sox-r-us

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 08:09 AM) He wasn't getting at that, at all. You asked if anyone missed Olivo, and I agree with Jordan when he says Miggy would make a great backup C right now. It doesnt mean we didnt win the deal. Kenny cleaned up on that deal... Ok

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Dec 9, 2006 -> 07:52 AM) I'd love to have him as a backup. And I would love to have the WS ring thanks to Freddie And some of you guys think the White Sox management think small?

Anyone miss Miguel Olivo?

What can I say.....much love to Freddy

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 10:10 PM) The guy is a big game pitcher and a horse. Is he even 26 yet? If Petitte can get $16M for one year, Zambrano will get well over $20M. He could rival A-Rod with the goofiness of his contract. Say what you want but he could be the best pitcher in baseball bar none by the end of this season. Easy now. I will take Santana and the Toronto ace before him.

Good one - however, what would he get in arbitration if we offered it to him every year for the next 3 years? I know it is a function of how well he does, but anyone can project it?

OMFG you two are killing me here.....stop it I say stop it.

Best sign I saw at the Cell during the famous Cubs-Sox game where Carlos Lee hit the grand slam to win the game in extra innings (Flash Gordon was with Cubs then and I think David Wells started that game for us) FOULKE THE CUBS

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 08:31 AM) I have seen ARod basically lick Jeter's ass (both comments and actions while playing) everytime I watch a Yankee game while Jeter and many of the others hang him out to dry (starting when not having his back when he was getting hit or in fights with Boston). His playoff stats were good before NY and plenty of great players with a ring have had crap postseason stats. For Arod, I think it's more of bad timing of a slump, and there's gonna be some mental there, he's seeing a frickin psychiatrist, and his teammates, team owner, and every fan/media outlet in NY has called him out Yup, until the WS between the Giants and Angels, Barry Bonds had done nothing in post season play either and before last year, Big Frank had that to his credit too. But that does not mean you do not go after those players who can be the big piece to the puzzle that is winning it all as a TEAM.

QUOTE(bkmoney @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 05:55 AM) this is probably where it started going downhill "Highlights of his rookie year included an impressive 166 innings pitched, 3 complete games, a 2.77 ERA, and a no-hitter. In that game, a walk and an error led to an unearned run, and a 1-0 loss for Floyd. " ouch It can only go down from there....right?

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 07:21 AM) I think he's wearing blinders on this issue. You might as well just give it up. Yup, you can take a horse to the water. You just cannot make him drink it.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 07:50 AM) Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt, Adam Eaton, Vicente Padilla, Gil Meche, Ted Lilly, Randy Wolf, Greg Maddux, Miguel Batista, Mark Mulder, Jeff Suppan, Jeff Weaver - I'm likely forgetting a few - and that's just the free agent market. Good point. Couple more: Jason Marquis. The Japanese pitcher the Red Sox are talking with.... On the trade market - Jon Leiber.

I know every time we talk about Garcia, Buerhle, people always bring up how they are basically 1 yr rentals who will be FAs next year. In order to give an idea to everyone on who the top FA pitchers are next year, and hence what kind of market there would be for someone like Garcia or Buerhle (both of who are far younger than RJ, Schilling, Smoltz), can we pin this for reference to all while the hot stove continues for the next month or so? (And if there are some key ones missing, feel free to add of course, or remove if some get signed long term): Carlos Zambrano John Smoltz Mark Buehrle Jason Jennings Freddy Garcia Doug Davis Curt Schilling Randy Johnson Jon Lieber Jake Westbrook

