witesoxfan

I got Kendall down for $10 mill in 05, $11 mill in 06, and $13 mill in 07 Jason Kendall C PIT Signed Nov 2000 - 6 years/$60M 2002: $6.0M (+$4.0M signing bonus, half deferred without interest) 2003: $8.0M 2004: $8.0M 2005: $10.0M 2006: $11.0M 2007: $13.0M Link It hasn't been updated in a while, but still has contracts of players who signed contracts prior to 2002 or 2003.

Uribe would undoubtedly replace Crede at 3B with Harris probably moving to 2B full time if Crede is bad again, and Crede would then probably be moved.

I should add one *minor* thing... Tim Hudson HAS to, no ifs, ands, or buts about it, absolutely, positively, 100% HAS to sign an extension with the White Sox. If he doesn't, this deal is a no go. I'm not going to give up Lee and Konerko for 1 year of Hudson and a few years of Byrnes...I will give up Lee and Konerko for multiple years of Hudson(read: we have him until 2007 or 08 atleast) and Byrnes

They are adjusted to the park and how strong offensively the league is and how strong pitching wise the league is that year, etc. If a park is very much a hitters park, and the offensive game is very up for the year while the pitching is poor, and a pitcher puts up an ERA of 3.50 pitching his home games in that park, he's having a very good year. On the contrary, if the above conditions are still true, and a hitter puts up splits of .270 15 60 .750, his year is not nearly as good. As an example...Carl Yastrezmski's OPS in 1968(the Year of the Pitcher as it has been referred to) was .922. His Adjusted OPS for that year was 171. On the contrary, Manny Ramirez had an OPS of 1.014 last year(2003), yet his OPS+ was 160. The reason being it was much easier to put up a good OPS in 2003 then it was 1968.

Kind of figured that. I will just say this...while I'm not a fan of Crede by any means, I do not feel the stat is valid. Half a year should not qualify. That being said...I wasn't counting on him having an OPS of much more then .700 next year anyways.

I was trying to figure out what that meant. Does that mean he's reached his lowest point? Does it mean he's going to get worse every year from here on out? Or does it mean we are looking at an improvement in the near future? And Peter...just so you know, this will be Crede's 3rd full year...I am not sure how you can count a half a season of work, but I guess. Not defending Crede, just wondering if Peter's point is legit. Also...KW got noted...in a bad way. Kearns move to 3B turning into a Ken Williams like disaster, or something to that extent. Ouch.

