beck72

2 run homer in the top of the 9th-Tor. takes a 8-6 lead! 5 games back after tonight if the lead holds!

He seems to hold his hands very high, drops them when he's trying to load, and the bat is late getting through the hitting zone. I hadn't seen him when he was going well.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 8, 2009 -> 01:10 AM) Yeah, I think Hudson just might be one of the answers we're looking for in the pen for 2010. Then if something happens to one of our starters, we can put Hudson into the rotation and stretch him out. I don't see why Hudson would have to spend the full year as a starter to properly develop either. Working on the side with Coop while getting to know AL hitters shouldn't hurt him. And BTW, just think about this: next year, if we bring back Freddy as a #5 and he's healthy (which he should be), then we'll have 5 guys in rotation capable of pitching 200+ innings for us. Add in a very effective LR in DJ Carrasco. If we keep Jenks then we've got our closer, and Thornton is our primary lefty and 8th inning guy. If Hudson can step up and fill out that late-inning righty setup role, then the first 6 innings are taken care of and so are most of the 8th and 9th innings. That means we can look at both Pena and Linebrink as 7th inning guys instead of relying on them as late go-to guys. Pick up a lefty specialist and we might actually end up with a well-rested and above-average bullpen next year. Wouldn't DJ be in set up for Dotel? I think long man could be filled by someone like Torres. With the top 4 SP's the sox will have, the LR won't get much work.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 04:00 PM) There is no way we have enough money for both Abreu and Figgins. Hell, we may not have enough for one of them. The Angels probably only have money for one of the two as well.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 03:31 PM) I keep seeing people say this. Is there some huge difference between playing RF and LF that I don't know about? I thought the main difference was getting reads on the ball and having the arm strength to gun it to 3rd and home. Carlos has a good enough arm for RF and has played RF well before. Carlos and the Sox were being careful with him coming back from injury. If he had to learn new movements in RF, such as planting his feet and spinning around on balls hit to his left for throws to 2nd base, that he hadn't played in 2 years, it was probably too risky to have him in RF. The main thing was just getting Carlos' bat back in the lineup and not be a liability on defense. That hasn't been the remedy most hoped it would be for the offense.

With Carlos coming back from his foot injury, I don't think moving him to RF was ever an option. We'll see in Spring Training if Carlos starts playing RF.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) This is starting to remind me strongly of the Brandon Allen threads. Are we really going to start devaluing Dan Hudson as a prospect just to justify putting Freddy Garcia into the rotation? Do we really need to break down every good thing that comes along? I don't think people are "devaluing" Hudson at all. He seems like he has a good future for the sox and could be a solid starting pitcher. I just think that he doesn't need to be moved along so fast, if another cheap, effective option exists. The sox moved Gavin, Danks and Richard to some extent along pretty fast [though with Gavin, he was nearly out of options]. If there is a lesson to be learned from those guys, it might be to start them in the bullpen to learn/ correct a few things before being thrown out there for 6 innings at a time. The sox chose to start Poreda in the bullpen, though they could have put him in the rotation. What I think people are doing is trying to make sure the guy is ready. Who knows for sure. But, besides Gordon, most of the sox prospects haven't had a good track record of being "ready for the Show" and producing right away.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 01:25 PM) Crisp only signed for 1 year with KC? He only had 1 yr left on his deal when Bos. traded him to KC. KC does have an $8 mill, option though they'll likely decline.

QUOTE (Drew @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 07:16 AM) I think that depends on what you do with Podsednik and the DH role. The only legitimate place I see for Figgins is left field, which means you get rid of Dye, move Quentin to right, and Rios in center. And that's an outfield that I think is a step up over the current one. Figgins is a better defender than Podsednik and can play almost anywhere. of course it presents a different set of circumstances. • How much more does Podsednik have in the tank? • Is Figgins at 4/40 worth that much more than Podsednik at what he'd command? • Ostensibly in such a scenario, Podsednik DHs. Is his offensive production worth a roster spot, as he isn't good enough to be a 4th OF? • What does run production look like? On the Score sunday morning, one of the hosts was talking about how Ozzie was listing to the media before Sat.'s game all the baserunning gaffes in detail Pods had made this year. Pods has been good at the plate, poor on the bases, and poor in the field. Pods will probably get a larger contract offer than the sox should be willing to fork out. Also, IIRC, it was Friday night's game that Stoney and Hawk were talking about how Ozzie wants Kotsay back for 2010, as he's supposedly shown good leadership and been a nice addition to the clubhouse. Kotsay might not be a regular. But I could see him getting a lot of time between RF, DH and 1b. If the sox truly want to have a rotation of players to fill the DH spot, the players have to be solid in the field. Pods has been unexpectedly good this year. But I'm not sold on what he could do for 2010. Now, would the sox take a flier on Coco Crisp, that would allow that kind of flexibility in the lineup? For example, the sox could have LF-Carlos, CF-Crisp, RF-Rios, and open DH spot, or LF-Crisp; CF-Rios, RF-Kotsay, and Carlos DH. Crisp's torn right labrum will drop his asking price in free agency. And the sox have been connected with him in the past. This sort of buy low scenario sounds like a KW move. Whether it'd be the right one....

QUOTE (League @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 12:17 PM) I don't personally like the idea of putting Hudson in the 'pen, how can we be sure that he's capable of pitching on consecutive days or that he'll warm up quickly, he could overstress his arm and end up injuring himself, which is the last thing we need for the kid? I say AAA or MLB rotation for Huddy, let him be insurance in case Freddy f***s up or some one gets injured. Hudson could just as easily overstress his arm throwing 3000 + pitches for a season, compared to some 800 as a reliever.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 7, 2009 -> 04:54 AM) The fact that Kenny added Peavy and Rios to the roster this summer clearly shows that we're not rebuilding in 2010. Garcia in the #5 spot and Hudson in the pen (at least, initially) makes sense on a number of levels. First of all, Freddy's arm strength has increased significantly since March and he's an effective starter right now. He's also an experienced starter who knows how to get major league hitters out, how to pitch out of jams, and and has a better psychological makeup than any rookie. Also, Freddy's option for next year is something like $2 million, which is a godsend for a team that has little to work with in the off-season. Hudson is doesn't have the arm conditioning to throw 200+ innings at this point. He's also incredibly young (22) and inexperienced, and throwing him into the rotation right off the bat isn't going to help his development. It makes a lot more sense, especially with our bullpen currently in shambles and in dire need of a couple cheap and effective arms, to start him out there and let him adjust to the majors. If Freddy continues to pitch well and Hudson lives up to his scouting reports, he very well may become our version of Joba Chaimberlain next year. If Freddy falters, Hudson can take over his spot, like Richard this summer. It's a very low-risk and low-cost scenario. With four rotation spots sewed up, I'd like to see Hudson be the White Sox version of Jon Papelbon. He very likely will get some time in the late innings this year--a better option than Dotel and Linebrink right now.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 6, 2009 -> 11:22 PM) I don't think Freddy's history has any place in the discussion, we need to orient ourselves toward the future. Dan Hudson is that guy. He's clearly major league ready, clearly has better stuff then Garcia, and would stand to benefit from being in the same rotation as Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, and Danks. I said this before and i'll say it again. This organization stands to benefit a lot more from Hudson experience sucess at the major league level then it does Fat Freddy. I like Freddy, he has a place here next year, but to give him a spot becasue of some misplaced piece of affection or tribute would be a flawed way of running a team. I think Dan Hudson stands to benefit from perfecting his pitches and approach to major league hitters first in the bullpen and then in the rotation. That would probably be in both the Sox best interests and his. Rather than burning his arm out, trying to have him go 180 innings next year, taking it a little slow with a 22 yr old, one yr removed from college sounds like a decent plan. Esp. if Freddy can keep pitching the way he has. And if the sox are going by the experience of their recent young pitchers, like Floyd, Danks and Richard, they probably don't want Hudson to struggle for one year in the rotation learning on the job like they did.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Sep 6, 2009 -> 05:38 PM) No it isn't. He threw over 160 innings last year. What makes you think he couldnt throw 180 this year and even more the next? Hudson would be throwing a lot more pitchers per batter in the bigs, as the experienced hitters lay off some of his pitches. That translates to less innings as he would rack up high pitch counts. I know Hudson has done well in each of his stops. But he is only 1 year removed from college. IMO, Hudson has a great future. Easing him into the bigs, such as in a bullpen role, could only help. Throwing him out there too soon, could only hurt. Why take the chance on screwing the kid up if a decent option at #5 exists in Freddy? I don't think the Sox want to see their rookie starting pitchers take a year of lumps [such as with Floyd and Danks and their struggles] if they can go another route. That route exists if Garcia can throw decent.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 6, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Does anyone want to give me a proper explanation for Garcia over Hudson, other then nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake? Why wouldn’t we want our top pitching prospect as our #5, rather than an aging, injury-prone vet who seems to be getting by more on guile then stuff? I did in the previous post. With the innings he's thrown this year, it's very unrealistic to expect Hudson to have 30 starts in the bigs, and log 180 innings as the 5th starter. With more selective hitters in the bigs, Hudson will throw more pitches, and less innings than he did this year in the minors. Having Freddy as the 5th SP to start the year [and he may not last all of 2010--but if he doesn't start with the sox, another team will pick him up], will allow the sox to ease Hudson into his adjustment to big league hitters. I'd rather have Hudson strong for the end of 2010, saving innings on his arm, prob. by having him throw from the bullpen, then throwing out there when the necessity isn't there. Then, if a SP goes down Hudson could be a reliable 1st or 2nd option to turn to.