QUOTE(SinkingShip06 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 06:55 AM) yeah. lets get arod instead of the pitching this team desperately needs. Why do we suddenly desperately need pitching? Just because we gave up Garcia and his 86MPH fast ball? Come on, you must be kidding man. QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 02:27 AM) -I have stated that I believe A-Rod is a great individual HOF Player. -I do not want him on the White Sox -There other players out there that I would rather put money into - and yes some of those players have not won a championship. -A-Rod is a selfish player and I think his presence is bad in a clubhouse. -I don't believe he will be happy until he is on a team like Tampa or Pittsburgh where he can be the lone Superstar and not have the pressure of the media. -There are some fantastic players who have played baseball, but you are always asked about a championship. A player like A-Rod will always be remembered, especially if he does not win a chamionship. All of my opinions on this matter have been stated and I am not posting about this topic anymore. What is the point in arguing about this any further. What I and others say has no influence on the team getting A-Rod. And Kyyle23 - you should try reading some of my posts, before you come after me. I never once said the White Sox should not obtain anyone who has not won a championship - JUST NOT A-ROD. Soxman - you can hate ARod all you want and you can wish he never becomes a WHite Sox. But your reasons for not wanting him or hating him are ALL WRONG. - He is selfish? Proven wrong given he gave up playing SS to play 3B so that Mr Ego Jeter could continue to screw his own team by playing SS, something he is not as good defensively as AROd ever would be. - He is not a winner since he has never won a WS? We have tons of players on our roster who were signed as FAs or traded for when they had never won a WS. And there are tons of those players on every roster on ever MLB team. Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, etc are just some of the great players who were once traded for or signed in FA by teams BEFORE any one of them ever won anything. - He called out Jeter? I asked you to prove it. I doubt he said anything resembling calling out his captain so prove it. - His presence is bad in the clubhouse? You are just dreaming up reasons to hate it. Without any facts/examples/evidence, you lose credibility with everything you say, however legit it may sound in the future.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 06:27 AM) You don't understand the love affair with McCarthy, yet somehow Floyd's addition makes him expendable? You do know Floyd has fared even worse than McCarthy, right? Even is Brandon (and likely an additional P prospect) were packaged to Tampa for Crawford, is it worth trading Garcia/McCarthy/Gonzalez all in one offseason for Floyd and Crawford? I wouldn't think so. I see the same risk with Floyd as I do with BMac. Now you will be correct when you point to Floyd's ERA from last year being >7, something BMac has not shown to be at, but the way I look at it is that with young players - they always bounce around and only after 1 or 2 years do they really reach an equilibrium stage from which they can be truly judged. In other words, it would not surprise me one bit to see BMac get a >7 ERA this year or for Floyd to beat out BMac or even for BMac to just rock and Floyd to totally suck. There is no real data to prove one way or the other on either pitcher, since the data on Floyd and BMac until now is statistically insignificant IMO. To prove my point - look at how much Garland bounced around before reaching an equilibirum stage now where we know we can expect Jon to have somewhere from a 4 to 4.5 ERA in the AL. On his great days (when his sinker is working), he can throw shut outs (that is his ceiling) even to a playoff team, and on his bad days, he has that one bad inning (where he gets rocked for lots of runs and eventually gets pulled).

