beck72

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 05:42 PM) Danks, Jenks, Ely, and Torres? Wow that seems like a lot. It looked like one of Danks or Floyd or Jenks, and the 3 prospects. I doubt Jenks and three prospects that don't include Hudson would get a deal done for Fielder. I wouldn't include Hudson in a package.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 07:47 PM) Contreras and the other 5th starters were actually quite a bit above average in terms of performance of 5th starters. I wouldn't do this deal as written, but the reason we lost wasn't that the 5th starter was giving up too many runs, it's that the offense wasn't scoring against the other team's starters, the defense was allowing too many unearned runs, and the bullpen couldn't hold leads. IIRC, about a week and a half ago, for the year, the Sox 4th and 5th SP's were like 15-29. with an ERA in the high 5's or low 6's.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) I wouldn't. AJ is not going to play forever. And remember the mess of crap that caught before we had AJ. If we truly believe Flowers is the real deal you keep ahold of him with both hands and you develop him. Exactly. The question becomes is he ready to catch fulltime in 2010? I don't know.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 02:21 PM) I would rather have Flowers act as AJ's backup for the year. Let him learn from AJ, let him adjust to being a catcher at the major league level as well. AJ is going to be a type A free agent after next year. Flowers + AJ gives us a pretty good hitting tandem for catching and allows Flowers to develop at the major league level. That would definitely come into play in any trade scenarios, with the sox needing to get enough talent to offset the loss of AJ's talent and the draft picks. With his $6.25 mill contract. he's a lock to offer arb. to.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) The other thing to remember when thinking about parting with AJ is how many games he does catch. Its not that common, and with a guy like Flowers or whoever, you're also probably going to get 15-20 more starts with the back-up, especially if Flowers gets used as a DH occassionally. If you could guarantee Flowers could catch 120 games and but up Beckham-like numbers, you could live with his defense very easily. As good as he was in AA this year I'm not convinced he can put those numbers up next season in the AL. I'm not going to judge him on his sporatic ABs this month, but he does seem to be someone who still needs a little polishing. Everyone close to the team has said the losing bothered AJ more than any other player. They also said that while he isn't the most liked player in the clubhouse, he probably is the most respected. AJ means more to the White Sox than his numbers. That might be even more reason to trade AJ, with so many young players looking to him [like it or not] as a leader. With Dye and Thome around, Aj not being the "most liked" wasn't a big deal. The young players could look at Thome and Dye as examples of how to play the game and conduct themselves on and off the field. What the "football incident" seemed to show, was Ozzie telling the vets to set a better example for the younger players.

My Dad is a Rays fan who lives near TB and was really frustrated with Upton all year long. A big reason was his K's and hitting at the top of the lineup [though Upton didn't make out the lineup card].

QUOTE (1977 sox fan @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) not sure trading aj is a good idea but maybe . i believe he could bring us some value in a trade not sure what teams need a catcher other then toronto but i dont think they would want aj they probably want a younger guy as they wont be in contention for awhile . package him with jenks I know one team that could use an upgrade at C is Tampa Bay. While his contract may be "big" for them, he's a local guy and could help them in 2010.

Another wildcard in the "keep AJ around for another year", is his being looked to as a leader for the young players in 2010. We know how Ozzie liked-- at least what probably happened--AJ's football watching during the game. With Dye and Thome gone, their leadership will be gone as well. PK has always been the quiet, lead, by example type. Ozzie has talked about Kotsay being a leader this year, and wants him back for 2010. AJ's on the field contributions are unquestioned, and plays all out. I just don't know how much his off the field/ clubhouse contributions will help or hurt the younger players

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 3, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) Trade AJ and put Flowers behind the plate and you will also get a very nice draft pick in 2011. If Flowers were a lock to be a good major league player in 2010 maybe you think about trading AJ. Maybe. Trading AJ would be suicide. I thought for a while Ramirez may be a guy they traded, but with his contract, I don't think trading him makes much sense either. If Flowers were able to put up Beckham type numbers in 2010 at C [.270/.350/.460], would that qualify as a good major league player? I guess hitting was never the question with Flowers. His ability to handle a staff and catch/throw out runners were/are the big questions.

