beck72

The sox can't afford to have another defensive hole in the OF to replace Dye like Pods would be. IMO, the best bet is to go with Crisp in LF, and have Quentin take over in RF. Crisp should get a low base salary with decent incentives. He needs to prove he's healthy and can take a 1 yr hit salary wise. Crisp isn't ideal. But better than some other options out there. I haven't heard Randy Winn's name being mentioned anywhere. He was hurt last year but had hit over .300 the 2 prior years. And he plays above avg. defense in RF, and LF.

Jones has a good chance to show people he still can play baseball. With being signed early, and a legitimate shot to see some playing time at DH and in the field [he won't start, but could if someone went down], he has no reason to come into camp out of shape. Having a motivated, in shape Jones can only help the sox.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 6, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) I think that all depends though. I mean, Jenks should get $7-8M this year in arb, which means that if he's at least pretty good in 2010 then he'll be looking for at least $10M in arb going into 2011, his last arbitration year. If the Sox could deal Jenks for prospects and dump his salary, and then sign Soriano/Valverde for 2/$18 or something (the same amount or less), then that could work out a lot better. Because of how we finished, if we signed Soriano/Valverde we only give up a 2nd rounder, and we should be able to recoup that value in a Jenks deal, and possibly get a little more. At least that way we get some cost certainty, and depending on what is out there, we may even be able to improve in 2010 as well. That might sound redundant, but because of Jenks' arb situation we're basically shelling out $7-8M for him this year and hoping he's good, and then if he is, we still may have some serious reservations about tendering him a contract in 2011, meaning we could lose him for nothing. Unloading him now, getting a little something back, and then picking up another 2-year option wouldn't be a bad thing at all IMO. Teams that have to give up 2 picks for Soriano and Valverde--teams with winning records--may pass on these guys. Their asking prices may drop big time and be looking for a job in Jan. The sox could get themselves a bargain if they wait. But I still see a trade of some sort for the bullpen. The sox have some major league talent to trade [Lillibridge, Nix, Torres] that may be appealing to a team looking to drop an expensive arm. Bobby Jenks may be expensive--prob. too expensive to trade. Yet his leaving would make the bullpen an even bigger mess.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 6, 2009 -> 03:22 PM) The key point in that article though is "arbitration eligible." Jenks, Danks, Q, Pena, Carrasco, and Teahen are all due for raises in arbitration as it is. There's no reason to trade talent for a project who we may be forced to overpay before we even find out if he's going to work for us or not. We should scour the Rule-5 eligible players list for another lefty to compete with Williams (assuming we keep Jenks) and then, if we really do want another righty reliever (which I don't think we do - I think we'll go in-house) then instead of paying $1-2M+ in arb AND giving up talent off the farm, we should just try to put that money towards a veteran in FA and look for both proven success and cost certainty without giving up a prospect. Lindstrom should still be very affordable. The key is health. If his arm is in good shape, he had numbers and stuff better than Tony Pena [and would likely cost less in terms of talent than Brandon Allen]. Lindstrom supposedly can hit the high 90's, with decent other pitches to keep hitters from sitting on his FB. With the sox pen set up the way it is, a RHP who can hit the mid to upper 90's, and have a high K rate would fit in nicely. A solid dependable bullpen arm-someone who acn work the 7th, 8th innings-- isn't likely to be found in the Rule 5 draft. It may not be Lindstrom. Yet the trade route may be the only place to find one.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 3, 2009 -> 11:25 PM) Honestly with the lack of quality lefty relievers out there, we are better off holding onto Jenks and hoping he rebounds. We are going to need Thorton in that 7th and 8th inning role. With the lack of quality relievers out there period, lefty or righty, Jenks should be kept, even if he makes more than he should.

I'd like the sox to add a bullpen arm. Florida is supposed to be shopping both LHP Reynel Pinto and RHP Matt Lindstrom. Lindstrom was hurt last year [the first year he's missed games and his walk rate went up] and IIRC started the year as their closer. If he's healthy, he could be a good buy low candidate, as he threw very well in 08 and 07, as he has that mid 90's heat the sox don't have currently that they need to diversify the pen. Pinto does have control issues, so he's not really a good fit [unless the sox see something fixable in him that FLA hasn't been able solve--not likely]. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...0,7509175.story

Looking back at the Garcia for Floyd/ Gio trade thread, shows how much emotion plays into the initial reactions. Most of the strong sentiment was against. Freddy had led the sox to a World Series, and a lot of fans probably felt some attachment to hold onto a key piece of that series win. The return looked less than impressive--yet with his salary for 2007 and late season fade in 2006, it seemed fair at the time, if Garcia hadn't been injured. The sox scouting department and management team isn't and shouldn't be sentimental. A lot of fans are, though, based on familiarity. We know the players traded and are often unfamiliar with those the sox acquire. This often leads fans to overvaluing the traded players and undervaluing those the sox get in return. The sox have done a very nice job of evaluating the talent they have in system and turning those guys into serviceable players via trade. Not all the sox trades have been "wins". But the "losses" haven't really come back to really hurt the sox.