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 05:04 AM) Explain why we would get a lot for a one year rental. Whatever team trades for Mark will get him for 30 starts, and then he is off to FA pitch for the Cards Unless they believe they can sign him. But again they will have to pay top dollar. I fixed your quote for you I am very happy with JR singling Buerhle out. If only they would have traded him even before Garcia. If you want to wear a Cards hat, then get outta here. See ya later. QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 05:07 AM) I like Jerry, but I thought the Buehrle comment was dumb if not in the context of a joke, who cares what he wears in the offseason. It's the team he grew up with. Be happy it's not a Twins hat Have you ever heard of Mulder repeatedly wearing a Sox hat? Some people have the class to understand that as a professional, when you are paid top dollar, you have to behave in a certain way. Certain priviliges are taken away from you for being a professional. Mark B does not get it. And considering how average he looked last year, I hope he is traded next even before Garland. Jon has at least been a good soldier who has taken a lot of abuse from friends and media and still come out being a solid pro. To give you a comparison, I know for a fact (from friends) that if you wore an Adidas shoe to the Nike office in Portland, OR, you would get fired right there. No questions asked.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 06:08 AM) Once Floyd's name was mentioned in the trade I hade this feeling the White Sox were suddenly more willing to trade McCarthy. I certaintly hope not, but it's just an ominous feeling I have. Why not? I do not see this love affair for McCarthy. He is unproven and has shown signs of being bombed at the Cell. I am ok if we give up McCarthy to get Crawford. Crawford is what this team needs atop it's batting order and I think Ozzie wants him badly (just a hunch) I am of the opinion that the following occured in the Winter meetings. Kenny got serious with the DRays and asked for what it would take to get Crawford or Baldelli from them. DRays said they would not take somoene like Garcia or Buerhle for Crawford since they would not be able to sign him after one year and hence, they would only take a young pitcher at the cusp of pitching in the majors like BMac. Kenny did not want to give up BMac before making sure he has some more young arms in the system. Hence he pulled off the Garcia deal. Now he will go back to the DRays and ask them who do they want out of Floyd, Gio and BMac to seal the deal, and probably pull it off soon here. Maybe something similar can occur with Baldelli as the target too, though in that case the young pitching we give up might not be as good as BMac.

An interesting blurb regarding how Astros think about the prospect everyone wants for Garland (Hirsh) ============ Right-hander Jason Jennings could be an increased target for the Cubs or other teams looking to deal for a starter. The Rockies shopped him to the Astros, but Houston wouldn't include Jason Hirsh or its second-ranked pitching prospect, Fernando Nieve, in a trade

I think that quote by the Sox Exec to Phil Rogers is very telling. The Sox might very well be targetting getting Crawford and to do that, they may give up some of the young pitching they just acquired or McCarthy.

I have compiled the quotes below but to read the articles, just use the links at bottom. Discuss. ================== "We're not trying to pretend we have all the answers, but we have a plan and hopefully that plan will turn out kind of [like it] trended before," Williams said before leaving baseball's winter meetings. "Where eventually it will be proven we're making the right moves and when we decide to make a move with those guys, we'll be idiots for acquiring them and idiots for letting them go." "We have nothing going on," Williams said before leaving with club Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf. Williams admitted the Sox were "close to about four or five things, but they didn't materialize for us for various reasons." "I've tried to explain our mission statement over and over, but I'm kind of resigned to the thought that whatever we do isn't good enough or understood," Williams said, shaking his head. "So I honestly can't worry about it too much. I have to do what I think is in the best interests of the organization." "In the case of Joe Crede, how many times did you hear get rid of Joe Crede?" Williams said. "Jon Garland. Don't bring in A.J. Pierzynski. What are you doing with Scott Podsednik? Are you nuts? Juan Uribe, he can't play shortstop. Aaron Rowand, he can't play center field. And then when I traded Aaron Rowand, it was like 'What are you doing? You traded the best center fielder in the game.' "I can't combat all of it. If you do, you're going to be squashed by the pressure of it all. I just try to make informed decisions. Our guys get around and talk about a lot of things. Like you guys do in the bar about your end of the industry." "But you know what would be more unpopular?" Williams said. "It would be if we did nothing and got old and got too expensive and then had to go out scrounging for leftover talent and overpaying for mediocre talent." "Well, I know they are both plus-arms," Williams said. "One of the things you have to deal with is that hopefully his growing pains are out of the way. They all go through it. "One thing we have to offer from an offensive standpoint is we can give a pitcher a little run support." http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines =================== "We could not continue to operate in the manner I've been operating for the last few years, which has been target, target, target, veteran player, veteran player," Williams said Thursday. "First of all, those deals aren't out there right now. You are going to run into a brick wall, sooner or later." An AL executive said the Sox had asked for Mets reliever Duaner Sanchez and top pitching prospect Philip Humber and the Yankees' Philip Hughes and Humberto Sanchez in proposals for starting pitching http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines ==================== http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines =================== "Just remember that you don't judge an off-season by what you have at the end of the winter meetings," a White Sox executive said Thursday. One long-time GM speculated the Sox could be clearing the decks to land Barry Zito or Barry Bonds, who re-signed with the Giants late Thursday. The path that might make the most sense is to use Brandon McCarthy at the top of a package to pry outfielder Carl Crawford away from Tampa Bay. If not Crawford, then Rocco Baldelli, who wouldn't be quite as costly. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...cs-home-utility

