beck72

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 06:19 PM) By the same token, I think you are over-rating the Sox talent. Hudson would not be the top pitching prospect for any other organization in baseball. And CQ cannot stay on the field. There's a good chance Dunn will worth more wins over these last 2 moths than CQ and Hudson combined. I said that in the short term it may be a wash re: dunn and CQ production wise. But long term, CQ or Hudson would be worth more wins as Dunn is DHing somewhere. Put Hudson in any system and he is a top SP prospect after not only performing but excelling in every level of the minors. After his solid AAA year, Hudson has only increased his value from 2009. You may, and others around here, compare Hudson's ceiling with other system stalwarts like Poreda, Clayton, McCarthy, Rauch, etc. after the sox have had few arms make it in the bigs. He may suck like the rest. Yet Hudson should be looked at by his own merits, strengths and weaknesses. He seems to be above those others, with his control, movement on his pitches, his fit in the ballpark, his aggressiveness, demeanor, durability, etc. He doesn't have overpowering stuff and needs to rely on his control, location and movement. If he gets behind in the count, he'll get hurt.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 02:31 PM) Of course he used a small sample size since Carlos is seemingly injured half the time. I agree that the Sox should not count on Carlos to carry the team due to his injury history. After his 2008 breakout year, most people thought that 2009 the sox offense would center on Carlos and an improved Alexei. An injured Carlos showed that the sox offense can't rely on one or two guys to carry it. Kenny started this offseason to build that team that was able to not rely on the HR as much and its still being built. Trading Carlos would set that process back. In the short term, at best it may be a wash. In the long term, it would definitely be a huge setback for the Sox. Carlos has far, far more value than a two month rental like dunn. That's even counting on draft picks [ if the sox offered him arb. which they prob. won't want to pay $13, 14 mill. for a DH] It would hurt the Sox the next few years. They are built to win now around Peavy, Mark, Danks and Gavin and those picks may turn into something decent 3, 4 yrs down the road.

QUOTE (Wedge @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 01:15 PM) Adam Dunn, June-July 2009 13 HR, 36 RBI, .282 AVG, .384 OBP, .922 OPS. Carlos Quentin, June-July 2009 14 HR, 40 RBI, .275 AVG, .389 OBP, 1.014 OPS. Well put, sir!

With Tor. asking for Joba Chamberlain from the yanks and Casey Kelly from Boston for two months of Scott Downs [and soundly rejected], http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/aski...cott-downs.html what would the Yanks say to Bobby Jenks for Joba? The Yanks don't have a reliable set up man to get the game to Mariano and may think Jenks could be a key addition. Joba's 5.95 ERA is ugly, and the Yanks don't take kindly to failure. Jenks in set up would be an upgrade for them, and would be worth more than Downs as he's under team control in 2011. It would take salary off the sox hands as well. Trading Jenks for Joba would favor the Yanks the rest of this year. Yet it would probably be a wash for the Sox in 2010, with Putz and Thornton picking up the closer spot and be a big pick up in 2011 and beyond. Even if it's not to the Yanks for Joba, trading bobby now would be a great way to get out from his contract because they likely won't be able to move him in the off season. Teams need bullpen help now and there aren't many options for closing/ set up.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 12:17 PM) Right now, CQ isn't worth a whole lot. His effectiveness as a hitter goes hand in hand with his health, and I really don't have any faith in him being able to stay healthy. And to say CQ now is worth more than 2 months of Dunn and 2 draft picks is laughable. Yeah, after 08, but not now. FWIW, Kenny doesn't agree with you, as by all accounts Wash. started it's 1st proposals asking for Beckham or Carlos for Dunn and that ship has sailed. Just as the Nats supposedly asked for Garza from TB. Those proposals for Dunn are laughable. Mike Rizzo must be smoking crack with Marion Berry out east. Few GM's around the league are going to be taking him seriously if he actually believes Dunn's worth what he's been asking for. People are acting like Adam Dunn is Albert Pujols or something. He's not. Dunn would be a nice addition but not at the price of Hudson even. The sox need depth as Freddy is still a question mark considering he has thrown a lot of innings this year. Hudson should be a keeper, even as they look to add another SP.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 05:55 AM) Whoa, slow down there killer. I'd hardly put Morel in the same category as Young or Roberts. At best, we'd probably be looking at a Joe Randa type, but probably more like Joe Crede. Morel looks like a solid player and all and that he might develop into a decent major leaguer, but we'd definitely be selling high on him and I think that would be the smartest thing to do if we were set on such on a trade. Flowers and Danks' trade values are at all time lows and both offer more potential in the future than Morel. I like Morel, but if I had to choose between the three on who to trade, it's an easy choice for me. With that being said, I'd like to see if the Nats still want CQ bad. If we could get Dunn for CQ and a lesser prospect than the ones mentioned, I'd do that, only because I have lost all faith in CQ being able to stay healthy. Hopefully your exaggerating. A Carlos for Dunn swap would get KW fired. Jerry would rightfully step in and slap KW silly to wake him up out of his stupor. Even if CQ deals with injuries on a yearly basis, he's worth far more than two months of Dunn

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 03:31 AM) I wouldn't even blink over trading Hudson and one of Danks or Morel for Dunn. That's a damn good deal for us. That's a damn good deal for the Nats. Highway robbery in fact. Kenny would rue the day he did that deal.

QUOTE (longshot7 @ Jul 28, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) Totally disagree. I get the feeling the Sox are higher on Hudson than many around here are. That's a good thing. Dealing Hudson for Dunn the reluctant DH would come back and haunt the sox. I'm all for adding a guy like Westbrook for the stretch run, but keeping Hudson as well. The sox need depth at SP as there aren't any arms more than 2 years away outside of Hudson.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 09:19 PM) I assume you guys are fine with Carlos Torres being our SP for the remainder of the season? I'm not. No way should the sox trade Hudson for 2 months of Dunn + picks.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 05:03 PM) Jake Westbrook kinda sucks, but he might outperform Freddy and Hudson for the rest of the season. So it's something to consider. I'm going with Westbrook as well. The sox play Det. and the twins 23 more times this year. That could mean 4-5 starts vs. them. Westbrook might be a better option this year than Hudson. Of course, I'd hold onto Hudson. Just the sox prob. need another vet for the rest of 2010.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 07:27 PM) Would you take Figgins as a straight up waiver claim right now? No because in the offseason, you could expect the M's to eat some of the contract. The M's would pull a Jays move and let the sox eat the entire contract now

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 06:57 PM) One thing this team doesn't really need for 2011-2012 is 3B's. Between Teahen, Viciedo and Morel, there really isn't much reason to go get another one, unless they were really good and clearly better than any of those three could be. If they acquire Figgins, it would be to play elsewhere. What Omar has shown, is 3b is a key defensive position for the Sox. Morel may be able to provide that. Teahen and Dayan can't. I'd expect one or two of these guys to be traded this off-season, or Dayan moved to 1b full-time. Figgins would provide above avg. defense at 3b, and be a guy who can hit near the top of the order. Pierre has been adequate at best. The sox don't have many options for leadoff. Figgins should come at a big discount.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 03:46 PM) Does anyone else think Kenny makes/doesn't make a move based on moves made/lack of by Tigers/Twins ? I do think the sox might add players based on the sox playing these two teams 23 more times this season. That's why adding a vet who's familiar with these two teams, like Jake Westbrook, might make sense.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 12:48 AM) How about Mark Teahen/Dan Hudson/Jordan Danks for Chone Figgins/Russel Branyan 3b figgins 2b beckham cf rios 1b konerko rf quentin dh branyan ss ramirez c aj p lf pierre carlos torres called up for hudson. I could see the sox adding Figgins in the offseason ala Pierre [salary dump, add in cash to the sox] for 3b.

Of the available SP's, who makes sense? Edwin Jackson; Jake Westbrook, if the sox want to add salary.

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 04:54 AM) Looking over Law's scouting report, I think if the Sox could get 2 months of Dunn for Santos and Hudson they should do it. Law doesn't seem to think Hudson has much chance to be valuable major-leaguer and he's been spot-on in most of his assessment of the Sox minor league players. Not a chance that either of them go for Dunn--let alone both. I had my doubts about Santos in the spring. But the progress he's made as a P, you don't give up on that kind of an arm. He could be a mainstay in the sox pen [they have had few arms in the minors help in the bullpen, why get rid of one who has made it?] for as long as he's healthy. Hudson will be fine and be a solid #3 SP for a long time. You don't give up that kind of production for a two month rental.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 01:57 PM) For the long term, yes that makes the most sense for his development. For winning games...sending away Kotsay and replacing him with Teahen makes the most sense. If the sox aren't going to add a position player, sending away Dayan is the move to make. From most of the public comments, they want to keep the team intact. They know there are weak links that could be replaced and have been lobbying to keep Kotsay--esp. Konerko and Ozzie. Ozzie publicly gushes when Kotsay hits the ball hard and goes 0-for in the post game interviews. It also tells the players that it's all on them. It worked in '05 and they may not want to mess with the "chemistry" that the players have talked about. IMO, the time to move Kotsay was back when Nix was DFA'd. Now it' almost a moot point. Kotsay could get hot for the last 2 months, like he did last year. This is just as likely as the sox making a move for a player and them hitting below expectations. If Kotsay doesn't produce, then a guy like Teahen or Jones would get more AB's.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 05:30 AM) If we lose this division or win by a game or two, it's because our manager and general manager came into the season with a glaring weakness that wasn't adressed. Someone needs to take the fall for that. I'd prefer us all to have a lot higher expectations for this team then the first round of the playoffs. We had all the pieces coming into the offseason to take this division by the throat and we didn't take it. Well then it would be Ozzie. It certainly seems KW's not falling on the sword, basically saying he wanted to add a DH in the offseason. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox27.article I don't buy anyone being fired. The three key players [Oz, KW, and Jerry] have a good enough understanding that one decision--not having a DH--isn't going to overshadow all the good moves made that have put the sox into 1st place--getting Vizquel and Jones, picking up Pierre, signing Freddy, the Rios pick up, Putz signing, sticking with Santos, etc. You can't just count the one move of not filling DH and see how that might cost a game or two this year without counting all the other positive moves that added to wins.

Sending Viciedo down when Teahen is ready makes the most sense. He can get some consistent AB's in AAA for most of Aug. and come back in Sept.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jul 27, 2010 -> 12:14 PM) Wasn't that San Diego? My bad

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Jul 26, 2010 -> 08:29 PM) Yeah, it's true. I think people are way underestimating what it would take to pull this off. The Nationals have no need to move Dunn, they'll need a big offer to do it. Hudson, Santos, and Shirek won't be enough probably. Maybe if they add Viciedo to that package something would happen, but I doubt it. If the sox wanted to get Dunn, Hudson, Santos OR Viciedo would be headliners to the trades. No way would more than one of those guys get dealt in a package. IMO, Dayan is least valuable. Yet I don't event think I'd trade Dayan in a package for Dunn.

I'm late to the discussion, and it might have been mentioned, but Arizona is well familiar with the sox minor league pitching from the Peavy trade, not to mention spring training. I'd rather the sox keep Jackson and don't move him to Wash. Then the Sox have another solid 5th SP type, if Hudson doesn't turn it around.

From the sounds of it, Teahen coming back will be the addition. He's just as likely to add something to the sox offense as a LaRoche type [i.e. a lesser guy than a Dunn/ Fielder type who most would see as an upgrade to Kotsay] He should see time in RF, and 3b to give guys days off. For what other teams are asking for impact bats like Fielder and Dunn, I'd hold pat as well. As much as I don't trust Kotsay to turn it around, he's as likely to get hot and hit better for a 2 month period than a trade could. The sox farm system is too thin to gamble with, and do long term damage to it. The sox winning the Central and doing something in the playoffs will still hinge on these keys, regardless of what they do with DH/ Kotsay: SP, and the big bats--Pk, Quentin, Beckham, Rios, AJ. If most of those guys hit and the SP does it's job, the sox should be fine. If they don't, adding even Dunn or Fielder wouldn't be much help.

Hudson's command was terrible yesterday. But the way he's thrown in as a pro he deserves the benefit of the doubt that this start was an aberration. As far as hurting his trade value, I certainly don't expect Hudson to be traded. Anyway, most teams also will give young guys a learning curve on pitching in the bigs. Which is what we should do. Few pitchers are lights out from day 1--even #1 type SP's. Hudson isn't expected to be a #1. Just a #5 for now.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/dan-har...ondbacks-072310 From the sounds of it, the Yanks may be on the verge of dealing for Haren. I haven't heard a word on the Sox being in on Haren. But they could afford him, with PK coming off the books, if Viciedo and his $2.2 mill were included, if the sox traded Jenks and re-signed Putz to a larger deal, and Mark gone after 2011. Most likely, the sox aren't involved. They need to sign Danks to a deal