beck72

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 04:14 PM) I have my own theory, that this is Ozzie trying to motivate Bobby and tell him to stop dicking around and start slinging it. I expect Bobbyback in a save situation very quickly and he'll probably end up keeping the job. Quite frankly, that would be a best possible scenario (Ozzie getting through to Bobby and us getting results). The guy has pitches, he just needs to stop f***ing around and get back to the basics of having 1 to 2 really really good pitches. That is my hope at least as a fan of the Sox because they need to get production out of there highly paid reliever who will clearly be long gone at the end of the season. That's a good point. Jenks has been throwing his "sinker" he calls it [i.e., rolling breaking ball] when his best pitches are his FB and his big curve. If he can't locate his FB, then he's in trouble.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 22, 2010 -> 02:14 PM) Wow, I didn't realize how good he was in June. The problem is that's only one month out of 4. His numbers for April, May, & July are pretty awful. June is pretty recent. He seemed to be ready to start the 2nd half, after coming back from his absence w/ 3 of 4 scoreless appearances in July. Like Ozzie said post game, Bobby didn't seem to have his stuff. If he can only throw lollipop breaking stuff and batting practice fastballs, he should be sitting just ahead of Linebrink in the depth chart. Yet if he can throw like he did in June, Bobby will come back as the closer. He'll get his chances to turn it around. If Bobby is fully healthy, I don't see why not.

I know everyone is frustrated at Jenks. But his June was about as lights out as it gets. http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=5910 He was absolutely rolling when he left the team in late June. Came back decent in July, w/ 3 of 4 scoreless to start, and had his lowest ERA of the season at the ASB. It's his last 3 of 4 games that look so horrible. Is or will Jenks be the closer of June, or of April, May and now recently? Probably somewhere in between, which is his career norms. If his stuff is good, there's hope and putting him in with someone backing him up makes sense right now. His location on both Figgins and Gutierrez hits were horrible. I'd still go with Putz or Matt for a few games. But Bobby will get his chances to turn it around.

In a perfect world, Jenks would be the sox lock down closer. He hasn't been for a while, though he went through a decent stretch before the break during the sox long winning string. Yet without 1 go to guy in the 9th, it throws off the rest of the late inning guys. Ozzie and Coop like to have the bullpen in set roles and they are set up for that his year. Putz, Santos and Matt have had the 7th and 8th innings. While it might be easy to flip flop Jenks with one of those guys, the sox have always given proven vets extra leeway to work through slumps--hitting or pitching. Jenks is in a slump and want him to work it out before they have to disrupt the entire bullpen. Putz and Thornton will get most of the chances to close, and go depending on match ups. If a few LHB's are up in the 8th Matt will come in and Putz will close. Or RH batters are up in the 8th, Putz will come in and Matt will have the 9th. I could see Santos in the mix as well. Yet Jenks also will get a few chances to turn it around--albeit on a very short leash, say one batter gets on and they have an option to come in the 9th after Bobby.

