beck72

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Sep 5, 2009 -> 05:41 AM) Their's a fairly significant disparity in numbers between the two that suggests that Nix is very much the better player, and by a wide margin. This is not to take anything away from what Getz did tonight. He looked very impressive out there. I'd say there is a fairly significant disparity in performance that suggests Getz is the better player.

Alexei does have great range and an arm. Yet he's so prone to bone headed moves in the field, that he may not be the type of SS you want to build your team around. Right now, I don't see a lot of options for the Sox. Unless the sox move Beckham to SS and get a guy for 3b like Adrian Beltre, who could possibly make up for the drop off in range.

I think Phillips had a good take on the sox. They are playing hard. But when the big bats go silent, it seems like they aren't trying. Even if Dye, PK or Thome hit a double, they can't score from 2nd. Or if they get a single, the sox need an extra hit to score them. So it takes two hits to get those guys in. The Sox big bats haven't been high average guys--except for Dye's .292 avg in 2008. And while Thome has had a nice OBP, Pk and Dye haven't sported big OBP's. That's why Quentin's silent bat this year has been a big loss--someone who can hit for avg, power and have a high OBP. The sox need guys who can hit for a high average [.290 and above]. AJ has hit for that this year but no one has been able to drive him in. The sox need to acquire, either through trade or free agency, another starter who can be a consistent .300 hitter. That's why Figgins would be a very good fit for the sox, even for the $10 mill he'll likely get [though I see the Angels re-signing him so I don't see him as an option]. He doesn't need to steal bases. But his game of making consistent, hard contact, taking a walk, switch hitting and leadoff abilities would serve the sox younger team well going forward. Getting a healthy and productive Quentin, a Rios that resembles the 2008 version, a full year of Beckham who can hit for over .280 with improved power, would be a nice nucleus. Dye probably will get a decent contract from another team, though he could likely produce numbers like closer to 2008 than this year, with him playing full time as DH. That's why I could see Thome being DH for the Sox in 2010, on a smaller contract than Dye will get. The sox also need his LH bat.

I don't think the sox have quit. The way they're hitting and fielding, it makes them look awful, tired and listless. This has been the same type M.O. for years-easy outs up and down the lineup, missing pitches they should hit hard, pop flies to the infield, 1-2 pitch at bats. When they are slumping at the plate, it seems a 1 run deficit is like they are down 10 runs. Or a 1 run lead for them is going to be lost. This is the type of offense that needs to change.

When I mentioned before the trade deadline that the sox should gauge Alexei's trade value [though realisitcally, this offseason was probably the time to move him, as long as the return could be some decent talent, say to Boston for some young arms] I was roasted by many. It's hard to make Alexei the scapegoat, and he isn't the reason the Sox are hovering around .500. But he does kind of epitomize the "lack of passion", esp. when he was supposed to be a building block. This team has needed the vets to step up each year for the sox to have any chance. Right now, PK and Dye are scuffling. I don't think they lack passion. They just lack youth. And consistency. They both have often been all or nothing hitters for long stretches. When they are going south, they really go south. The 2009 offense was supposedly built around Carlos and Alexei [who also was very inconsistent, with hitting 0 in April, May, and Sept]. With Carlos not healthy, and Alexei not improving on his rookie year, the sox have relied on two very nice surprises in Pods and Beckham who, without those two, teh team would be battling KC and Cle for last place. Carlos, and Beckham are 2 very nice building blocks. But it's going to be a struggle to find consistent other peices to build around those two for 2010. Rios is a big question mark--though I like the deal. He needs some work on his swing. Getz/ Nix could be decent. AJ is a keeper. Pods is worth another look for a cheap price. It might be worth testing Pk's value, and see if they can swing a deal and have him waive his NTC. I just don't think the sox have a lot of options to improve their offense. What would be ideal is to sign Figgins for 3b, move Gordon to SS, trade Alexei for some talent, and have Thome an option at DH.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Aug 21, 2009 -> 03:32 AM) I figured you read that article that was posted and just didn't understand UZR, but here it is anyway. Nix UZR is 4.6 Getz UZR is -3.6 Nix OPS is about 100 points more than Getz. Again, the insults, huh? That will get old real quick. Rickie Weeks' UZR is 4.9. Let's put him at 2b. