beck72

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 10:11 PM) Its better for the team if Sale starts and you use 1 of 4 legit closer candidates as your closer. Addison Reed is probably the favorite moving forward. He has VERY good stuff. Trading a guy like Santos and plugging in a guy like Reed smacks of an Atlanta Braves move. That's OK in my book. The sox haven't had the farm system to plug guys into the bigs ala the Braves though.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 6, 2011 -> 11:07 PM) The hiring of Ventura was the first tip off that this is a rebuild. Managers of Ventura's green nature are not brought in to launch a championship run this year. They are brought in to grow and to learn. If Kenny isn't moving Floyd or Danks, then this isn't a rebuild. If he's hanging onto them-at least until July-then the sox will still have a chance to compete for 2012

At first I wasn't a big fan. Santos for only a guy who made 5 starts in AA. Yet Molina had one of the better years of all pitchers in the minors. Usually KW tries to get too cute, and plumb an unknown guy who Coop can fix. For one, I'm on board with this deal. Maybe Paddy had some insights on Molina as well. If true, then KW is at least listening to other people instead of sticking with his own eyes and ears.

If you believe few teams are going to meet Kenny's asking price for Danks and/ or Floyd, then the sox aren't going to blow up the team. Signing Mark would fit in with a retool, i.e. getting value for vets the sox have ready replacements for, ala Quentin and a SP like Danks or Floyd. Trading high on Matt before his arm falls off is a cost effective move, and to get a semi decent return on him.

I think signing Mark would be the start of the meeting. 3 yrs/ $48 mill. With Peavy, Sale, Stewart, and Humber question marks, having Mark solidify the rotation makes sound baseball sense. A case be made for it making financial sense, as well, even if Danks, Thornton and Quentin are traded. Say you get eventually get 5 young players for those guys. Those guys under team control for 5 years, + Mark's $45 mill, for 3 yrs, may be a better deal than the $28 mill. or so spent on 1 yr of both Danks and Q, and 2 for Matt. With Mark taking a spot in the rotation, the sox have room for error in adding the young guys in.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) It's funny cause you literally just described Juan Pierre here. Pierre was semi close to a .300 hitter while not being cheap whatsoever. Pierre's money from the Dodgers made him a reasonable contract. The sox haven't put money/ resources into the top of the lineup for high avg. and OBP guys to hit #1 and #2 for years. They got burned with Swisher and haven't tried since to get top of the line up help or trade for bats. Even then, Swisher wasn't a fit for the top of the lineup. They've done well dealing for pitchers but not bats. And the bats haven't been coming from the minors either. Though Gordon, Morel and Viciedo could change that. Even if the sox traded some major league guys, I'd be hesitant to see what bats come their way as the scouts have been horrible.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 03:45 PM) This is one case where the Sox really have no option. Morel, Beckham, and Rios are going to at least start the year in the lineup. If none of the 3 step up, then it's highly unlikely the Sox will be competitive anyway, so you might as well play them and try to develop. I'm all for giving Morel, Gordon and Dayan time to develop. They just need help from the vets or outside help who can hit near the top of the lineup so they don't have to carry the load.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) It's certainly plausible that he could fail, for any number of reasons, but the dude has flat out earned a chance to start next year for this team. You cannot ask for a player to do more to earn a spot than to come up late in the season, play good defense, and destroy the baseball, after having done exactly that at AAA. I'd be OK if the sox gave De Aza a chance. Yet only if they got another consistent .300 hitter and who can post a high OBP for the 2nd or 3rd spots in the lineup. The sox have too many low OBP guys throughout the lineup-AJ, Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Dayan [who may hit but still won't take too many BB's].

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 03:39 PM) Who out there fits that description, hell not even Juan does anymore. Even if the #1 and 2 hitters don't have speed, the Sox need guys at the top who can hit close to .300 and get on base. Right now, only PK does that. De Aza did it in the minors at an older age.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) I've seen zero that backs this up. De Aza was a fairly highly touted player with the Marlins and earned a starting spot. He then suffered a career threatening injury, which took him several years to recover from. He plays good defense. He has some of the speed you want. He can take a walk. He hits LH. He has hit at every level he's played at, including the big leagues last year. Even if you play games with his numbers and adjust his BABIP last year down to a reasonable level, he still would be putting up decent numbers in the bigs. De Aza may turn out OK. I'm just tired of the sox thinking they can go cheap at leadoff ala Pierre, and get by without solid .300 hitters at the top, and stick with the long ball hitters. I know those are hard to come by. But the sox lack guys who can hit for avg. and get on base.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) Looking at Nishioka (they should have seen that coming), Kaz Matsui, and Iguchi, he compares favorably well. Hideki Matsui is far superior, but Aoki isn't bad, relatively speaking. That said, this is not a team that needs to spend more money on outfielders. Quite frankly, they don't NEED anymore outfielders. They need young talent wherever they can get it, but they don't need to spend the $30 million posting fee it's going to cost to get this guy and then trying to find room for him in this outfield. And, when I say "outfielders" and "this outfield," I am NOT including Carlos Quentin. But you tell me, since you suggested it...how would you fit Aoki into an outfield that currently consists of De Aza, Rios, Viciedo, and Lillibridge? Nevermind the fact that Williams will either sign someone he likes (probably a f***ing grinder) or will fall in love with someone during spring training to whom he signed to a minor league contract and that player will make the team and make the major league roster only to be demoted 4 days later never to be seen again. (that final part is not a protest that I wanted Lastings Milledge on the MLB roster...Brent Lillibridge absolutely earned his spot on that roster and was an incredibly bright spot in an otherwise boring season. It's just a matter of thinking on Williams' level, and while I have no problem with him as GM and Senior VP of whatever his actual title is, I just sort of know how he operates, and he falls in love with these guys too. Erstad was probably the last time Williams and Guillen agreed, and that was the worst Sox year of my life) It's my belief the sox need to build around a guy like Aoki-a .300 hitter, with speed, defense and OBP. They can build power and RH bats around him-which they have a lot of. Which is what the Keenyn Walker and Jared Mitchell picks seemed to be based on. Whether he's it or not, remains to be seen. And worth the cost. Not sure what the posting fee would be. De Aza is a low cost gamble. But he's likely a 4th OFer along with Brent. Rios would be in LF and Dayan in RF. This way, they could still contend with the young guys like Beckham, Morel and Dayan, and trade some pieces to also get younger talent If the sox stick with what they have, they'll simply be a .500 team. They might as well trade most everyone and blow it up. PK included. But I see a platoon of Brent and DeAza in CF, Rios in LF and Dayan in RF.

Just saw this. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,1293446.story Why not go the free agent route with a Shane Victorino type CFer? Of course they have to have the best bid. And I'm not sure what other teams would be in the market for a guy like Norichika Aoki. But having De Aza at the top of the order, along with Rios and Viciedo in the OF, doesn't bring me confidence that the sox can get any higher than 3rd place next year. Especially as the pitching is likely going to take a hit, with Mark gone and likely one of Danks/ Floyd dealt. The offense is still going to need some new blood. Even the trade route probably won't net a guy like Aoki-only a guy who might be like Aoki in 3, 4 years.

Mark has more value-on the field and in the clubhouse-for the sox than for other teams. Something should be done, along the lines of a PK contract. While he might be a nice addition for another team, his leaving would be a greater loss. The 6 man rotation has worked well for MB. Without it, his off-speed stuff and location would probably take a big hit. So would his ERA and effectiveness. This is something the sox should stick with for 2012, with Peavy and Humber needing that extra rest as well.

Jerry and Kenny can't allow Ozzie and family take away from the players. This last episode shows that it does. Maybe Teahen wanted Oney to take the bait, to do what he does best, overreact and say stuff he shouldn't. The effect is Ozzie has probably blown the trust of his key core of players, the vets, the good guys management tauts and has built the team around, like PK and Buehrle because he hasn't kept his mouth shut, and allowed his son to get into business he doesn't belong. This has to be the last straw, as Teahen was well respected by his teammates. Start fresh with a manager who has the trust of his players. If Kenny doesn't either, put Rick Hahn in there. The sox can't keep running the same management team out there--esp. Ozzie and Kenny--with little or no improvement. Changes are needed, both players and staff.

You want a marketing plan? Wait until the offseason for that. The sox are going to try to win the mediocre AL Central, based on the strength of their pitching and defense. There's nothing out there this year that can change the sox hitting problems--guys not named PK need to step up and hit their career norms. The hitting will have to wait until the offseason, when you can expect to have Quentin traded for depth, Rios exiled/ paid to go away, and Viciedo find a home in RF. It was damn naive to expect the Dunn addition, by itself, to help solve the problems of the streakiness and low OBP of Alexei, Gordon, AJ, Pierre and Rios, and make Quentin hit like he did in 2008. The offense needed help prior to 2011 that adding Dunn didn't solve, even if he had hit like he had in the past. That needs to be worked on this offseason. The Sox have been "all in" payroll wise. Just not "all in" talent wise. Esp. on the offensive side.

