witesoxfan

Not sure why the Rangers would give up that much when they just announced today that they are going to try their absolute hardest to resign Cliff Lee and that they are going to bring a very legitimate offer to the table. Considering they amount of cash flow coming into the organization right now, it's not unfathomable to believe that they will be able to resign him.

What was wrong with the White Sox trading for Ken Griffey? I'm not sure the Sox win the division without him, even though he was very average during his stint here.

I really don't think Escobar will be long for the organization. Perhaps they like him enough that they'd have no problem using him in a utility role, but Williams pretty much only operates in a 3 year window, and Ramirez is still going to be with the White Sox in 3 years.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 11:39 PM) I would think it is stressful, but the fact LaRussa only needs a couple weeks to think about it every offseason (and Leyland too) to decide to come back proves it's a pretty nice way to early zillions. I realize Leyland was out of the game a while, but he's in no hurry to quit anymore, even though someday he's going to probably regret all those cigarettes he smoked because of the stress of managing. I can see smoking during ones 20s when people party a lot and go to the bars a lot, or smoking just on the occasions you are partying in your 20s, but anybody over the age of 30 who smokes is really pretty stupid unless they have a deathwish. Sorry about getting sidetracked, but I started thinking about the pressures of managing.... ...and had a cigarette?

suck it Yankees

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 06:56 PM) Lol@Torres sucks. He might've been the best value player in baseball this year. A 6 WAR for a guy that made less than half a million dollars. That was a ridiculous and ignorant comment. Torres is one of the biggest reasons that team is in the playoffs. Beyond that, one might think the Giants have learned a thing or two about giving out big deals to free agents, considering they made the playoffs with Zito off the roster and Rowand on the bench, but maybe not, considering Sabean is still their GM.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 04:04 PM) Its the "Yankees will take him later" model. Yeah, bargain is an overstatement, you are probably right. But I think he's certainly living up to price value. I would agree. The 3 years he's been with the Sox since resigning, he's put up two very good seasons and a solid 3rd season. He looks like he may be wearing down a bit probably because he has 2300+ MLB innings on his arm, both regular season and postseason, and I think he'll probably be better next year too.

