the hammer comes down hard. The moral of the story is that out of a sense of loyalty, honor & respect to the fine men & women who run Soxtalk for us all you should adhere to IP laws. It's ok to post the link, make reference to the link, & paraphrase the link but don't reproduce the link in it's entirety. You never know when Jason might decide to see what Soxtalk is worth. I'd hate to be amongst those who ruin it for him.

I just want to add that Frank & JR have always shared a special relationship. That is best defined by the contracts. If I'm not mistaken every Frank contract has been between JR & Frank directly & not by the GM like almost all other contracts. The last deal was clearly Frank & JR. The Giambi siging promotes good vibes between Tellum & the ChiSox. That's always better than bad ones. If you think this little stuff doesn't matter guess again. I recently read an article on perks meaning more than the cash. Did you know that Beltran was willing to sign a multi-year deal with KC before he became a FA? The bone of contention: a machine with a cost under 1M to own & operate that would fire balls at Beltran at speeds close to 150MPH. Why did Johnson accept a trade to the NYY's? Because they were able to guarantee him his seats at both D'Backs & Suns games when he retires. Something that was structured in the earlier deal when Coangelo operated both. It can be said that DH is the most important bat in the lineup for the AL. Just look at the production the BoSox got from the position in their WS run. You have to have a guy that can produce consistently from that position month after month to be a Series contender. This again is where the Twins have had good luck in the production they've gotten from that spot. Let's not forget all the comments that were said by players in the off-season. Frank's presence in the lineup can not be measured by numbers. Though I don't really believe it & I can probably prove it can be the point is that he makes everyone else in the lineup better when he's in there. They see better pitches, they see which pitches Frank is laying off of, & they face pitchers with greater stress on them. All intangible things that increase the odds of a hit for the rest in the lineup. All that being said the Sox having greater bargaining strength this time around. In the past 4 yrs, Thomas has played in about 300G w 1400AB. In comparison Ortiz has played in about 500G w 1750AB. That means lower base & higher incentives for Thomas. Let's not forget that Thomas went from making 10M/yr to a base of 6M/yr coming off an injuried year. I can easily see the next contract being structured at a base of 6M again but with greater & more attainable incentives (games played, top 10 in avg, top 10 in rbi, top 10 in OPS, mvp, silver slugger, etc.). And like the last I can see player & team options each yr to continuance of the contract. A new Koney contract is not going to provide the Sox that kind of flexibility because he is a younger player. What Koney would provide the Sox is a waiver on no-trade. Whether it's in his contract or not I don't ever see Koney preventing the Sox from trading him. In terms of risk, upside & costs Thomas is the better buy.

You need to think about this logically. The Sox have injury-prone El Duque who has averaged < than 130 IP the past 3 yrs in their rotation. That's a substantial risk. You won't to get as much out of El Duque first before you consider changing the rotation. I agree that if El Duque is still feeling & going strong in June & BMac is getting in done at Charlotte then Jon & Jose are expendable. But that's still a big IF & you need to wait it out.

Excuse me? Why don't you look through the start of the thread & take a look at the posters who started that crap? I could either ignore them or respond unkindly. I choose the later because past history as proven that ignoring them does no good. When any of the trouble makers bother to back up something they have to say with a basis rooted in facts I might have a change of opinion of them. Likewise I realize it's a subtle difference to some but it's a major difference to others. My unkind references are general in nature. They don't offend someone directly. You have to feel the association to the reference to feel the offense. That's a big difference in context. Likewise nearly all of my statements in this forum have a factual basis to support them. I don't fantasize that a guy is better than he really is because I like him as a player better than someone else. I let the numbers that best equate to Sox wins decide which players I like the most. Therefore when someone refers to my post as illogical & like a coward doesn't bother to include any factual basis to their post I consider such person ignorant. Obnoxious fits as well. Historically it's been the same thing year after year: Thomas fans vs Koney fans. Res ipsa loquitur - facts speak for themselves. We should probably remove all Latin phrases for our law codes since they are deeply rooted in the Catholicism of the Roman Empire. (A little SLP barb for those present )

For the record I was in favor of trading for Vazquez at the expense of Koney in the off-season. I felt Garland + Koney for Vazquez was a reasonable price with the $ coming from the NYY for Vazquez. It was just plain stupid to trade CLee over Koney. Look at the difference in their OBP both at home & on the road over the years. Koney is not a moneyball player. Since the D'Backs never upgraded 1B I believe that option is still out there. Jun will feature some major home stands that will greatly boost Koney's value for teams that need his bat. The D'Backs are clearly one of those teams & considering the price they paid for Green & Glaus 45M/5yr is probably what they'd agree upon with Koney. Locking Vazquez up for 3 yrs would solidify the rotation to make a major WS run. The schedule tips the scales to the Cell in the first 3 months. That should boost Koney's stock & keep Garland's & Contreras about the same. The boost in Koney's stock should allow KW to use the lessor of the two (Jon, or Jose) to complete the trade.

