beck72

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 04:57 PM) Teahen should be playing right field or DHing. Winn is getting old, he had a bad season offensively in San Francisco last year, but his glove is still decent. I don't actually think he's worth 5 million in the market right now. I like the idea of Beltre, his home/away splits are crazy. Safeco has sucked the life out of him, but I'm not sure $7 million per is enough for him. Either way, like you said, for any of these deals to be done, we need to shed some contracts, most likely Konerko's or maybe even Jenks' arbitration. Winn's been pretty consistent with the bat, as well as above average with the glove. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=OF I think he'd make a decent bet to bounce back to his 2007 and 2008 numbers on offense, hitting close to .300 and a .350 OBP. Esp. if he could get some days off. IIRC, he was dinged up a bit this year. Winn has played in at least over 149 games in each of the last 8 seasons. Not to mention if the sox do rotate players at DH to keep guys fresh, then Teahen could play RF as well, or move Rios over to RF at times. The thing with Winn is he'd be an upgrade on defense, a good bet to hit well on offense, be affordable, and short term. Another name similar to Winn could be Coco Crisp. I'm not sure if Crisp though will be completely healthy to start the year. Beltre and Boras could be more expensive [in terms of cash and years] than the sox are willing to pay.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 05:18 PM) I'm glad the Sox aren't set in stone with Teahen at 3B. Beltre would be a good option for 3B, but I've been on the Placido Polanco-for-2B bandwagon since October. Maybe bringing in Vizquel lessens the need for a Spanish-speaking, good glove, mentor-type, but Polanco could solidify the D, bring some leadership and bat 2nd in the line up- allowing Beckham to slide down to the number three spot, where he's destined to hit. Welcome aboard! Polanco would seem like another name that could move Beckham back to 3b. I wouldn't have minded Polanco-a few years back when he was with the Phils. But he's lost more than a few steps defensively. His bat would play nice in the lineup, though. I guess it would depend on the money and the years he's looking for.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594 I'm glad to hear the Sox seem to be keeping their options open regarding Teahen at 3b. I guess it comes down to who the Sox can add at 2b, 3b or the OF that would allow them to move Teahen away from 3b. Here are a few options that come to mind: 3b: [Which would move Gordon to 2b, and Teahen to RF or 1b]. *Adrian Beltre. Wouldn't cost a draft pick, though he's a type B. Seattle won't offer him arb. Would solidify the left side of the IF with his defense. Would likely get a 2 yr, $12, 13 mill. deal. The sox would still need someone for leadoff, such as a Randy Winn for RF or Pods for LF. I like Randy Winn for RF [1 yr, $5 mill], with Teahen for 1b. Beltre's power should come back moving away from Sea. and getting healthy, which could make up for Winn's lower power numbers in RF. Under this scenario, Konerko would likely have to be moved to afford both Beltre and Winn [most likely in a salary swap for bad contracts]. Thome could then be signed for DH [1 yr, $5 mill] and provide the sox with LH power. Getting all signed would be tough. Though the sox could sign Beltre to a lower 2010 salary, such as $5 mill. in 2010, and $7 mill in 2011, with PK's salary coming off the books. The sox could sign Pods to lower deal, have him for LF, with Quentin going to RF. Yet I like the defensive improvements that Beltre and Winn would give the Sox. *Chone Figgins. Too expensive. Likely not happening. 2b: [which would move Beckham back to 3b, and Teahen to the OF or 1b] *Orlando Hudson. Though the sox would likely lose their 2nd rd draft pick, he would likely take a 2 yr deal, for $11, 12 mill. He could hit at the top of the order, and is solid at 2b. *Felipe Lopez: It wouldn't cost the sox a pick, as he's a type B. And he's a better defender than Hudson. Hudson is a better overall bat, and Lopez may have had a career year at the plate in 2009. Lopez should get a similar deal as Hudson's 2 yr deal, for $10, 11 mill. I question Lopez as he's moved around a lot, not by his choice. What are some other options/ ideas if the sox are still looking at having Teahen for other than 3b?