7th in FIP at 3.34...the 6 ahead of him were Lee, Liriano, Verlander, Felix, Weaver, and Lester. The 3 behind him were Price, Floyd, and Sabathia 9th in xFIP - the 8 ahead of him were Liriano, Lee, Hernandez, Lester, Weaver, Verlander, Shields, and Romero. The 3 behind him were Sabathia, Floyd, and Scherzer. If you put him on the White Sox with an infield defense of from 3B-1B of Morel, Ramirez, Beckham, and Konerko, and I think his ERA is 3.50-3.75. The Royals had a -0.8 UZR at 1B, -5.6 at 2B, -9.5 at SS, and -15.1 at 3B. The White Sox had a -13.9 UZR at 1B, -2.3 at 2B, 12.2 at SS, and -18.4 at 3B. The only two huge differences I see are at 1B (where UZR's legitimacy has been debated) and SS, where the difference between the two teams is 21.8. Knowing the reputation of how bad Betancourt is defensively, and how good Ramirez looked this year, I would say that there were quite a few groundballs that Betancourt did not get to that Ramirez would have, and that alone decreases his WHIP and BAA and will directly and indirectly save runs by preventing hits with runners on base and preventing base runners in general. The Royals entire OF defense put up a -12.1 UZR, while the White Sox OF defense put up a -6.9 UZR. That's gonna save runs too. If Greinke does get traded this winter, I hope whatever team trades for him has a good defense, because he's an absolute monster.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) Anybody in the system? Lol. That's not very bold. But would u trade Beckham? And no more alcohol for u if u say yes. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 01:13 PM) If the Sox needed another starting pitcher, you bet your sweet ass I would (trade Beckham). The Royals defense was absolutely dreadful last year and was a huge reason Greinke put up mediocre numbers. Beckham looks to be a pretty damn good player, but what exactly is his ceiling? Is he a .310/.400/.525/.925 type of player? Or is he a .290/.360/.490 type of player? Or is he a .270/.350/.450 kind of player? We know Beckham is good, but I don't know how good he is, and 2B can be pretty readily found on the free agent market. If the Sox needed someone to play 2B right now, they could easily go after Orlando Hudson, Mark Ellis, or Omar Infante (or Juan Uribe!) and they would be adequate. There are also other candidates all around the majors, like Howie Kendrick, Chone Figgins, Jose Lopez, Jed Lowrie, Marco Scutaro...a 2B could be brought in from outside the organization. I don't know how many of those players are available nor how much they would cost, but I imagine you could get some at a relatively decent price. I still believe Zach Grienke is still a top 5-10 pitcher in the AL and have no reason to think otherwise. The Sox, as good of a rotation as they may have, don't really have an ace, shutdown type pitcher. Greinke could absolutely be that guy. So, if the Sox decide they want to trade two starting pitchers this year and then include Beckham in a package for Greinke, you bet your ass I'd be on board with that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 01:38 PM) Really? Greinke's K/9 in 09 was 9.5, his career number is 7.6, and he was back to 7.4 last year. His career BB/9 is 2.3, and it was 2.0 in 09 and 2.3 in 2010. He gave up a lot more fly balls in 2010 than in 2009, so he wound up giving up a lot more hits. But if his defense was failing to field balls put in play, his BABIP should have shot up, and instead it was .309 in 2008, .307 in 2009, and .309 in 2010. The main difference between Greinke's 2010 season and his 2009 season from a pitching independent scenario is that 60 or so of his strikeouts in 2010 (guaranteed outs) were turned into ground balls in 2010 (generally easy outs or singles). Seriously 2009 - 242 K 239 GB 242 FB 116 LD 2010 - 181 K 303 GB 239 FB 117 LD He also saw his HR/9 rise, though it's still below league average (from his freakish 4.5 HR/FB in 2009 to a more realistic 7.5 HR/FB). The biggest outlier in his entire season was his LOB%. For his career, it's 72.5%, and from 2005-2009 it never dipped below 75.2%. In 2010, it was 65.3%. That indicates pretty poor luck on batted balls too. I'd say Greinke is still an elite pitcher and he suffered quite a bit of bad luck last year, and I'd trade anybody in the system for Zach Greinke.

If they liked him, you still think they'd atleast attend the sessions. Having a scout there to watch him throw costs pennies to a multi-multi-million dollar company.