Did you bother to even read the thread? I said near the break. BMAC still has something to prove in AAA & the Sox need for Garland/Contreras to at least improve their trade value. Mid June is a better target. The thread was predicated on BMAC's dominance in ST in terms of throwing strikes & not giving up runs in HR haven AZ parks. Both are very rare things to happen. I don't recall any member of the Sox or the Cub in recent yrs doing what BMAC is doing in ST. Now if you want to ignore that (ignorance seems to fit some of you quite well) that's your option to do so. But I on the otherhand look at such a rare thing & start thinking maybe this is our time. Maybe the White Sox have finally caught some good luck & are looking at the makings of a bonified ace. You don't make an ace, they make themselves. Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Maddux & yes Marky B all proved they had ace potential in their first year. Prior proved it as well. He's at best right now an ace in the making in the mold of Pedro. Don't expect 30+ starts from him any year. So I don't buy into the philosophy that you have to wait around with aces in the making. If BMAC is getting it done in Charlotte by mid June he should be added to the rotation. The Twins were in a similar situation with Santana. He deserved to be in the rotation but they held him back. If not for injuries to starters they might have lost it that year in doing so. They also might have lost Santana in that process. Luck shined on them. It seems to be shinning on the ChiSox. You have to take advantage of it. As for Koney I've crunched the numbers for you on many occasions. He's a great player at the Cell (900OPS) & an above average at best player on the road (780OPS). That's not worth 45M/5yr (what he's expected to sign for elsewhere). Better to get Vazquez for him now then a pick later. I'm assuming if the ChiSox don't sign him that they will offer him arbitration & at least get a comp pick when he leaves. That's what makes the most sense. Thomas on the hand when healthy has proven to be a 1000OPS player at the Cell & a 900OPS player on the road. The choice is obvious.

Immunity means the person can not be charged with a specific crime that is clearly identified prior to the deposition. In this case, the use of illegal steriods. However; the person can still be charged for perjury or other crimes that might arise. For example, Canseco might recieve immunity from use of illegal steriods but he could be charged for wreckless endangerment & speeding as cited in his book. That would depend on the statute of limitations in that state. It just stinks but there's not a lot that can be done about it. Tucson would have been a nice option. As I understand all the players involved in the BALCO investigation are exempt from this inquiry because anything they would say could jeapordize the case pending against BALCO. It could be used to disqualify jurors & make it very difficult to prosecute the case. So the good guys get screwed, the bad guys play on, & the questionable guys have the most to lose. American justice at it's best.

The problem with the book is like most liberal publications it only presents a single minded viewpoint of the author's analysis. For those who want a multi-facted viewpoint I suggest you check out the National Geographic channel special on this. The bottomline is that there is not one shred of proof that substantiates the claims by the author. The biggest sign of this in the special is when the so-called heirs of Christ state that unequivocally in the special. I'm open-minded to some parts of the book but not the general premise. That has nothing to do with my being religious but rather my extensive studies of Da Vinci himself. He was not a subtle person & would not have encrypted such meaning in his paintings to carry forth the author's premise. We are talking about a person who generated pages & pages of notes detailing every aspect of what he was thinking about from the helicopter to man's anatomy. Da Vinci spared nothing when it came to attention to detail in things arising from his thoughts. So even if you accept the general premise that Mary Mag is seated in the Last Supper & that the Mona Lisa represents the duality of personhood between Mary Mag & Jesus you are reaching far & wide in accepting that Da Vinci would never have created notes on the topics. If you study the man the more likely conclusion is that if he was born wealthy he likely would have done neither painting. He did them both for $ & because he was a gifted artist his expression elevated rather mundane settings to new heights. Think about it. There is nothing spectacular happening in the Last Supper or Mona Lisa. Let Da Vinci's expressionism makes both of them spectacular. Da Vinci did produce writings on religion & in none of them does he ever express the premise of the author. Not only does he not even elude to such a premise but his regards for women in his own life would hardly classify him as being anything more than a chauvinist. It simply makes no sense to tie Da Vinci to that premise.

You need to think about this logically. The Sox have injury-prone El Duque who has averaged < than 130 IP the past 3 yrs in their rotation. That's a substantial risk. You won't to get as much out of El Duque first before you consider changing the rotation. I agree that if El Duque is still feeling & going strong in June & BMac is getting in done at Charlotte then Jon & Jose are expendable. But that's still a big IF & you need to wait it out.