Don't get me wrong, I like AJ. He's stepped up this year and has been a rock behind the plate. Yet the sox do have Tyler Flowers seemingly ready for the bigs. The sox would definitely be trading high on AJ. Yet isn't this something the Twins and Braves have done so well, that have stocked their systems with great young talent? The sox have multiple needs that cannot be filled without getting very lucky in free agency [on a reclamation project that could be signed for a low cost deal] or via trade [like Quentin] or the waiver wire [ala Jayson Nix]. The sox should use one or more of their trading chips [guys with value, like Alexei or AJ] in order to fill the holes in the bullpen and lineup. Trades may also help increase the talent level of the sox minor league system, with adding pitching or a few position players that could help in 2010. Besides Flowers, there doesn't seem to be someone who could crack the 2010 lineup. That kind of depth is sad. The big questions would be: Who would trade for a big time catcher like AJ? And what kind of talent could AJ bring back to the sox?

Kotsay returning makes a lot of sense. He can play 1b when PK needs time off, PH, and play some RF. Kotsay at least can play a better RF than Dye. I don't think Pods will be back. The sox could use him at DH. But Flowers needs to hitting/ playing everyday and DH is open. Flowers should get most of the AB's at DH and be back up C to AJ. The Sox do need an everyday player who can hit from the left side and play an above average RF. Or who can play a better CF than Rios so that Rios can move over to RF. Pods in an OF spot hurts the defense. Wise has the glove. But his bat hovers around .200 for a reason-he can't hit major league pitching for a team that thinks its a playoff team.

One thing to consider is Linebrink should be good until the ASB. He's been solid the last 4 years until the break and then thrown like crap. That should leave the sox time to find another arm for his 2nd half fade.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 28, 2009 -> 09:32 PM) Then, Balta, I ask you: What teams would consider acquiring Rios? A lot of people on here have a high opinion of him. If we could deal Rios we'd be better equipped to acquire some other guys. Do you see any team that might have an interest in acquiring Rios for scraps? Rios isn't being traded [unless he gets on fire in 2010 and the market for him starts and the sox add a big % of cash]. There is no market for Rios.

David Murphy makes more sense than Cody Ross. The Sox need LH power, esp. with AJ gone after 2010 [if not before].

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 27, 2009 -> 08:50 PM) No, Reddick does not impress me so much that I'd deal Alexei for him. Besides, that does not help us in 2010. You say he should be ready midseason 2010, but even if he is then that'll mean he's ready to play and learn at the MLB level, not ready to produce for a contender at the MLB level. We'd look at him as a player to throw out there in 2011 and hope he produces then which does not help us at all. He's rail thin like Alexei but he doesn't have Alexei's bat speed or contact rate, and he isn't productive in the Majors right now like Alexei is, and even his walk rate in the minors isn't a whole lot higher than Alexei's walk rate in his second MLB season, and also Reddick's position is much easier to fill than Alexei's is. Basically, I wouldn't trade Tyler Flowers or Dayan Viciedo for him, so I'd have a hard time trading Alexei for him considering Alexei is already productive. In fact, I don't even know if I'd trade Jordan Danks for him straight up. Pods is NOT a stopgap anywhere. Putting Pods in LF with CQ in RF is going to make us swiss cheese defensively, and even that's probably a better option than Pods in CF with Rios in RF. Crisp makes $8M next year if the Royals tender him a contract, which is a lot of money for Coco Crisp. If the Royals non-tender him, then he'll still probably get $4M or so. So you're talking about spending probably at least $8.7M or whatever on two reclamation projects in Hardy and Crisp, and you're willing to justify that because of some overhyped Red Sox prospect who won't even be ready to contribute until 2011. Yeah, no thanks. Kenny isn't going to sell low on a cheap, productive MLB player at a premium position to buy high on an overrated-by-you prospect and a setup man. That's just not his style at all. Now if you're talking about Bard and Delcarmen, then I could see an argument for that because it solves our bullpen problems from the right side and allows us to trade Jenks for salary relief, and the prospects received there could go towards a solution at SS. But if we made that deal I still wouldn't target JJ Hardy immediately. I'd look for a more cost-effective solution at a lower risk, and JJ Hardy is neither of those. Ha, you say Alexei has more value than Javy and you're suggesting we deal him off for less than what we got for Javy. Flowers is a MUCH better prospect than Reddick is and I wouldn't give up Flowers, Rodriguez, and Gilmore just to get Delcarmen. That deal sucks really bad and does not make us a significantly better team in 2010. It just jacks up the payroll. A few things: *if the sox traded Alexei in a deal, the sox should get at least one top 100 prospect. Reddick is in most top 100 lists. While he could be a key component, I never said it would straight up. Pitching would also be high in a deal--esp. near ready pitching, which is very valuable. I also said I didn't know the value of Alexei. Once you know what other teams would offer for him, the floor would be set. Alexei would seem to have a return similar to what the sox got for Javy. Flowers was a top 100 prospect. But not in any top 50 lists. *The sox need to acquire someone with the potential to be an all-star, someone young, who can hit from the left side. While a deal may not automatically make the sox better in 2010, the sox need to make a deal like they did for Flowers--get a top notch hitter--without hurting the 2010 team. The Javy trade did hurt the 2009 sox more than Kenny thought, with the 4th and 5th SP's a big drop off. A stop gap signing in the mold of Crisp on an incentive laden deal could do that, while the young talent gets closer to the bigs. *Kenny told the scouts, IIRC, after spring training to "scour the minors for Ofers". That is prob. who the sox will trade for this offseason. The sox are thin there and have openings. It makes sense that the sox would try and acquire someone with lefty power.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 08:25 PM) Reddick's K rate this year went up a ton and over a full season at the same levels he'd have been on pace to K about 130 times or more, and that's just at AA and AAA. Against MLB pitching that would raise even further, so I don't think he's ready for 2010, and I don't see Kenny dealing a major piece for someone who will not play in 2010. And I'd never, ever deal a player like Alexei for a prospect like Reddick. Probably 70% of the time or more that would result in us losing a very productive player while gaining nothing. Hardy would be another bad choice. We'd again be giving up a productive Alexei for a guy who got demoted to AAA at the age of 26 for putting up an OPS of .657 while supposed to be a power hitter. Hardy makes $4.65M this year while Alexei makes $2.2M through 2011. If Hardy were to return to form in 2010 it is even conceivable that through arbitration Hardy will make more in 2010-11 than Alexei will make for us from 2010-2014. Because unlike Hardy who is only under team control through 2012, Alexei is under team control through 2014. And furthermore, if Alexei gets hurt for some reason his contract still wouldn't be an albatross. If Hardy got hurt, or if he just failed to have a rebound season in 2010, then his deal would be immovable as he'll get at least his same $4.65M in arb this year. If Kenny traded Alexei for either of these players he should be strung up. If we trade Alexei we need to get a superstar in return. But if we did trade Alexei for a superstar and SS opened up in the process, then I'd target a lot of players before I'd go after JJ Hardy. I'd look for a low-risk, low-cost defensive solution at SS and I'd probably go hard after Maicer Izturis or something. A few things: *So Reddick doesn't impress you? Granted he might K a bit. But his .871 OPS in AA, along with possessing a cannon of an arm, having 41 career OF assists in the minors, and having LH power, and can play RF and CF, would fit in well next to Gordon for the next 5 years or so. Reddick probably isn't ready to start 2010 but would prob. sometime later in the year. Yet a stopgap for the OF like a 1 year deal for either Pods or Coco Crisp [Crisp because he could allow the sox a lot of defensive versatility, and Pods isn't likely to repeat this years numbers] would probably be the smart move regardless if the sox try and acquire a foundation piece. *Alexei isn't going to net the sox a superstar. Mostly because he isn't one. Yet he could possibly net the sox a player who could turn into one, or be a foundation piece for the sox on offense. IMO, the sox need a LH bat who hits for power and is an asset on defense. That kind of bat is only available via trade, and would come from the minors. Alexei has that kind of value. Reddick is possibly that kind of player. I also said a trade for Reddick would involve another player at least. A pitcher like Manny Delcarmen-though you could go with more upside like a Felix Doubront, Stephen Fife or Stolmy Pimentel, and a lower level prospect. I don't know the market for Alexei-I'm just trying to be realistic. *I didn't say to trade Alexei for Hardy. But if it took Jenks to land Hardy, then the sox could get additional players who could help-say a bullpen arm for 2010 and another prospect in addition to Hardy. *Hardy is another likely guy to bounce back offensively. The sox have been big on buying low [Pods in '05; Dye; Quentin; now Rios] and counting on the bats to pick up the next year. Defensively he would seem to be what they need from a SS. *Jenks and Alexei have more trade value than Javy and Swisher. It stands to reason that they should get more than just a Tyler Flowers out of a deal[ though Flowers seems like a legit hitter in the bigs].

It seems like players were watching football and more concerned about those games than the sox game. Who takes his football seriously? AJ for one, and his Gators. And they were playing starting at 5 pm chicago time.