Complete offseason plan...I'll try. From what I can tell about players who I see being on the roster as of right now or are in the crosshairs for being on the team, we are at roughly $67 mill as of about right now(I have Garcia, Buehrle, Contreras, and Garland down for a combined $22 mill, Shingo, Marte, Politte, Cotts, and Adkins down for a combined total of $7 mill, Davis and Burke down for a total of $3 mill, Gload, Thomas, and Konerko down for a total of $18 mill, Uribe, Harris, and Crede down for $2 mill, Lee, Rowand, Everett, Escobar(who I think will be on the roster next year), and Perez down for $15.5(the .5 being Escobar)...add that up and you get about $67.5 mill. As for my moves...I sign Omar Vizquel to a 2-year $8 mill deal with a $5 mill option for the 3rd year or a $.5 mill buyout. Payroll = $70.5 mill. Then I make this trade I have proposed(and while it may be overpaying, to play along, I'll keep the same proposal...not saying it couldn't be changed at a later date or that we couldn't get more for them...that's just my max offer for Hudson and Byrnes...if they want anymore then that, they can shove it). After that move is made, I figure our payroll is around $65.5, so we have around $6-10 mill more to fool around with. I'll then sign Percival to a 2-year, $10 mill deal($4 mill in 05, $5 mill in 06, plus a $7 mill option for 07 or a $1 mill buyout). The payroll is now $69.5 mill, and I figure I have between $2-6 mill left. I then either a - trade Crede as part of a package for either a reliever or a decent prospect and then sign Koskie to a 2-year, $12 mill deal($5 in 05, $6 in 06, $8 opt or $1 mill buyout). We then sign a guy like Greg Colbrunn or Dave Hansen who can play a little 1B too, because with Everett starting, our backup 1Bman is in the everyday lineup, and we really can't have that. I could also see a guy like Ryan Hankins being called up in this instance, and having him play a little C and 1B for us too, with Burke doing the same. OR b - trade for Jose Guillen(maybe a Spidale or Munoz type for him), and he becomes my RFer, and I can now choose who between Byrnes and Rowand who plays LF and who plays CF. I'll put the stronger throwing Rowand in CF, though Byrnes could easily play their too...that's all a matter of choice. I'm sure there's a creative way I could do both, but I'll spare the trouble. Those are in the order I'd do them too. Choice A weakens the Twins, strengthens the Sox, and makes the Sox lineup more dangerous from 1-9. Choice B is basically a backup plan...if Koskie reinks with Minny or if he goes elsewhere and gets a longterm deal, we need to do something to create more depth to the offense, because while the lineup I proposed above is good enough, there is no one on the bench who really could come in and do any damage whatsoever(unless Escobar captures lightning in a bottle). And, while this last part won't happen because KW and the Sox Those are all the moves I make. My roster is then, for the most part, set. Rotation of... Hudson Buehrle Garcia Contreras Garland Shingo, Marte, Percival, Politte, Cotts, Adkins, and a 12th pitcher out of the pen(whoever wins it in ST...just basically a mopup guy) Byrnes - CF Vizquel - SS Thomas - DH Koskie - 3B Rowand - RF Everett - LF Uribe - 2B Gload - 1B Davis - C That's plan A...notice that we have a guy that will could put up a .280 20 75 .800 season in the #8 slot...I love the strength from 1-9 this lineup provides. Byrnes - LF Vizquel - SS Thomas - DH Guillen - RF Rowand - CF Gload - 1B Uribe - 2B Crede - 3B Davis - C with Everett coming off the bench and playing 1B and all 3 OF spots for about 80-90 games. Everett has to be able to play 1B for this lineup to work out. If not, you can just simply dump his ass elsewhere. Bench is then Burke - C/1B/3B/OF Harris - 2B/LF/CF Colbrunn/Hankins/Hansen/someone - 1B(and maybe C and OF too) Escobar - OF That's plan A again...if we go by plan B, there is no need for the 1B and maybe C and OF type on the team, because we already have that player in Everett, and he can play all 3 OF positions too. As far as I can tell, the payroll for this team would be in the neighborhood of around $73-75 mill total(Plan A is roughly $75 mill while Plan B is $73...when you add up just the salaries of the players, you get $71 and $69 respectfully, but I forgot to add the $4 mill that is given to Oakland in the major trade...dumb me ). Not sure how many games this team would win...but I figure either would fair pretty well. Plan B is a lot riskier then Plan A is, simply due to the fact that you are having a lot of guys on the team who you are depending on to get it done but they have not gotten it done in their careers up to this point. Plan B also has a lot more potential to become the more dangerous offense, due to the depth it provides if Crede were to bust out and have a good year and Ben Davis was finally able to put together a real good year and hit in the .260-.270 range with 10-15 homers and a .750 OPS, along with having Everett on the bench. Plan A I prefer because it is more assured of being a good up and down the lineup, but it does not provide much depth at all, and the bench is fairly weak(though that is something easily fixed at the trade deadline or via the waiver wire...there are guys like that all the time). The real clincher is the pitching staff. With just 2 signings, I feel that the pitching staff goes from being very mediocre to being very good. The bullpen would still have the potential to be a little suspect at times, but it would be much better then Koch, Shingo, Marte, Politte, Adkins, Cotts, and Jackson that we went into last year with. And I figure Cotts and Adkins have to improve just due to the experience they picked up last year. They might not be great pitchers, but I think they'll do well in the roles they have, and that's all that really matters. Anyways, I'd say that pretty much sums it up. That's what I'd try to do at the very least...not sure how possible it is, but that'd be what I'd attempt to do.