I say go with Freddy, if he can pitch like he has these last 3 starts vs. two of the best hitting teams in the majors. It's not like he's beating the Royals or AAA call ups. At least one of the two-Hyrick or Torres should be the long man in the 'pen, so Carrasco can have a larger role. That means one of the two would be in AAA, along with Ely, Shirek, etc as the next immediate option as the 6th SP. What to do with Hudson, that's a little harder. He's thrown a lot of innings this year, and having him start in the sox bullpen for 2010 may keep him from wearing down. He may be ready to step in late next year. But to expect him to throw 30 starts and 180 innings is probably too much to put on the kid. Not to mention that having Hudson in the pen could be a huge lift. They'll need another arm or two and Hudson would be a huge upgrade over Dotel, and even Linebrink. Ultimately, Hudson will be in the rotation. Most likely, to start 2011. He could get stretched out in AAA if he starts 2010 in the bullpen, with one of the AAA SP's filling in a turn or two in the rotation if an injury occurs. So, keep Freddy as the 5th SP, have Hudson and one of Torres/ Hyrick in the pen, the other being a SP in AAA.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 10:32 PM) If Torres doesn't make the team as a starter out of ST, I think I might rather see him in the minors to get in work. Hell, if he has a good season at AAA and makes a few starts like he did against the Cubs if Garcia needs a break then he might get traded for Adrian Gonzalez. I think Torres would be hard pressed to have a better 2010 in AAA then he did this year. I think Torres' presence for the sox bullpen in 2010 would allow Carrasco to have a larger set up role.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 10:19 PM) You know, I typically am the guy who doesn't like to see our starters moved to the bullpen to ease them in, but I'd really have no problem at all with freddy starting the season in teh 5 slot and Hudson starting the season in the bullpen. Hudson's innings probably should be kept under control next year, so the bullpen works there, and it seems like he's at the level where there's not much left for him to work on in the minors other than learning how to get big league players out. Hudson to the pen next year I'm ok with. That's a big reason to keep him in the bullpen for next year. Esp. if he doesn't have a lot to work on pitch-wise in AAA. Hudson could really solidify the bullpen next year. Also, Carrasco could move up from long man to set up, with Torres eating innings as long man.

Felix would be a pipe dream, esp. after the prospects it took to land Peavy. To go back to the main point, though, if Freddy continues throwing well, he'd be a good 5th starter for the sox. Then the Sox could have Hudson as the next SP the sox would turn to [though Hudson should be in the sox bullpen to start 2010 if he throws like he did on Fri, night.]