QUOTE (cornball @ Sep 26, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) Depends on the budget for next year. You have basically 70M tied up in MB, JP, GF, Garcia (4/5 of the rotation for 2010), PK, AR, AJP, Thorton, Linebrink, and Rios. With arb for Jenks, CQ, Danks, and Carrasco. If you think the team is going to get a new SS with AR under contract for 1.1 for the next 2 years, this is highly unlikely. AR problems are more mental than physical and he will improve defensively. Hopefully he will put 2 halves together at the plate. They have money to make a splash and would have more if PK or Jenks are moved. The Sox are in great shape heading into next year, with help needed at the corner outfield, DH and pen. The infield and rotation are set. It should be fun to see. Welcome aboard! I agree with that statement. I personally want a SS who isn't making mental errors--and not many physical ones either. So if Alexei is moved, he'd likely bring back 2 players who could be on the sox 25 man roster. Jenks could bring back two players as well. I could also see Konerko being moved-as long as it was a team on the west coast, that he'd waive his NTC for.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 07:58 PM) Now that i think about it, it's not crazy to think CQ could get dealt. In this market, a team may want a cheap player who is coming off an injury. Thats how bad some teams wanna get better on the cheap. If they could deal from a position of strength and give us somewhat higher priced players in return, theyd do it Obviously we need corner OF so i wouldnt call it likely. But KW has shown a willingness to trade a cheap goodvalue name before (McCarthy) It is very crazy to think Carlos could be dealt. He's the type of guy the sox should look into acquiring [coming off an injury, high upside], not trading. The sox offense is built around Carlos and their success depends in large part on his bouncing back from injury.

*JJ Hardy [prob. for Bobby Jenks] and a bullpen arm/ SP from AAA, AA; with acquiring him to play SS, it would allow the sox to trade Alexei Ramirez for: *1] Josh Reddick from the Red Sox; he's another Georgia boy a few months younger than Gordon; Yet he's a LHB who hits w/ power, and is a great defender in the OF-could play all 3 spots, though projects best in RF; hit .277/.352/.520 in AA; didn't hit well in AAA, though; *and 2] a bullpen arm.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 25, 2009 -> 05:51 AM) Starting pitching was never the problem this year. Defense, LOB, poor base running have been the constant all year. Oh and the other teams have starting pitching too. Phil Rogers had the numbers today that in 60 starts for the sox 4th and 5th SP's, the had a 15-27 reocrd, with a 4.90 ERA. The back end of the rotation was a problem this year. That even included Freddy Garcia's numbers.

If I were to label, in order, the biggest underachievers for the 2009 Sox, as far has hurting the sox chances for winning the Central, I'd go with: 1. Quentin. Even if he was hurt, his lost 2009 really hurt the Sox. Now, can he come back strong in 2010, coming near his 2008 season, I think so. 2. The sox defense. I don't know how many unearned runs the sox had, but they gave away game after game. 3. Dye, his 2nd half. His missed RBI chances with him hitting under .200, are a key reason the sox were under .500 in the 2nd half. 4. Poor 4th and 5th starters for the first 2/3 of the season. The sox couldn't mount a winning streak with two big holes in the rotation. The offense wasn't strong enough to overcome many deficits. 5. Streaky PK and Thome in the 2nd half. AJ, Pods, Beckham, even Getz/ Nix, and Alexei put up decent numbers in the 2nd half. Yet with all the power guys hitting at or below their weights, no one was able to drive in the guys at the top and bottom of the order.

Most interesting is seeing who quit. If Kenny and the staff think a guy has quit, he is gone. That said, who do you think is among the "quitters"? Heading my list is Alexei. His body language, watching him on the TV and at games, scream to me, "I want this season over". It looks like he's going through the motions. Dye, maybe, as he's had a horrible 2nd half and prob. wants to end the year. Others?

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Sep 22, 2009 -> 08:04 PM) KW said if the team constucted as is won't produce, expect the team to be much different next year. He said he will use his 'imagination' quite a bit. I expect the team to look much different next year. Dye and Dotel will walk and I expect KW to pull off some shocking trades this winter. Guys who most likely will be brought back is our rotation 1-4, Quentin, Beckham and Rios. Everything else is up in the air at this point. I agree. I guess I'd add Thornton to the coming back list, and AJ, [though I could see the sox getting some decent talent back for him, and he's one of the few guys who has done anything and has been solid all year]. PK also has been decent overall, though getting Flowers playing time might be an issue if both are around. Alexei looks like a dead man walking, with his arguing strikes, and body language that screams "I'm done". He, IMO, still has the most trade value

QUOTE (WCSox @ Sep 21, 2009 -> 10:34 PM) Unfortunately, even in this day and age, a certainly small minority of idiots are going taunt players with this type of language. But guess what? It's professional sports. Bradley is getting paid $20 million to put up with it. If he can't act like a professional and tune those clowns out, he doesn't deserve to play professional sports. He shouldn't have to put up with the racial taunts in his home park. The Cubs organization should crack down on this type of garbage. Like it was reported, Baker, Jaque Jones and LaTroy also had the same things happen to them. It's been a long time and no one there has done anything about it.