Since this was supposed to be a rebuilding type year anyways for you guys, you gotta be happy with a 2-1 start. Same with the Bulls, even though they are 0-2. That's a tough 0-2...they've played pretty damn good in those 2 games. Luol Deng is a monster.

Even giving the $10 mil total($4 mill in 05, $2 mill in 06, $4 mill in 07), we're still up $5 mill for this year. That's one of the reasons. The lineup would be good enough to win games...it's a fudamentally sound lineup and everyone has pop, and is still easily upgradeable. And you can't tell me that there is no threat after Everett and Thomas. Rowand, Byrnes, Crede, and Uribe all had 20+ homers last year, Byrnes and Uribe both had OPS's of around .800, and Rowand was around .900. And Gload did hit like .300 7 40 .800 in limited playing time...he's pretty solid too. Saying that no one is a threat after Everett and Thomas is assinine. The most important thing though is probably that the offense is easily upgradeable...we go into the year with something that's easy to upgrade as opposed to something that is pretty goddamn tough to upgrade. Jose Guillen has done things to piss people off...who cares? The Angels won 92 games with him in their lineup, and he's been atleast part of the reason that he's been on a team that has gone to the playoffs two straight years. The bullpen is broken...we had one of the worst in the league last year, and that was part of the reason we were a .500 team. That's the reason we'd be interested in Percival. We want to strengthen the pen a lot. Regardless of whether Shingo or Percy or even Marte was closing, that's a moot point. The main idea is to strengthen the bullpen.

Juan hit .283 23 74 .833 this year...and you're not confident in him? Yet you are confident in Paul Konerko, who hit .239 on the road? Paul Konerko's splits... Home: .317 29 70 1.079 Road: .239 12 47 .708 If only we played all 162 games at USCF, then we'd be in buisness! :headshake

He had a great season, but I don't see how this season was any different than his 2002 or 2001 season. Yeah, he had more homers...and he had way fewer doubles.

I've defended every aspect of the trade I proposed down to the core, and some people still don't understand the trade fully. It is actually, PK, CLee, 2-3 prospects, and $10 mill for Hudson and Byrnes...if you read down a bit farther, you see that. And it saves us $5 mill...and that $5 mill does not go towards signing Omar Vizquel. It goes towards trading for Jose Guillen or signing Troy Percival(or both). So, essentially, it is trading PK, CLee, 2-3 prospects, and $10 mill for Hudson, Byrnes, and Guillen/Percival. I don't see how that doesn't help the team a ton. And it gives us a top 3 rotation in the majors. That helps a little too.

Bobcats won their first game, beating Orlando 111-100. And people thought they were gonna have a hard time getting to double digit wins. They're on pace to be a .500 team! /sarcasm

Agreed 100%. Everett staying or going is something I could care less about. He will be good for us next year, but if he's traded, I won't shed a tear. His $4 mill off the books would open up a lot more doors to other players being brought in.

Consider that he's not the best defensive player on his own TEAM(Doug Mientkiewicz is probably one of the best defensive players in the majors), and then consider that the Sawks were probably one of the worst fielding teams in the majors, and I think my point is clearer. If you want me to give you a full list, I will. Guy406 did hit a bunch of them though.

I agree 100%. There are ways that could be addressed. I think after I have thought about this a little more that the main reason I'd do a similar trade to this is because offense is easier to acquire at the trade deadline then pitching is. I think we can all agree on that.