IIRC, it was Ozzie who didn't want to bring in a guy who could only DH. And Dunn would be able to do more than Thome. I understood the thinking. But no one can argue now that Kotsay should be getting the majority of AB's vs RHP, as DH or at 1b. If the Sox got Dunn, it would be for 2010. Though I could see the sox strike a deal as he'd be a fit at 1b with his LH power bat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 04:33 PM) I wouldn't call that his "Ceiling", he's got the ability to push well beyond 30 HR. I think that's a likely place for him to come in, but it's not his ceiling. He's got the power in that bat to push well beyond 40 HR, esp. if he is slightly more selective on pitches. But hypothetically, if that were his ceiling...that's the kind of player who should be an ideal centerpiece in a trade for a guy like Dunn...but for the deals we've been talking about, he wouldn't even be the best talent required to do it, Hudson would be. Gregor posted that he heard the asking price has dropped to Viciedo plus other prospects from Hudson, Beckham and Carlos as the centerpiece. It makes sense that the Nats start with the high asking price. What they'll settle for, who knows? It has to be higher than the 2 picks, at least to the Nats. With Strasburg, they may want major league ready players instead of picks.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 04:28 PM) I would have a hard time giving up Huddy in a package for done. I really like Viciedo because I think he has so much raw ability, but depending on the Sox plans I could live with it a bit more because his upside is that of a Dunn (one dimensional player, whose dimension is offense), quite frankly. Never in a million years did I think I'd be excited to get Dunn, but depending on the package I just might. If it means giving up Hudson, Flowers, and Viciedo, well forget about it. I tend to think Huddy is untouchable because we need to have a good young cheap pitcher in our rotation while we pay guys like Floyd/Buehrle/Peavy/etc. I completely agree. The sox shouldn't give up a key piece of their future and present for Dunn like Hudson. Viciedo has upside on offense. But it prob. will be hard for him to keep up the numbers he's putting up now. Dayan may put up good power numbers. But his avg.,non-existent OBP and defense leave a lot to be desired.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 04:25 PM) I think a .220 average with Viciedo is nearly impossible and I struggle to think how a scout would expect him to do so...because he's putting the ball in play so much even already in the big leagues. If he's hitting 30+ HR, he'd have to sustain a BABIP under .250 to pull off an average that low. If Viciedo's ceiling is 30 Hr's with a .250 avg, I think the sox would part with him in a trade for Dunn.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) People need to understand the trade was great, the extension was a bit rushed and looking bad now. Can this change? Yes, I still think Mark can produce. IMO it was a good trade. Teahen was doing better and had the potential to make the trade much better until he got hurt. The extension was too much and too soon for not having seen Teahen improve on his time with the Royals. Seeing how much the sox have been counting on Omar's defense at 3B, I don't see Teahen getting more time than him when he returns.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 04:10 PM) I totally disagree on this. I think a big part of the problem is that the guys the Sox have are probably undervalued on the trade market compared to where they are for the Sox. Right now, the Sox happen to have guys who fill the exact holes they anticipate having on their roster (SP, DH/1b, C) next year, which is a useful thing to have, and because their system isn't viewed well, guys like Viciedo or Hudson who would be brand name players already if they had been hitting in the Red Sox or Rangers organizations are viewed with extra skepticism. I think there's a real good chance than in a few years, DV is a 30+ HR legitimate hitter, and I think most of the Sox brass probably agrees with me. If you're dealing a guy like that, you ought to be able to get back a solid return for him. Instead, he's sort of a complimentary trade piece right now because his first year in the US he struggled with adapting and with the bats. I think the sox prospects are viewed with extra skepticism because the sox farm system hasn't produced impact players. Until guys like Beckham, Hudson, Mitchell, Viciedo perform in the bigs, every team, scout, GM, and writer in baseball should view their system with caution. The sox have done very well knowing the "ceiling" and "floors" of their minor league talent. Viciedo might produce 30+ HR's. But it might be with a .220 avg like Chris Young, but without the defense, speed and OBP.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 02:36 PM) So the Sox don't want a below average fielder in Dayan playing 3B, but they'll let Teahen play there? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. Also, Dayan started playing 1B on a regular basis this year, so let's give him a little more time there before we call him a future DH. As for the "serious holes in his swing and approach", the kid is 21 years old and already has made the big leagues. You want to write him off already? The kid has massive potential and will only get better with time. This draft pick s*** is nonsense. I don't care how much better our scouting department has been as of late, you can't tell me that they'll turn these two picks into players of equal value to Dayan and Flowers. Nothing is guaranteed in the draft and even the best picks can get side-tracked and quickly lose value. Look at our top three picks from 2009 draft if you need an example. IMO, Teahen won't be with the sox long. He was being subbed for by Vizquel for defensive purposes. The point is, the sox aren't in the position as a playoff contending team to stick with a very young guy, and give him the consistent playing time in the field and at the plate necessary for him to reach his potential. Dayan will have a lot of ups and downs, in the field and at the plate. He may fill his "potential". He may not. That is the nature of trades and the sox have done well trading away "potential" talent. Few young guys the sox have traded have even had decent careers let alone become stars. Sweeney's been the best of a sorry bunch. We'll see what his value is and what Kenny decides. IMO, Dayan's worth more to a young, non-contending team than he is to the Sox. The draft picks do have tremendous value, though. The sox can't outspend many teams and need the farm system to develop stars. Look how Boston completely rebuilt their team with picks. I'd take picks that could turn out to be Jared Mitchell and Trayce Thompson [injured players, not washouts by any means] and a bat like Adam Dunn that could help win a world series over a potential DH and a few lesser players that may not be regulars.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 01:32 PM) DV could be hitting like Buster Posey and Ozzie would still be making sure Kotsay got his at bats. Kotsay reminds me of the Nix situation. He's outlived his usefulness and he's still being trotted out there. If it's not Dunn added, another LH bat needs to replace Kotsay.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 01:01 PM) I think I'd really like to hang on to Dayan though. He's looked way more impressive than I thought he would for being just 21 and recently removed from his home country. Dayan's put up better numbers than I thought he would. Yet the fact that the sox would rather put Omar out there almost everyday over Dayan for his defense alone, and have Kotsay play even though he's not hitting his weight and could play Dayan at 1b or DH, gives a bit of a hint as to what his plans are on the Sox. People may say it's a pennant race. and the sox are going with vets. Yet 2011 should also be a pennant race. The sox can't have below avg. defenders out there, this yr. or in the future. Dayan may improve his glove. Yet that will only come with more playing time, going through struggles, making stupid mistakes. The sox aren't in the position to give him that long leash he needs. But on a young club, Dayan might do well and improve his glove. I don't think Dayan's a butcher with the glove. But he kinds of reminds me Carlos Lee with less plate discipline. The sox are getting away from the slugging Carlos Lee types, and getting defense and offense from players such as Rios, Beckham and Alexei.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 01:48 PM) I'd probably trust Dayan fielding over Dunn. Plus, Dayan has a mad ceiling for what could be a rental + picks. Flowers, Torres, Short, Morel would probably be my max offer. We'll see what Kenny does. But if the Nats are OK with Dayan as the centerpiece, I say the sox bite.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 12:20 PM) Putting my Dayan shirt thoughts on hold. Especially since I just bought a new Gordon one (it was time, couldn't find my old one). I'd really like to keep Dayan. Plus, you'd think the Nats would like Flowers more, especially if they plan on Harper in the OF. I could see both Flowers and Dayan go. The Sox will likely re-sign AJ. He's a perfect match for our pitching staff. I just don't see Dayan as a fit going forward, though. The sox don't want to have a below avg. fielder playing a key position, either 3b or 1b. The sox have options at 3b, with Teahen and Morel for 2011. 1b isn't a spot to hide Dayan either. Seeing how many E's PK has saved this year and made all the plays hit at him, a guy has to be able to be solid at 1b. I like Dayan as a DH. Dayan may be a slugger. Yet he's got serious holes in his swing and approach. Teams will learn how to make him chase balls and he will get himself out. Yet with Dunn, the sox can turn those 2 picks into some nice players. The scouting dept. has turned it around, and I have faith that those picks and Dunn's bat for this year, can be better than what Dayan, Flowers, etc could do.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 20, 2010 -> 03:29 AM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,2154462.story The only guy the Marlins could have been scouting on Sunday is Beckham. Milwaukee was prob. looking at Hudson. The only way I'd give up Hudson would be in a deal for a SP like Haren. Yet I don't know even then. Hudson is cheap and locked up for years, and Haren has a lot of innings on his arm.