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 06:52 PM) If they do bring Figgens in for 3B, we could also see Alexei shift out to CF, as he played there in Cuba. Yet Alexei's value lays in him playing SS, being able to hit for power and a decent avg. Alexei in CF wouldn't help improve the defense. If Alexei could bring in a return of say a 5 tool OFer along the lines of a Josh Reddick and a bullpen arm, filling two holes, that would be ideal.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 09:44 PM) Here's my stab: Sign Figgins, Beltre, and Damon Trade Alexei, Flowers, D2, Hudson and Getz to SD for Adrian Gonzalez and Everth Cabrera Trade Paulie for salary relief, and prospects if we can get some (SF? LAD? ATL?) Trade a minor leaguer for a young lefty reliever who is ready L Figgins CF - 3 years $30m, $10M per R Beckham 2B - $400K L Gonzalez 1B - $4.75M R Quentin LF - arb L Damon DH - 2 years $12M, $6M per R Rios RF - $9.7M L Pierzynski C - $6.25M R Beltre 3B - 2 years $12M, $6M per S Cabrera SS - $400K Rotation: Peavy - $15M Buehrle - $14M Floyd - $2.75M Danks - arb Garcia - $2M Bullpen: Linebrink - $5M Thornton - $2.25M Carrasco - $1M Pena - arb Jenks - arb Mystery lefty reliever - $400K In-house rookie reliever - $400K Bench: 4 guys at the league minimum - $1.6M Total = $87.9M + arb to Quentin, Danks, Pena, and Jenks. This should bring us to about $100-$106M or so in 2010 depending on what CQ and Danks get. That's a lot of dealing. But I could see the sox going after Beltre if Figgins is too expensive/ signs elsewhere. Only if Beckham is at SS, though, so Beltre could help on balls going to the SS hole.

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 04:54 PM) Given options, I'd rather keep Beckham at 3B. Figgins is not really in KW's budget area. Based on the ESPN article [though I haven't read the "insider" full report], it would seem that Figgins could be in KW's budget area. Figgins best position is 3b. That would also be a very good spot to "rest" a 32 year old.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 03:34 PM) I agree. If money is really tight, I probably go that route and give Thornton a shot at closing. If the Sox are in contention and the bullpen isn't getting it done, I trade for proven talent mid-season. I would've given my left nut for Figgins four years ago. He'll be on the wrong side of 30 next year and will begin to lose effectiveness as a base-stealer (he somewhat has already), so I'm not sure that I'd want to sign him as a FA. I suppose that it depends on how high the bidding war gets. He would be able to fill the chronic need as a leadoff hitter, but he'd also likely preclude us form signing another power bat to replace Thome. With JD almost certainly gone, Paulie on his way out, and Quentin's health always a question mark, I don't know if I want to dump a lot of money onto a player with a career .390 SLG. Especially after all of the money that Kenny spent on Rios. As hypocritical as it sounds coming out of my keyboard, the Sox are going to need another power-hitting station-to-station guy. As for Alexei, I realize that the Sox could probably get a lot for him right now because of his favorable contract. But with Danks and Floyd relatively affordable for the next couple of years and under team control, and Mark under contract for two more years, I don't think that you trade Alexei for prospects at this point. Especially after trading for Peavy. If you want to win now, Alexei gives you some really good bang for the buck. The sox don't need Figgins to steal bases. But they would need him to play solid 3b, get on base and hit for avg at the leadoff spot. Figgins is likely to be an effective hitter for the next 4, 5 years. His game isn't all dependent on stealing bases. It's about making contact, getting IF hits, bunts, and drawing walks. The angels need to shore up their pitching, re-sign Lackey/ Abreu/ Vlad, and Figgins is down on the list. The sox would seem like a team that could be in the bidding [which is sounds like they are] for him and could land him given the right dollars and years, like 4yrs, $10 mill. per. Whether the sox would do it, who knows. But some team should give him that type of contract. As far as a power bat goes, they could use Flowers as part of a DH tandem for 2010 and use it to rotate people in by giving them days off, and the sox sound like they realize they need a lefty bat, like Thome for 2010. Thome wants to play, and should land a DH spot somewhere. There aren't a lot of teams that would be in the bidding, esp. that fit Jim's criteria of playing for a team that has hopes to play in a World series.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 02:26 PM) Boy I am putting on a flame retardent suit because I will make an unpopular suggestion. Before we trade Alexi, a young player with cost certainty for several years, we have to be sure Beckham can play shortstop at the major league level. Don't get me wrong, I love Beckham I just haven't seen him play SS. I am confident that Nix is not an everyday SS. Alexi in the field has perplexed and frustrated me, but if the staff thinks he can improve, I keep him. Figgins makes sense for this team, but creates 4 players for 3 positions. (I like Getz/Nix at 2b as decent production and cheap). If Rios is your best defensive centerfielder, what about Alexi in left? The two would cover a lot of ground. The sox do a good job of knowing the talents/ ceilings of their players--esp. position players. If they think Gordon can play SS in the majors [who, while he won't cover as much ground as Alexei, most likely will not make as many bone headed plays], and they have someone at 3b set for a few years in a guy like Figgins, Alexei has more value via trade than at 2b or the OF. Alexei, IMO, fits in better with the sox of old [his easy outs, inconsistent defense, prone to long slumps, HR or nothing], than he does with the sox of 2010 and beyond. That said, Alexei is a talent that other teams may covet, but whom the sox expect will improve and help them for 2010. The sox talent level, in the minors and majors, still needs to improve, even if they sign a free agent. Alexei might be one of the few trading chips [along with AJ] that could help the sox improve in 2 areas such as getting a young OFer and an arm, both of whom could help the 2010 team.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 02:52 PM) Some good info and ideas there beck. FYI, it has been reported that the Sox have an option on Garcia for next year, so they won't have to sign him. Also, I'd rather see someone more established in RF, but I understand that you are trying to be realistic and stay within salary constraints given signing Figgins plus arbitration raises. Some might argue against Torres and Hudson in the bullpen, but I don't think it is such a bad idea considering the Sox need some cheap talent in the bullpen. Thanks. Freddy and the sox would be a good fit for 2010. The bullpen should be OK if those two would be added. And Pena has a spring under his belt working on things. RF could be filled by Kotsay. With Rios and Quentin, no big contracts should go to a 3rd OFer.