I don't think the offense would be as good as I want it to be...but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as you think it would be. And while you can't assume everyone will have as good of years next year, you have to assume they will be good enough for us, and that if they aren't, you go out and acquire smaller pieces to help improve the team. As a quick comparison...I'll put up a Twins VS Sox lineup Stewart => Byrnes Ford > Vizquel Hunter Morneau > Everett Koskie Jones => Gload Guzman Cuddyer > Crede Blanco > or or = And it should be noted that Mauer will be back behind the plate next year for Minnesota, making them stronger then us. Also...to say that our 3,4,5 would not be solid is wrong. It would not be among the league's best, but Thomas, Everett, and Rowand could hold it's own. This team was terrible against LHP last year after Maggs and Frank went down. If anything, we need a lineup that can hit both LHP and RHP...we do not need more LH hitting. I don't see how you can say that Byrnes, Rowand, Uribe, and Crede are not proven power...they all hit 20+ homers last year, isn't that proven enough? And they did it in the majors, that's all I care about. I do not care that it was the first time for all of them, they all did it, and that's all that matters. You can't get much more proven then doing it. According to you, you want guys that have done it for years and years, but then we may end up having the black hole at the end of our rotation again. I'd rather have a bonafide ace and have to worry about fixing an offense come the trade deadline then worry about getting a starter, because getting pitching at the deadline is ugly. If the offense struggles, there is almost always a quick fix, easy, and fairly cheap solution out there for that somewhere. There is no such thing as a quick fix, easy, fairly cheap solution for SPing. You either have to catch lightning in a bottle, or you have to give up a ton. To make moves like this you have to take risks. All Gload has ever done at any stop in his career is hit. He hits the hell out of the ball, and always has. Now's as good a time as any to see if he is for real...if he is, we have a 1Bman for a couple years, and if not, we can go out and pick up a cheapie somewhere and hope he gives us .260 20 65 .800. Keeping one of them is something that could be done. All I did was go out on a limb and propose something bold. What's wrong with that? There are positives to trading both of them, with one positive being that we come out very good financially. Clearing $5 mill total or so(Lee + Konerko is $16.5 mill, Hudson and Byrnes is about $7.5 mill, so that equals $9, plus the $4 we'd pay this year = $5) helps make room for someone we initially would have no room for...perhaps Jose Guillen from Anaheim, perhaps someone via FA...who knows. There are a lot more things you can do in today's game with $5 mill then there was a couple years ago. I just think that people are perhaps overvaluing Lee and Konerko, or are undervaluing Hudson(or maybe a little of both)...I've said that before. Hudson-Buehrle-Garcia-Contreras-Garland is probably the best rotation in the majors, or is, at the very least, a top 3 rotation, and would make us one of the favorites to win it all if we were to make it to the playoffs. Ishmookie...I've said that if Hudson for Konerko would work out, that we should do it in a second, and not even worry about this entire mess, because Beane is being stupid. Konerko for Hudson will not happen. That's not saying that Hudson coming to Chicago couldn't happen though...I think that's what this thread is saying.

And you get one of the best 3 starters in the league. You can't leave that out. Offense is not everything, and it is quite apparent that KW is thinking the exact same thing.

Byrnes and Rowand both hit 20 or more homers last year and posted .800 or .900 OPS's, and I think given full playing time next year, both could hit in the area of 25-30 homers and could post .850-.900 OPS's. Juan Uribe hit 20 homers or so and had an OPS of .800. Joe Crede hit like 24 homers or something close to that, and Gload could hit 15-20 homers too. Everett and Thomas are not the only power in the lineup. Not by a long shot.

Because he's not a rising star. He's been a star, had an off year, and had a good bounce back year.

Because Mantle, Mays, and Bonds are among the greatest players to ever play the game and those are guys you can build your entire team around. What you are doing is basically comparing Paul Konerko to Mantle, Mays, and Bonds. Do you really want to do that?

Get real. I think I might actually compare that lineup to the Twins. All their lineup's done is win them 3 straight division championships.

Guy406 beat me to it Maggs money is being spent on mainly on Garcia and Contreras, and partly on a few player's raises.

I saw that. I bet he will feel really cool when he finds out that all he had to do was wait like a week and he could buy 5 copies and then a cheap case of beer for what he paid for one. God, what a dumbass