witesoxfan

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 06:42 PM) My argument against that, and it might be a silly one, but in 2012 the Bears had the same 2 safeties they did this year and they finished with a top 5 D. I'm not saying they don't need an upgrade, they do, but I don't think getting "superstars" there will fix the D more than adding "superstars" to the DL will. If Michael Bennett and Jarius Byrd both hit the market I'd want Bennett. If Melton isn't resigned and the Bears are looking at HaHa or Nix/Tuit/Hageman I'd take one of the lineman....Safeties are usually the "last line of defense", I think the Bears need to fix the "first line of defense" first. Improved DL helps every level of the defense. Safety? Not so much. So you would take a good yet unspectacular pass rushing defensive end over the best safety in the game. Smart.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 12:25 AM) A lot of Xbox users are going to save some money. 2K baseball was just horrendous. I tried it one time. I plan on buying a PS4 probably around the time Fallout 4 comes out, but frankly the only reason I bought that was to save money on NBA 2k12. That game is still money too.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 12:12 AM) Ugh! Just what we need. More former players turned into managers. jeez, what did Lyle Mouton ever do to you?

QUOTE (rowand's rowdies @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 08:59 PM) Maybe there's a way to creatively trade Kepp back to his old team the Rays where he flourished... Kepp (and $4.25 million, half his salary, flexible utility player who has thrived in Tampa) Viciedo (New DH Platoon w Joyce, occasional LF appearance) De Aza (New CF) Linstrom (New 8th inning/potential closer) Quintana (New SP, LH, less pressure as a #4/5 guy) Trace Thompson (Top 10 Prospect) Scott Snodgrass (Top 10 Prospect) To Tampa for David Price (We sign him to a big extension) Desmond Jennings (Move him to LF, Jennings/Eaton/Garcia OF) A lot of players involved and I don't think Tampa would part w Price and Jennings for this, but I'd love to have Price and Jennings on the South Side. Thoughts? Could we put a package together for Price? Would he do well in the cell? My gut tells me no, but man can he pitch when he's healthy and rested. #Karkovice2015 So the Sox are trading a bunch of retreads and bad players for one of the best starting pitchers and a good young outfielder. Yes, I like this move you made. I am just wondering why it was not made in the Video Game Catch-All. Honestly, the only guys they'd be interested in at all are Viciedo, Quintana, Thompson, and Snodgress, and the interest in those last two for Price would be minimal/throw-ins. Probably the same for Viciedo. They are going to want, primarily, nothing but prospects.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 08:17 AM) Yes, Gurnick is an idiot, but there are five others who didn't vote for Frank, and Frank getting fewer votes than Biggio and Morris is obscene. That upset me even more than Gurnick. Honestly, I don't care about Frank in this instance. I'm about 99.9% sure he's getting in. I care about Maddux. He and Pedro Martinez are absolutely the two greatest pitchers I ever saw, and I didn't even see much of Maddux in his prime. If you are only going to vote for one guy and cite "HE WAS AN ACE" as your reasoning, then GTFO and quit voting. This is like a person voting in the November election and only voting for Referendum 8, which allows the citizens to decide whether or not to bulldoze a 400 sq ft section to build a jungle gym for the community, but then again, it's not, because that person has the right to vote no matter what and their votes on the other issues don't matter at all, so, in fact, that person is better than Jerry Gurnick. Jerry Gurnick is a bitter POS who needs to have his right to vote removed by the BBWAA. I guess I'm not done. If he does not, and he submits a blank ballot next year (he would technically have to), then I fully endorse sending him a brown lunch bag filled with s***, because that's exactly what he would be submitting for his Hall vote next year.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 04:59 PM) Real shocker here/sarcasm. 28 other teams will probably meet with him too. I honestly doubt he will even meet with 10 teams. I think he wants to play in a major market, so why sign with a team like Cleveland? QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 06:08 PM) Needless to say... Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 14m While it has been reported White Sox are meeting with Tanaka this week, they wouldn't be considered major players there at this point Expand This does not surprise me. QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:16 PM) Sox will meet with Tanaka just to personally tell him his NPB stats aren't impressive because the league over there sucks balls. My sources tell me there's "zero chance" they let Tanaka or his agent use their Keurig & if anyone wants coffee they're going to have to go downstairs to the break room and get it like everyone else. Please cite Tanaka's ground ball percentage in Japan. If you have nothing, than I will mention that his K/9 over the last 3 years has been 8.7, his BB/9 has been 1.15, and a HR/9 of 0.26. If you can provide that ground ball percentage and something other than your tinfoil hat theory of "THE NPB SUCKS I SAID SO," I will be much more willing to subscribe to your newsletter. In the meantime, get off this schtick. No one's buying it except you.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 8, 2014 -> 06:51 AM) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-ml...p;vkey=news_mlb This made me very, very sad. I typically do not believe in harrassing or making personal attacks against people - in person or online - but I think I can make an exception on this one. Gurnick is an absolute f***ing douche tool.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) Not surprising news, just confirms that Hahn and the organization are doing their due diligence and exploring all possible moves to make this team better. Honestly, I think this is it. What else are they going to do in January? If there's trade legwork to be done, you can have a lesser person do it. Have Hahn and a couple of ambassadors there to take him out to lunch and/or dinner, show him around USCF, ask him what he's looking for in America, discuss some figures, sell the White Sox experience, and hope to go from there. It probably has a 1% (or less) chance of working, but you may as well see what you've got.