I don't blame Ozzie for trotting Linebrink out there. The sox organization didn't give him any options to work with which is on Kenny and the scouting department. If Linebrink is healthy--he wasn't in 2008--he's a decent bet to turn it around given innings. He threw very well in the 1st half. The sox can't put him on the DL and send him to AAA to "get healthy", i.e., work out the problems that keep him from being effective. Ozzie works with what he's given. And the sox aren't going to release Linebrink last year during his 2nd half struggles and eat the remaining 2 1/2 yrs and $12 mill. he had left. If the sox aren't releasing him, Ozzie needs to try and have him work out his struggles during games, like most teams do. Esp for position players. Some of the names mentioned for targeting at Sox talk like Figgins [.244 avg to start May and basically 0 for the playoffs] and Upton [a .218 avg and .608 OPS on June 1] struggled through stretches only to have their managers keep putting them out there. Position players going through slumps are a little different compared to pitchers in that they can help a team on defense if they aren't hitting. Slumping pitchers look horrible when the can't get guys out--which is the only way they can help a team. But the only way to work out those slumps is by side work and getting innings in games that count. I lay most of the blame on the sox horrible drafts. Only Hudson [7 2/3 IP],Poreda [11 IP] and Clayton Richard [16+ IP] were able to give the sox quality bullpen innings. That is ridiculous. Building a bullpen through trades, free agents and DFA's must be offset by having minor leaguers being able to come in and contribute. The sox haven't had that last option--which is also the most economical--for years. It was telling that last year, the sox only called up Nunez and Hudson Sept. 1. No one else was close to being ready. I don't know if 2010 will be any better. But with a solid starting staff of 1-5 with Hudson in the wings [though he should be in the bullpen as the sox need him there], the sox might go with minor league SP's like Torres, Hynick, Ely, or Shirek as options. Other guys like Omogrosso, Bellamy might be wild cards, who could help. This lack of production from the minor leagues contributed to the sox overpaying for Linebrink in the first place. After the disasterous 2007 bullpen, the sox had to do something drastic--which 4 years and a full NTC for Linebrink was. The sox signed him at the beginning of free agency because of their situation and had to meet his price. I do know if I was Linebrink I'd change my offseason workouts. He's faded in the last 3 yrs in the 2nd half--posting a 7.04 ERA with a BAA of .333. Yet his 1st halfs have been stellar--2.29 ERA with a BAA of .222. IIRC, Linebrink said he might pick up a ball once a week this offseason starting in Dec., now that he's healthy this offseason. He needs to get stronger. The sox should be able to count on Scott for the 1st half at least. Then, if he struggles, the sox might have had enough and be more likely to let him go as they'd only be left with 1 1/2 yrs on his deal.