He's not turning into Ryan Freel, is he?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 01:18 PM) That makes sense. His great glove probably makes many of us overlook his range, which apparently is terrible. I've always viewed 1st base as a position that doesn't require great range...as compared to 2nd or SS for sure. I wouldn't turn down Dunn at 1st base, but I would imagine his defense overall is much worse than Konerko's. It really doesn't need great range. You will almost certainly get more defensive value out of a 1B who can throw and catch well rather than range to his left or his right. Konerko does exactly that. He's a fine defensive 1B.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 12:04 PM) Bears release Charles Grant after signing him two weeks ago. He was also inactive for both games. Is there a more idiotic organization that ours? Maybe the Raiders. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 08:57 AM) Which in itself is valuable, wouldn't you say? I think its strange, people are saying he's so overpaid at $14M/year. I think they are looking at his 2010, and where he fit into the Sox rotation (as a more or less 3/4 guy), and think he's not worth it. To me, he's still a bargain at that price, unless you think he's going to head downhill from here. Looking at his career numbers, he's pretty consistently a 3.75-4.00 ERA pitcher who gives you 200+ IP every year, and defends his position well. On most AL team's, looking at his typical numbers, he's a 2/3 guy, and could be better in the NL. That's worth a lot, given his durability. I wouldn't say he's a bargain, that's taking it to the other extreme. The big problem with baseball contracts, though not Buehrle's, is that they are generally back loaded when in reality, most players play well during the first years of the contract (when they are cheap) and they inevitably turn to mediocrity a few years into the contract, when they get expensive. I think it's a flawed line of thinking, but teams are willing to do is so they can get their most bang for the buck this year and basically pay off their credit card bill 3 years down the line.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 12:47 PM) If you were trading for Greinke, which price would you expect to pay...the price for the 2009, best pitcher in baseball guy, or the price for the above average but no where near dominant every year but 2009 guy? If I were the Royals, I'd be asking for the kind of deal the Mariners got for Cliff Lee...a huge, top level prospect guy, which is the value of a recent cy young winner...but Greinke has only been that guy for 1 year, and he wasn't that guy in 2010. Would you give up Beckham, for example, for a guy with a 4.72 ERA in the 2nd half of 2010? If the Sox needed another starting pitcher, you bet your sweet ass I would. The Royals defense was absolutely dreadful last year and was a huge reason Greinke put up mediocre numbers.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 02:35 AM) Is his range really that bad? QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Oct 19, 2010 -> 07:13 AM) I had the same question. I hear that a lot...that Konerko has terrible range. I personally don't think his range is that bad. It might be below normal, but not terrible. Maybe his ability to make big plays (he can pick balls out of the dirt with the best of them) masks his range. Either way, I'll take him at first next year. 1B range, sorted from worst to first He might not be the worst (though he probably is), but no matter how you view it, he's bad. He's never actually been THAT bad before, so it's likely that it is an outlier (or that there are balls he would normally go after that he no longer did because of Beckham), but the best his range rate has ever been was 0.6, and he's at -29.8 for his career. That's been Konerko's MO his entire career - no range, great glove.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 01:34 PM) Way to break that one. I go to school in South Dakota, you're just lucky I didn't try and break this news story in March.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 11:44 AM) If we can afford to pay Edwin that kinda money you'd think we'd make it happen to keep Konerko. Thing is, even if Paulie drops off offensively the next 3 years, he's a human vacuum on scoops at first and doesn't have too bad of range either. No his range is pretty piss poor

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) The longer you go on, the harder it becomes to convince a player to sign a deal that options away a year of FA. Longoria signed his a month after he was called up. I don't think it becomes harder, it just becomes more expensive (so if that is what you are referencing, then yes, it does become harder).

oh yeah, and HOLY s*** JUNIOR SEAU DROVE HIS CAR OFF A CLIFF THIS MORNING He's OK atleast

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 11:36 AM) I have actually read a serious suggestion that they ditch the helmets because then guys would be afraid to hit as hard. Yep. The problem is that a few players would actually die just due to the overall physical nature of the sport, as opposed to being paralyzed or concussed (which are just different terms for being a zombie).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 18, 2010 -> 12:04 PM) Until Curt Flood, there was no reason to pay a player higher, because no one else could. The end of the reserve clause changed all of that. Anyone else think that might have been the single worst thing to happen to the game of baseball? There are now probably 10 places that know they will never win a World Series. I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that one. The Rays had one of the lowest payrolls in baseball in 2008 and made it to the World Series after being a laughingstock for 10 years, the Angels had a middle of the road payroll in 2002 and won it all after years of mediocrity, and the Marlins have won it twice. Yes, you have to spend a LITTLE bit of money, but if an owner can't afford to spend even $60-70 million on his team during a period when the team is trying to be competitive, then they shouldn't be in an ownership position in the first place.

Cody Ross homered again? Cody Ross homered again.

Tillman didn't exactly do a ton to help his case this year either. Completely flopped in the majors (again), saw a decrease in his K/9, and an increase in home runs, and this was his 2nd go around in AAA too. I'm not going to suddenly say he's not a prospect, just that it's possible. Considering that something along the lines of 60-65% of top 100 pitching prospects fail, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.