I didn't see any mention of this in any threads, but I thought I would put it here. If the sox are intent on signing Chone Figgins, [which ESPN Insider is reporting, http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/ru...atures%2frumors ] it would have to be to play 3b. It would make a ton of sense to get Figgins for 3b and the top of the order so the sox can add young players like Flowers, Beckham, and Jordan Danks to the everyday lineup in 2010 and 2011. If that’s the case, the sox then would probably have to do a few things: 1] trade Alexei for some good talent—at least a young OFer and a Pitcher who could play in 2010. Say to Boston for OF Josh Reddick and a pitcher, prob. a bullpen arm. Reddick could then compete for the RF job, along with Jordan Danks and Mark Kotsay; both Reddick and Danks would likely need more time in the minors, so Kotsay could start the year in RF, and eventually be replaced by one of those two. 2] Kenny also said [ http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=cws ]he would need a LH bat for 2010. That could mean Thome coming back for at least part time duty. He could prob. Get a 1 yr, $5 mill. deal. Not sure what other lefty bats would be available to hit vs RHP. But Tyler Flowers could bat vs. LHP as the DH and at C to give AJ days off. 3] sign Kotsay for the bench and to play RF/ 1b 4] Sign Freddy Garcia to an incentive laden deal to be the 5th starter. Hudson might be ready. But to make sure he could start in the bullpen and help there. 5] Have Dan Hudson and Carlos Torres in the bullpen; Both could be stretched out if a SP goes down. But the bullpen needs shoring up. Instead of spending money [on who exactly] go internal. Hudson could be a Scot Shields type who could go 2 innings at a time. Having him pitch in the bullpen would save his arm, instead of having throw a lot of innings in AAA. Here’s what the lineup would be: 1. Figgins-3b 2. Beckham-SS [R] 3. Quentin-LF [R] 4. PK-1B [R] 5. Thome/ Flowers-DH [L] 6. Rios-CF [R] 7. AJ/ Flowers-C [L] 8. Kotsay/ Reddick/ Danks-RF [L] 9. Getz/ Nix-2b [L] Bench: Nix Wise/ Gartrell Flowers Lillibridge SP: Buerhle Peavy Danks Floyd Garcia/ Hudson/ Torres Bullpen: Torres [long man] Carrasco [7th, 8th] Randy Williams Hudson [7th, 8th] Linebrink [7th, 8th] Thornton [7th, 8th] Jenks