I do think Epstein should and will try and acquire a SS via the trade route. Whether that's Alexei or not-who knows. They have been burned by free agent SS's and only Scutaro remains. He is likely seeking a 3 yr deal and is bound to decline sharply quickly--esp. on defense.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 27, 2009 -> 07:55 PM) Who becomes our long term SS then? If we still had Getz, then I guess you could say move Bacon to SS and hope he improves, but you end up opening a very big hole which would be super expensive. Sox actually have an advantage to have such a cheap, good option at short. There are a lot of 2b options out there currently--Hudson, Polanco, Felipe Lopez. 2b is a lot easier to fill than SS. The sox would have to be positive Gordon could handle SS fulltime.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 27, 2009 -> 05:23 AM) I was thinking more along the lines of what Marco Scutaro did last year, good contact (.282 AVG, 75 K), very good OBP, decent speed and not much in the way of power. Gordon fits most of that criteria, esp. the avg. and have an above avg. OBP.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 02:06 PM) It would be awful news, I just don't see how it can be true. KW said he wanted the team OBP to be .350. Swapping out Thome for a mix of guys like Jones, Kotsay maybe Nix isn't going to help it. I think they either sign or trade for enough guys that if they have 13 non-pitchers on the roster they have 9 regular-types, Kotsay, Vizquel, Jones, and a catcher. Who knows, maybe they will pencil Flowers in as a DH, and try to get him regular AB. The bench guys are OK if not overly exposed. It was one criticism of how Jones was handled in Texas. Chances are if Kotsay, Vizquel and Jones get 300 or more AB apiece, Soxtalk is going to need an upgrade to handle all the fire Walker stuff that will be posted. I like the talk of Blanco as back up C because it would mean having Flowers start in AAA getting regular AB's and working on his overall game.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 02:28 AM) A theme of these recent posts has been how we're headed for a deep lineup with no one bat that is scary. Look at what we had '06: Absolutely scare-your-soul hitting from three guys. But we were as bad as our weakest links, of which there were several. Now in '05.......it was actually AJ's worst hitting year for us. Dye had power but underwhelming OBP. Really eight of our offensive positions had lower than .352 OBP. However.... almost all the hitters were at least decent. So in short I think I'm going against some of the other things I've said in this thread. Lets get back to being deep and see where it takes us. Sure we all want a big signing, but in a sense we had our expenditures with Peavy and Rios........and now it's time to fill two positions where there are a bevy of options out there (so let them all bid against each other).........and fortifying the bench is a great thing to do while we're waiting. I also see this trend-improving the total overall talent on offense and defense throughout the 40 man roster but particularly the 25 man. While it would be great to add an Adrian Gonzalez to the lineup [and it still could happen] the sox need to be solid 1-25, with better talent for possible callups 26-40 as well. When the sox started the year with Anderson/ Wise and Fields as starters, and MacDougal, Corky Miller, Colon, Wilson Betemit and Lillibridge with jobs, and few options to back even those guys up, the sox had gaping holes that couldn't be filled for a long time. I do like the fact that the sox could be helped mid year by guys like Flowers, Jordan Danks, or Brent Morel. While they may not be able to pull a Beckham right away, they are versatile talents that could help the sox in other ways besides hitting.

Getting a guy like Crisp makes all the sense in the world: he's affordable, he's versatile on defense; has has speed; can help manufacture runs; and has a much higher "floor" than an Anderson or Wise. While Crisp may not have the upside of Pods on offense, he brings a lot more to the defense by giving the sox options to move players around in the OF. Crisp isn't the answer to all the sox problems, and the sox still need more help on offense. And I'd much rather have him hitting near the bottom of the order. But I could see Crisp hitting #2 behind Beckham and in front of Q. His signing wouldn't keep the sox from still upgrading the offense--esp. if a guy like Upton/ Gonzalez became available [ie their prices came down to an acceptable level]. And he wouldn't block Jordan Danks if Danks was ready to play in Chicago in 2010.

Kelvim Escobar on an incentive laden deal. Build on the Venzuelan connection with Ozzie, Freddy and Omar.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Nov 24, 2009 -> 04:59 AM) Just the fact the Sox are connected to names like Gonzalez and Upton give me pleanty of reason to hope that KW will make some sort of a big splash this winter.. I can't wait for those winter meetings! I agree. It also shows that Kenny seems willing to trade part of the future [with the sox top prospects, ie Hudson, Flowers, which which it would take to land a big bat like Upton or Adrian] in order to win now. I know he's window shopping now, asking what it woudl take to land these guys. But when it comes time to get the credit card out and purchase, he has to know the cost will be his highest prospects.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 07:12 AM) From our view point, sure, a sunk cost is a sunk cost. But at the end of the day it's not our money to play with, it's theirs. It may be bulls*** like you say, but that is how the business of baseball is generallyrun, and the sox especially. You stick with the guy making the big bucks, unless that particular team is blown away by the talent of one of their up-and-comers, or can find a suitor to dump their garbage off on. It's just not as easy as it sounds. If the average fan can realize that linebrink is not the linebrink of yesteryear... what about all the higher ups behind the scenes around the league, not to mention the general managers? The sox do not have a stud in the wings and there is essentially no chance we could ever move him via a trade, therefore, linebrink. I feel the sox do not have much faith in their arms in the minors, because realistically, it's pretty bleak in regards to major league talent. None of them should be relied on to contribute in the slightest, other than hudson, who i feel could strive in the pen. There is no reason to beat a dead horse. It's as simple they are not gonna release him, pay him the money he is owed, and then watch someone who is likely a 4A pitcher (nunez, torres, williams, etc) come up and put up an era hovering around five with bad peripherals all around. If it were as simple as not having to pay linebrink a dime once released you may have a legitimate case, until then, not so much. b****ing and moaning about the linebrink situation will not get us anywhere (the fan base)... it is what it is. It's time to move on and for kw to make the other spots in the just pen that much stronger. Well said. One thing I can say for Kenny, he hasn't made many bad contract deals that are eating teams up, with unmovable players who teams would love to get rid of. Even Tampa got into the act with the Burrell signing. Linebrink is one of the few for the sox. Another thing is the weak minor league relievers. This is where many teams should be building a majority of their pen from. Yet this has been a huge letdown in recent years. Few arms have helped at the major league level. The sox callups have done nothing. Hudson, IMO, should be in set up to start 2010. The sox minor league talent has started to to improve with better drafts. Hopefully an arm or two will be able to help later in 2010 because, like you said, only hudson seems ready. Brandon Hynick from Col. is a guy who might stick in the pen, though. He doesn't have great stuff. But he has control and has 3 decent pitches, with one being an out pitch [his split finger].