If true, I like the deal. The sox didn't have a true back up at SS. Now they would.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 16, 2009 -> 09:46 PM) The key to me is that I have a theory that the Angels part is an expanded piece of the deal and that in general the majority of the deal could be done without the Angels getting involved. Although I think Kenny would like some improved flexibility and is trying to get creative so that he can clear payroll to fill some other holes while holding onto an extra prospect or two. My thoughts exactly. This move of PK's salary would allow the sox to still fill other holes. The angels also could use PK to replace Vlad, w/o being stuck for 3 yrs with a DH.

I think the sox could go one of two ways: 1] they could target Chone Figgins [or an All Star type talent via the trade route] and spend basically all the offseason cash [the $10, 11 mill.] on him. That would mean picking up a DH on the cheap [$1 mill. deal] and filling the bullpen holes from within, or on minor league deals, or a trade. That would also mean moving Teahen to RF or DH. or 2] They could spend money on mid level talent such as on a Randy Winn for RF [$5 mill.], Thome for DH [$3 mill], and the rest on bullpen arms. I'm torn which way to go. With the starting pitching so strong, the sox should take advantage of this opportunity to win now and the near future. Getting a leadoff man such as Figgins means the sox could bring up Danks and Flowers in the next year or two and ease them into the lineup at the bottom of the order. Yet the sox would handcuff themselves with a Figgins contract for likely 4 years. With Konerko's contract coming off the books in 2011, it might be doable. It's a tough market for Kenny to improve the sox.

The only way the sox could pull it off would be in a 3 way. Yet I still don't buy into Granderson being dealt. The Tigers, IIRC, have a lot of cash coming off the books after this year.

MLB Trade Rumors speculates that Joey Votto could be dealt, esp. if a team takes on a big contract like Aarong Harang or Bronson Arroyo [both making over $12 mill for 2010, then have $2 mill. buyouts in 2011]. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ My question, what would it take to get him? It would probably take a SP like Floyd / Danks and Flowers to be a starting point, and even then I don't know if the sox would have enough. Thoughts? Votto's LH bat would awful in nice at 1b until 2013 when he could become a free agent.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 10:36 PM) I can't imagine that Pods would be a great choice for DH though. You're going to want better than a career .720 OPS at that spot. I'm thinking more that Pods' bat would look good at the leadoff spot, with close to a .300 avg. and .350 OBP. I don't want him in the OF. Now, if Randy Winn could get back to his 2007 or 2008 form, I could see him playing RF, and the sox adding a power LH bat for DH.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 11:29 PM) In his 2 years with the Sox Quentin has had one non-self inflicted injury which happened to be an ailment that lingers for months with the only real cure being rest. People are getting seriously carried away with the "fragile" tag. So in his career he's had a shoulder problem that dated back to his college days, a hamstring injury that held him out for less than a month in '07, he punched a bat/locker/wall in '08 and contracted Plantar Fasciitis in '09. If he tears his ACL next year I'll jump on board but right now there's no reason to believe he needs to be protected at the DH position. If the sox did add Pods, it would be mostly for DH, but Quentin could see some time there as well. Yet I'm not overly concerned about Quentin's health. There isn't a lot of reason to be extra cautious with him at his age and health status

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2009 -> 10:21 PM) That has the potential to be a truly terrible lineup, like bottom of baseball bad. I agree. But with the way things are looking, esp. at the payroll, I have a hard time seeing the sox making many more changes than that.

The sox could very well be looking at this type of lineup in 2010. Can't say I'm overly impressed. But it would be an upgrade defensively. 1. [DH] Scott Podsednik 2. [2B] Gordon Beckham 3. [LF] Carlos Quentin 4. [1b] Paul Konerko 5. [C] AJ Pierzynski 6. [CF] Alex Rios 7. [3b] Mark Teahen 8. [sS] Alexei Ramirez 9. [RF] Jordan Danks Bench: Tyler Flowers Jayson Nix Mark Kotsay De Aza