Honestly, it's probably fair value - both sides might/could/would make it under normal conditions, with the Padres possibly even throwing including a throw-in - but at the same time, the Padres may want to try and build the value of Grandal given that he's coming off a suspension, and the Sox really aren't in a position to be trading guys like Erik Johnson. All things considered, I think the risk for both sides is too high. The odds that Johnson flames out or Grandal was a PED'd up freak are too great to make a move like this. EDIT: Also, the odds that Johnson becomes a low 3 ERA stud or Grandal turning into a monster on offense will deter both sides from making the deal as well.

HEY GUYS GUESS HOW MANY TIMES THE BILLS MADE THE PLAYOFFS DURING THAT STRETCH

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) Yeah me too. I just want more production at the C position that's all. I know this organization can do much better than Flowers or Phegley. Hopefully we can upgrade this position without dealing Q. Perhaps another 3 way deal of sorts? I'm sure Hahn is exploring every avenue at this point. At least we can all hope so. ::Sigh:: On to the next discussion. Honestly, I think it's just a time when you have to wait. You can't always get every upgrade you need at that particularly moment. If they can figure something out with lesser or younger prospects, you can make the move, but the Astros have no real need to move him for Snodgress and Rienzo and the Sox shouldn't have any desire to move Quintana, Semien, M. Johnson, or any of the others that it would take to acquire him. It's just a matter of the teams' needs and wants not matching at the moment. I honestly doubt they trade him at this point and it could easily be a situation they revisit next offseason.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) First off thanks for cussing.. So classy. Secondly, I mentioned that he was a solid defender. Apparently you missed that part when you went out of your way to defend Ron Karkovice. Lol. I am not discounting defense but we are talking improving the offense for this 99 loss team. Agree to disagree but Karkovice was not good offensively. Since you think measuring a players offensive ability is "laughable" by looking at his batting average, then fine let's look at his awesome OBP of .289 and his laughable 18 RBIs per season average. Let me ask you a question. Are you a member of the Karkovice family? Despite his random streaks of mediocrity, the dude was not good with the stick. I never said he was good offensively. You are barking up the wrong tree. I said he was acceptable offensively. There is a a difference as large as the River Styx between the two of them. RBIs is also a poor way to judge players too, BTW. Use OBP, use SLG, use BB%, K%, whatever. RBIs show absolutely nothing about how good a player is offensively. Batting average can be an incredibly misguided and misinterpreted statistic, and so often it is not representative of the player's true skill level and value offensively. Of course you need to give something, but when you may already have that something on your roster, why would you give up a 25 year old stud starter? Your pitching staff is also shot if you deal Quintana, because, as I said, you are starting Rienzo and Surkamp. Arroyo is looking for, at minimum, $12 million a year and he could certainly put up an ERA north of 5 as he's an absolutely terrible fit for USCF. On top of that, is 36 years old. You really want to replace a 25 year old starter with a 36 year old starter? Why? They may as well have given AJ Pierzynski a 3 year deal given those circumstances. Thankfully, they aren't going to bring in Arroyo because of the circumstances above. In that situation, you'd be better off with Rienzo and Surkamp. There is not going to be a "slight" decrease in production. You are replacing a very good, young starting pitcher who is getting better with a mediocre to bad starting pitcher who you hope will get better. Beyond that, I'm simply not sold on Castro's developments yet. I'm sure it will be fine, but they just had Jose Altuve go from .290/.340/.399 to .283/.316/.363. What is stopping Castro from seeing a huge drop in batting average and OBP? His walk rate was good, but his K rate was rather mediocre to bad last year. He could easily go from .276/.350/.485 back down to say .250/.325/.425. Then he's a solid catcher. And, if he gets unlucky on balls in play (or if his BABIP's talent level is closer to .310 than the .351 he put up last year), he could be down to .230/.300/.400 with some bad luck. At the end of the day, Quintana's done it for 2 years, Castro for 1. The Sox have more fish to fry (though not necessarily bigger), so putting all their eggs in this basket is not responsible at this point in time, especially when they have other alternatives at said position and that they will be rather uncompetitive without a great deal of luck. The value Castro adds this year is maybe taking the team from 78 wins to 80 wins, or maybe not, but he doesn't win you a division, so there's no need to invest valuable resources into something like that at this point in time. Maybe next year. I'm done with this discussion.