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:13 AM) Rosenthal isn't hearing anything. The article said "major league sources." There's no legitimate quote from anybody suggesting Teahen isn't set at third. So major league sources are hearing that the sox are exploring their options [most likely Infield], and Rosenthal is reporting that. It's not like Rosenthal is some hack that has no connections to baseball insiders. It's not that hard to imagine the sox asking other teams about a guy at 3b or 2b and other teams seeing Teahen as the guy being moved.

FWIW, my Dad lives in the Tampa area and said fans were really down on Upton last year. I think some was a matter of him hitting in the leadoff spot with a batting avg. near the Mendoza line--even though that should have been on Maddon. I could see TB asking for Flowers and Hudson.

IIRC, in a radio interview, I think it was with Rongey, Teahen did say he'd be more comfortable coming to the park knowing what position he'd be playing--esp. 3B, and at what spot in the order he'd be hitting. Yet somehow I'd think Teahen would be fine playing for a winning team, hitting in the Cell rather than KC where he'll get more HR's, and what position he'd be playing wouldn't be a big an issue. Either way, it's not really his call if the sox see an opportunity to improve. Kenny may even decide to call Teahen like he did Beckham before he moves him from 3b

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 06:53 PM) He's going to sign a contract worth several million dollars in incentives, in my opinion. I don't think we are interested in spending $4-6 million on another injury-risk starter at this juncture. I agree. Sheets isn't likely. He's on the high end of reclamation projects in terms of salary/ incentives. If it were a pitcher, I'd bet it would be someone who could also throw in the bullpen. That's why I was thinking Escobar. Plus, the sox did deals with Colon and Freddy kind of what Escobar would probably be expecting for 2010.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) It's true. There will be another signing announced as well, probably on Monday but I am not allowed to say who it is. Its another reclamation project. Most people will probably not be as excited about it as Vizquel but you could argue this guy has a lot more upside. And hes cheap. Coco Crisp? I also wouldn't mind Kelvim Escobar for the bullpen/ rotation. Sign him on an incentive laden deal ala Colon in 2009. The sox would then have a pipeline of Venezuelan's with Freddy, Omar and Kelvim

From Jenks' comments, he would seem oblivious to the fact that he has very little trade value and won't be playing anywhere else but with the Sox in 2010. That is unless Jenks is doing well near the deadline, ups his value and the sox are out of contention/ have another option at closer to replace him. I still think the sox comments about conditioning near the end of the year/ right after? were intended to spur Bobby to keep in shape in the offseason. Calling him out publicly may work for him where the "pat on the back" might not. Either way, the sox need Jenks to improve on his 2009 season. It can't hurt having Bobby come into ST in good shape.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 05:58 PM) The Sox made the trade and said he was going to play 3B. If they have a plan then stick to it IMO From the sounds of it Kenny is pumped about Teahen at 3b. But I don't think the sox will stick with Teahen at 3b if they find another player who will make them better. The sox still have the flexibility to add more pieces--esp. in free agency if players are still around in mid Jan. And they will have to add more, because they shouldn't be going into 2010 with only adding Teahen

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 07:17 PM) Pretty much. As of right now Teahen is the 3B. This is a non-story. I agree, now Teahen is set at 3b. Though if Rosenthal is hearing the Sox asking around for other IF types via trade/ free agency [besides Vizquel]-which seems to be the case by the article-then it wouldn't be a non-story.