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 01:14 AM) A-Rod just like Bonds is not a winner IMO because he has not won a championship. Ok then in that case we should have never signed/traded for Freddy Garcia, Contreras, Jim Thome, Juan Uribe, AJ Pierzsinky etc since they had never won a ring before coming to us too. Your logic is warped dude. QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 01:16 AM) He called out Jeter this past season in press. Radio, Paper, ESPN all covered it. Please show me the exact quote.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:32 AM) When has Jeter called out a teammate? Jeter is the ultimate professional and he leads by example. In this big circus that is the Yankee clubhouse how many times do you hear negative news about Jeter When did ARod call out a team mate? If anything, ARod goes about just worrying about getting better and fixing the problems he sees with his play. Define "lead by example". Why do you think ARod does not lead by example. His #s are as good as Jeter except some parts of last year.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:19 AM) No one is questioning how nice of a person he is, but the fact is that he does not win. And that does not mean he will never win in the future. Look at the Cowher eg I gave you. QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:19 AM) When did I call Maggs selfish? It is an example to show you how people (not necessary you) have said stuff about people all the time and linked it to why their teams will never see success only to be proven wrong. Be careful making generalizations about people you have never met. They are wrong 99% of the time. QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) So, I'll take that as a "no." The Yankees clubhouse was a circus when Giambi and Sheffield were linked to BALCO. It was also a circus when they signed Randy Johnson. As for A-Rod, the media circus had to do with him not playing up to expectations this year, not him being a bad teammate. While I'm not really an A-Rod fan, I have yet to see an example of him being anything other than a professional. He gracefully moved over to 3B when the Yankees traded for him. If that's not being a "team player", I don't know what is. Next time, cite a concrete example when you bad-mouth a player. Excellent point. If Jeter was this great, classy guy that everyone seems to think he is, why did he not give up the SS position to the best SS in the game and move to 3B himself? Maybe all Jeter cares about is his own legacy???? Nah......Arod is the one with the ego. Yeah riiiigggghhhtttt.....

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:14 AM) Did PK hit a Grand Slam in the World Series to help the team win? I am sure A-Rod has done the same thing - right? So was Kong selfish BEFORE he hit that Grand Slam in the WS???? Wasn't Maggs selfish when he was with us? Didn;t his team just go to the WS? Wasn't Bill Cowher considered a coach who will never win anything in the playoffs? What happened last year? All these generalizations that are purely garbage should be treated as such. Just because you propogate more lies may make it the truth in your eyes but to the more discerning folks, it does not.

QUOTE(3 BeWareTheNewSox 5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:08 AM) Damn that Paul Konerko is the most selfish player I've ever seen Well done. My thoughts exactly. Amazing how this word "cancer" has become so over-used that it means nothing to me anytime I hear it now. Ridiculous.... QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 12:10 AM) Have you been watching the same A-Rod I have been watching. Please tell me why there was such a circus in the Yankee clubhouse surrounding A-Rod and do not give me "It's the Yankees" excuse. It is a reflection of the pathetic media in big cities and the society we live in. Put the blame where it needs to go....and think for your self for a change. Amazing how people as nice as ARod get beat up too. Maybe it would be better if he killed someone or beat up his wife for some of you to focus on other players. This is the same BS with TO. 95% of it is BS that the media feeds because they have nothing better to do in their lives. Same BS with the NY Giants recently