If Toronto was looking to shed salary, Overbay's $7 mill. would be one way. Yet they were looking at Chris Snyder, who is owed $11.25 mill. over the next 2 years!? Not sure if they want to add a decent catcher or shed salaries. It would likely mean more than Armstrong and McCulloch for Overbay, like say a bullpen arm like Nunez. If the sox added players, they could prob. have Tor. add in money to a deal. If the sox did move Konerko to DH, it might keep him healthier, which would also mean more productive at the plate. I do like the idea of adding in a lefty bat that can hit 30 + doubles as well as between 15-20 HR's.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 9, 2009 -> 01:22 AM) At the end of the day, the Sox traded a bust of a prospect, a solid but limited 2Bman for ~$2 mill 3Bman who is a slight upgrade, moves Beckham over to a slightly more natural position at 2B, and opens up a 40-man roster spot. I don't understand why anybody is really making a big deal out of this either way. And even more so, if the Sox find any type of outfielder capable of starting - because Quentin can move to RF and it'll be an upgrade defensively, and if Rios moves to RF because the Sox got an even better defensive CFer, even better - or find a 3Bman, and they'll be fine. I know Williams said that Teahen is set to play 3B, but that probably just means he has his sights set on a certain player, and if he doesn't acquire said player, they'll look at other options. You know we are bored when a small trade like this gets almost 1000 posts. True. But the interest in the Teahen trade also leads to us speculating about what the next moves are going to be because the sox aren't standing pat this offseason only adding an average 28 yr old 3b who has some chance of improving on his career stats.

Jenks will be offered arb. and stay. His trade value isn't that great. And his departure would leave the sox short in the pen. While he may get a raise, and is going to be making a lot, signing a FA would also be a big risk and expensive, w/ decent arms like Valverde and Rafael Soriano wanting a 2 or 3 yr deal. Trading for another proven bullpen arm to replace Bobby would cost a lot in terms of talent. The sox still need to add an arm for the bullpen, but if they had Booby gone it would leave 2 holes to fill. The sox want an improved Jenks [esp. getting into better shape] and made it pretty clear publicly where they stood about him. IMO, they are trying to light a fire under Bobby, by calling him out right after the season ended, to get him to be in better condition, so he may earn his high salary.

I know Kenny is talking up Teahen at 3b. But his best fielding year was in 2007 in RF. He had 17 assists in 137 games, and had a UZR of 6.8.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) I'll never understand your desire to get rid of Alexei. Simply put, he's worth so much more than he's making that you'd have to get a ton back in a trade to move him. I don't see anyone, including the Red Sox, paying the price KW would be looking for. Also, I think 2B is where Beckham belongs. IMO, that's where he's best suited to play and offers the best value to the club. Moving Konerko would be great, but why would anyone want him at $12 million? Yes, he had a solid season but there are so many 1B/DH type players on the market that he seems somewhat untradeable without giving some cash or taking back some contract (not necessarily bad) back. Finally, while I think Danks has a great future ahead of himself, I don't think you can start the season with him in your lineup. We already have enough question marks throughout the lineup. If some things do go wrong, you don't want Danks struggling in the #9 spot to add fuel to the fire. If Alexei could improve on his 2008, while playing a solid SS, there wouldn't be a question of moving him--even if has mental lapses and a low baseball IQ. Everyone thought Alexei was a building block like Quentin after his 2008 season. I'm not sold on him being able to improve on his rookie year. His trade value and the talent the sox could get in return, may be too hard to pass up. If Beckham could play SS, getting someone else to play SS wouldn't be hard. The sox have few top level talent guys coming up in the high minors--except for Flowers and maybe Danks. The others are 2+ years away. I only said that Konerko would have to be moved in order to afford a guy like Figgins. I know it isn't likely. I also said that Danks prob. isn't ready until later in the year. Even then, he shouldn't be counted on to hit anywhere except 8 or 9.

QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 11:29 PM) I basically hated Alexei at shortstop for most of the year, but I did feel he got a lot better in the last 2 months. His range and awareness seemed to improve. I don't think you can do that if you've quit. If anything, he looked more focused, not less. He did improve from all the mental lapses early in the year. I'm still not sold on his baseball IQ, though--esp. playing the most important position on the diamond.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 10:35 PM) He hit .282 and .283 in Aug and Sept. Not sure when he "quit" according to you. And Gordon isnt going to be the SS of the White Sox or any other team, give it up. Kenny called out guys on the sox and said they quit. We'll know who he was talking about after this offseason. IMO, Alexei is one of those guys he called out. And Alexei started hitting late in Sept. The article also stated that some in the sox org. thought Gordon was going to be switched to SS, not 2b. I'm just saying having one of your key bats learn another new position doesn't make a lot of sense. He'd be better off staying at 3b.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 11:11 PM) No way do they trade Alexei. I'm going by Kenny's comments late last year talking about guys who "quit". I bet Alexei was one of those guys he was talking about, as his body language and play in Aug. and Sept. certainly looked the part. There were few guys Kenny could be pointing the finger at and he certainly won't ruin a guy's trade value by berating beforehand. Teahen may be "penciled" in now at 3b, but I think a better glove man is out there, such as Beltre or Figgins so the sox can move Gordon to SS.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) Thanx. So Konerko would have to waive his no trade clause and who would be willing to add that kind of salary AND give up a player ? Sure seems like KW has to be creative or Jerry raises the payroll to get other pieces to this puzzle. The only other huge salaries are Peavy, Buerhle, & Rios. The Giants would be a good fit for Konerko, as they were competitive this year and could use his power. I would think he'd waive his NTC to be closer to his AZ home. I wonder if Rowand would lobby him to go there?

A few things struck me reading that article. 1] Jordan Danks may be closer than most people think. But he still shouldn't be counted on for the top of the order. If he comes to Chi. in 2010, it will be to hit near the bottom of the order. Thus, the sox need to acquire a leadoff hitter, as they don't have one in the system. 2] Getting a guy like Orlando Hudson makes a lot of sense to play 2b and hit leadoff. I don't buy into the sox moving Beckham to 2b and learning another new position. Gordon's bat is going to be critical to the sox success on offense. 3] If Teahan is better at 3b than Gordon, then I could see Gordon moving back to his natural spot at SS. 4] Gordon at SS means Alexei could be dealt. Alexei could then bring back a key bat and pitching help. IMO, the next big move is Alexei being dealt. That would pave the way for Gordon to move to SS. Then the sox could sign Hudson or less likely, Figgins. The sox would have to move a salary like Konerko's for them to afford Figgins.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 03:18 PM) It is step one, there is no doubt in my mind. I think Kenny realizes that a move like this allows him to do many different things as the pieces he has left can be arranged many different ways. I totally agree. If Kenny is willing to overpay for Teahan [in terms of $ and Getz], he must value the versatility Teahan brings, in that it allows the sox to go in multiple routes to fill their holes. Teahan is a big drop off from Dye, and won't be the only move made. The sox may try to sign Figgins for 3b, then Gordon would likely go to 2b, then a PK trade would probably be made for salary purposes [low salaried, young players, a bullpen arm]. If the sox don't add Figgins, Teahan could see time at 3b, with gordon moving. I just get the feeling that a Teahan deal would be made as insurance if other moves [such as a Figgins signing] don't pan out. He's decent and hits from the left side. Yet he's not a regular on a playoff team. If the sox strike the right trades and sign a FA to their liking, Teahan would be too expensive of a bench guy and could be dealt. IIRC, Teahan was viewed as a semi-hot commodity around the trade deadline.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 6, 2009 -> 01:26 AM) Phil Rogers is commenting that the deal allows the Sox to potentially explore a Konerko trade, which would than free up payroll to make a FA splash. An unnamed scout is indicating that the Sox are likely going to get cash. Teahan isn't the power bat to replace PK. Though he is likely to see an increase in SLG% hitting at the Cell. Even if the sox are on the hook for $3.5 mill for 2010, that seems like a lot for Teahan. Esp. as he doesn't seem above average in any facet of the game. I guess the only FA splash that makes sense is Figgins. But 3b is his best spot. A lot of other pieces would then have to shuffle around, with Alexei and Gordon [though I've always thought Alexei would be moved this offseason]

The sox aren't going to spend the $8 + mill. a yr for 2 yrs that some other team will offer Damon. And they shouldn't, even to have him DH.