It was 5 degrees on my walk in to work today. 5 degrees has never felt so great.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Ron Karkovice had a career batting average of .221. Yes that is comparable to the Flowers and Phegleys. If you think comparing these two players to Karkovice is an insult, how on Earth do you think they will improve in year two?? Yikes. Karkovice may have been a great battery mate and solid defender, but his bat was brutal- just like Flowers and Phegley The Sox can always address the FA market for an additional SP if they choose to trade Q. There are options still at this point in the offseason. Batting average means so f'ing little that the fact that you are using just that to compare them makes it laughable. No, he was not good with the bat, but for the better part of his career, he was perfectly acceptable. He hit for a great deal of power in the middle part of his career and had a respectable walk rate of 7.9%. Beyond that, you are, for whatever reason, ignoring the fact that Karkovice was a fantastic defender. Why? That has just as much to do with a player's game than anything. Flowers and Phegley were not good in this department. Just using basic, raw statistics alone, Karkovice threw out 53.8% of base runners in 1993, and his career CS% percentage was 41.2%. That is an absolutely insane number. For comparison's sake, Yadier Molina is considered to have the best catcher's arm in the game, and he's at 44.5% for his career, showing how similar Karkovice is in that department alone. His defensive runs above replacement was 109.3, and that's not taking into context pitch framing or balls blocked out of his zone. Underselling what Kark did behind the plate is a big time mistake. Beyond that, both Flowers and Phegley were great hitters in the minors. I have given up on Flowers being anything more than a back up player, but Phegley was especially good last year in AAA. Finally fully healthy, he put up monstrous numbers. Everything about his game and the numbers looked good. He struggled over his first 60 or so games in the majors, which is not new or mind blowing or out of the norm. Catchers struggle at that level for the first time all the time, and very, very few actually come out of the gate like gang busters. There are projections out there right now with him being a fairly average catcher next year, and I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. I also don't know what part of "they aren't going to add a starting pitcher" you didn't understand, but they aren't going to add one of those free agent starting pitchers. It's a terrible investment to bring in a starting pitcher for $14-18 million a year over 3-5 years (which is what it will take) when those pitchers are going to be exiting their prime years and getting worse while the team is not in a state where they are ready yet to be competitive AND you may very easily have to give up a 1st round pick to bring in said pitcher. This is the same reason you don't go out and sign Curtis Granderson. It's simply irresponsible financially. If you want, here you go: http://espn.go.com/mlb/freeagents/_/type/a...ble/position/sp Who are you going to legitimately bring in that will be able to nearly replace Quintana's numbers that won't cost $15 million a year?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 08:29 AM) Hahn stated early on in the off season that he would likely deal from the team's strength to acquire better offensive position players. As of today, our catchers are pretty bad. For those who think Nieto will come in and save the day, your wrong. The way I see it, both Flowers and Phegley can be compared to Karkovice. They are serviceable backups but they have no business starting on an MLB team on most days. Jason Castro is one of the most up and coming talented catchers in the game, not to mention a left handed hitter with some pop. Why wouldn't we go after him? I understand your point about losing our young arms in Reed and Santiago but you do have to give in order to get and this team STILL needs offensive help at the C position. Trading Q will not set back the growing farm. Will it set back our rotation? Maybe. Not unless they sign a free agent pitcher and we see Johnny Danks return to form. This move can also open up a spot for guys like Reinzo, Paulino and Johnson. One thing I am confident about in the white sox organization, is they do know how to develop young pitching. -No one has said Nieto is going to save the day, literally no one. I don't think people are expecting anything more than a .200/.250/.275 season. He's going to be an incredibly raw player, he just so happens to be talented. -Ron Karkovice was an incredibly valuable catcher for a number of years, even as a starting player. He was a phenomenal defender. Comparing Flowers and Phegley to him is actually an insult at this point. -The Sox pitching depth is vastly overstated. If you deal Quintana, you likely open the season with both Rienzo and Surkamp in the rotation. That's not a good situation to be in. Beyond that, Castro's first year as a starting player is incredibly comparable to both that of Phegley and Flowers. Catchers have historically taken the longest of any player on the field to develop hitting skills because so much of their game involves working with the pitching staff. -Unless Johnson completely falls flat on his face, I see no way he isn't in the rotation out of Spring Training. -They aren't going to be signing another free agent starting pitcher. We discuss it on here, but it can easily result in a John Danks or Edwin Jackson situation where they suddenly become ineffective and you are left with an albatross. With the way the Sox develop pitching, you won't see that. -That last point aside, you don't just trade pitching because you can develop it. It wasn't that long ago that the Sox had to use a junk balling Freddy Garcia because they couldn't develop pitching. Frankly, there are certain things I like about Rienzo, Surkamp, Snodgress, and Beck, among others, but I can absolutely see all of them coming up short of what is required. They are in a spot right now where they have about 4 guys you trust in the rotation and another 4 to fill the final spot (and other spot starts throughout the year). You really don't want any less than that.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 12:18 AM) No, I wouldn't. I'm just telling you they certainly have the pieces to get a trade done, they just don't have the flexibility and depth to live with that kind of trade. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 07:40 AM) That's an incredibly succinct, well stated summary of how I feel about this concept. Well done. I agree 100%. If Castro is traded this year, then it sucks, but you live with it and move on to someone else. If other teams and GMs are anything like me, they want to see Castro do it again this year before considering a move. The Astros asking price seems rather high at this point and it's a risky move to make if Castro's true talent level is actually that of a 2-3 WAR player because you are paying for a 4-5 WAR player. Beyond that, I doubt the Astros mind keeping Castro for an additional year due to the fact that Max Stassi, who they would be making room for in dealing Castro, has exactly 79 games played above the A+ level. He needs a lot more seasoning, no matter how impressive a prospect he is. I like Castro, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel that this is the right time to make the move.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 03:34 PM) And if pitchers from the minors step up this year...we could be in a much better position to continue trading pitching next offseason than we are right now. We might also have a better idea of whether we have extra moveable guys in the infield. There may not be a need for a catcher either. I don't have much faith in Flowers as anything more than a backup, but I could certainly see Phegley or Nieto establishing themselves as acceptable starting caliber players.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 03:15 PM) Sounds like it. And any similar players will be too. McCann at $85M and Salty at $21M look like lost opportunities. Which puts us at targeting a less-proven prospect, probably, or an older guy like Jaso, if he recovers. Looking ahead to the 2015 FA's, and their age that year: Ryan Doumit (34) Nick Hundley (31) - $5MM club option Gerald Laird (35) Russell Martin (32) Jeff Mathis (32) - $1.5MM club option Wil Nieves (36) A.J. Pierzynski (38) David Ross (38) Geovany Soto (32) Kurt Suzuki (31) Who floats your boat? From that list, I like the idea of Martin on a 2-3 year deal. But we're talking about Castro now, so it's quite likely that there will be other names that become available too.