If the sox did add a SP via trade, maybe their old friends in KC would be a fit with Bruce Chen. Nothing great, but he'd eat innings, which is what the sox would need to keep Peavy, Humber and Mark all fresh. Chen projects as a type B FA. With him making only $2 mill, the sox could offer him ARB. Not sure what the asking price would be. KC writer says teams are calling about Francis, Chen and Davies and expect to deal. Chen got lit up vs. BOS last outing, but had done well prior to that. http://twitter.com/#!/Royals_Report/st...445061008175105 The sox still play KC 10 more games, with 3 more series vs. them. You figure Chen could get 3 starts vs. the Sox. They certainly haven't done well vs. him, only getting 2 runs in 14 innings. Those 3 games could be huge going down the stretch.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 05:35 AM) I just don't agree with this. Quentin is 1/2 of our productive offensive players right now and dealing him would severely hurt this team's chances of winning the division. Take CQ out of the lineup and Paulie will be pitched around 2-3 times per game. Even if Viciedo has recovered from his injury, expecting him to put up an .860 OPS down the stretch is wishful thinking. And I am very high on Dayan over the long run. He's just not a proven commodity at this point. Isn't Quentin still under team control in 2012? Why not just deal him in December? Sure, you'll get less in return, but you won't have to tank you playoff chances this year. I completely agree with this, and this is why I was pissed about the Jackson trade. In addition to being a very solid back-of-the-rotation guy, he was a great insurance policy. If Quentin and PK remain being the only guys hitting in the 2nd half, there's no way the Sox win the AL Central anyway. The other 7 players need to step up. They haven't as of yet. If trading Carlos could net the Sox some key players who'd be part of the team for years to come, I'd be for trading him. Mostly because Viciedo can step in now without a huge drop off production wise from Carlos. And that after 2012, Carlos likely would be gone via free agency. But I don't see the trade being made.

QUOTE (The '05 Sound @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 12:04 AM) From Mr. Cowardly: cst_Cowley cst_Cowley Disappointing to hear, but was just told that KW doesn't really believe in this team and is looking to ship more bodies out. cst_Cowley cst_Cowley Raise the White Flag, as the buzzards are circling the South Side. At least Kenny sees what we see...

I'm taking it all in good fun. Maybe the kid knows something. I doubt it.

The Braves have a 19 yr old LHP Carlos Perez in low A, SAL. He was their #5 prospect. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...=carlos-perez-7

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) However the scenario you want to put it, whether it's a guy in a year before he hits FA, or a player a team wants, I don't have a lot of faith in KWs judgement right now. His track record is not as good as it used to be. If we get something solid in return and marginally miss Q's bat for the next year and a half, then that's fine, but I think dealing Q we're heading away from the direction of competing for a division, which is the whole point. Far more people than KW are involved evaluating the potential deals for Q or more, as the sox have been scouting these teams for a while now. As far as getting away from competing for the AL Central title, the sox can't get much worse. Getting younger, solid if not top prospects, can only help add to the mix. Carlos is likely gone after 2012 anyway. If trading him can add 2, 3 stellar pieces to the long term success of the sox, it'd be worth it in IMO.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 06:18 PM) @Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal Source: Braves "hot" for Quentin - and #WhiteSox love ATL's young arms. One holdup...the condition of Viciedo's thumb at AAA. Would replace Quentin for #WhiteSox. Hasn't played since Saturday. A few weeks ago, people were talking about getting Brandon Beachy for Quentin from ATL. Now it seems like we'd get multiple pieces from their top 10.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) FWIW, here's what a Braves fan friend of mine had to say about Beachy: mediocre stuff at best, but very smart and with great control.... he usually is quite good because of that, though when he has an off day and the control isn't there he gets killed.... basically, awesome #4 Here are some of the Braves top prospects: NoteIt wasn't going to the Braves page for me. Just click on By Team and go to the Braves: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y20...ex.jsp?c_id=atl

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 06:01 PM) LOL, WHAT? Is that a joke? f***ing s***, I would be fine if Kenny through in Matt Thornton and any prospect not named Viciedo/Reed if it meant Brown, Singleton, AND Cosart. That's beyond video-game level trade. The Phils beat writer in the article at least thinks any deal for Quentin would start with Brown, and then go up from there.

QUOTE (whitesox1 @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) so im guessing this rumor was just a big tease? Nothing from the guy since last night. http://twitter.com/#!/MrFantasyExpert