Not sure if this was posted. But Scot Gregor heard that it was Dayan plus 2 prospects for Dunn. That sounds more reasonable. Dayan is the kind of player the sox want to move away from: all slugging, no OBP, little plate discipline, below avg. defense. With the sox able to net 2 picks for Dunn [they should offer him arb. as they could have him for 1b or DH if he accepts, which he prob. won't], a deal around Dayan would be nice http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4414 If the sox added Dunn, it would be at the expense of Kotsay. Kenny could rationalize the move by Kotsay having had every opportunity to hit, both playing 1b and at DH. He hasn't. The sox haven't cut the cord on Kotsay, due to his being a team leader, and have given him more chances to rebound than most contending clubs would have. It's time, esp. if the price is Dayan plus lower level guys [Torres, a bullpen arm, etc].

What the Minny series has shown is how important solid, above average defense is for the Sox. Viceido won't be playing above avg defense anytime soon. Morel, on the other hand, might be able to. If a young guy comes up, he has to be able to play major league ready defense. Long term, Dayan looks like a DH--even 1b needs very good defense, which PK has given this year, with his picks on bad throws and stopping anything that is hit at him. Teahen also isn't the answer at 3b. His defense is average at best. While no team would acquire him as he's not healthy, a deal could be struck in Aug. as he's likely to clear waivers. I would expect him to be dealt in the offseason though. Morel looks to be ready to start in the bigs next year if not see time in Sept.

Viciedo should go back down to AAA. Jones and Kotsay aren't going anywhere.

No to Lilly. He's made for the NL. I don't think he'd do much better than Hudson.

Berkman would be an ideal addition. He could still play 1b but rotate in as mostly DH. From the sounds of it, Houston will pick up cash [they'll have to, as he's owed cash this yr and a $2 mill next yr when his option's declined] if the sox add better prospects. That is exactly how Kenny operates. I don't see the sox going crazy and adding a key piece of the sox future to the trade. But I could see someone with good numbers--Carlos Torres; and a position prospect like Morel [i'd rather the sox trade Teahen but that isn't happening] or capitalize on Lillibridge's hot streak and deal him. The key is making it look like the Astros get a good value in return.

Adam LaRoche is also a 2nd half hitter the last 3 years, hitting .309/ .371/.537 http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?play...p;type=batting3 The Sox can't afford to clean out their farm system on Fielder or Dunn.

The sox should add a LH power bat like Adam Dunn or Adam LaRoche. The LH bat should be able to play 1b at least. They shouldn't trade away Hudson because I think by the end of the year he'll be needed. As great as he's been, I don't think Freddy will last all year. The big questions remaining are: how will Teahen be when he comes back? And will Pierre step it up? Pierre is more of a concern. The Sox don't have anyone else at the top of the order. Unless Beckham returns to his 2009 form. Or do you move Rios up, with Carlos heating up?

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jun 18, 2010 -> 02:28 AM) That's what the Sox do.....see Beckham, Gordon. It worked well for the sox in '09. I don't think the sox are rushing Viciedo. Even if they are a bit, he's more likely to help the sox win than Nix. And Dayan likely will only up until Teahen is back.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 18, 2010 -> 02:27 AM) I'm excited by this. Hopefully he gets a lot of the possible at bats. With his bat coming around in AAA, I too am optimistic. And Vizquel can be the late inning def. replacement for Dayan if need be.