If the initial list does not include the ESPN votes, Frank's at 139 for 150 (92.667%). If Renck's isn't included, it's up to 140 out of 151 (92.7%). If the second, overall percentage of remaining votes needed is 68.75%, 286 of 416. He's getting in.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) You're not going to get any sympathy on a board comprised of mostly Bears fans. I don't think he's looking for sympathy, merely stating that the Packers were more banged up than the 49ers.

QUOTE (HeGone33 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) Who are those guys? If a guy comes down with a 3 week injury in week 15, and the team isn't headed to the playoffs, is that classified as serious then since it is season ending? If a guy misses the first 10 weeks of a season and comes back, is that not serious because it wasn't season ending? You are really splitting hairs here. Crabtree's injury was serious, but the Niners were fortunate that he only missed the 10 weeks. Frankly, just look at the injured lists and who was out. The Packers were and have been without Finley, Matthews, Heyward, Jolly, and Bulaga, while the Niners were without Manningham and Culliver. Those are your significant players. I'd say the Packers have been hit harder.

QUOTE (HeGone33 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 11:47 AM) I don't think you are knocking that, but I'm not sure you're argument makes sense. How can you say not having Crabtree isn't serious? Or Manningham? Vernon Davis? Or having your best rushing linebacker out 5 games? Ian Williams (starting NT) out for the season. Starting CB Chris Culliver for the season. I think you losing Rodgers is huge obviously, and bigger than any loss we had so maybe thats why you classify the Packers loss as more significant. But bottom line is they both teams with the exception of Matthews and Rodgers & Wright had everyone going yesterday (obviously Matthews being the bigger loss). Injuries are a good excuse for the 8-7-1 record, but not for yesterday's loss. Those guys came back and played. The Packers lost a lot of guys to season ending injuries - hence, serious injuries.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 11:24 AM) and if Alshon makes that catch or if Conte wasn't a turnstile, Bears win...good teams make plays when it counts. GB isn't as good as SF, the Pack are 0-3 against the 49ers, doesn't matter where they play. Of course, and I don't disagree. It was still an incredibly close game that the Packers almost won.

QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) The Packers still went one and done That was a very close game in which a lot of people basically gave them no shot. They're a dropped INT away from winning that game (because dude was taking it to the house if he comes up with that).

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) Well, the biggest reason is that he may be traded somewhere else instead. Then you acquire someone else. Wieters could certainly be available too, plus you can probably trade for Saltalamacchia too. There are going to be other players available next offseason if necessary.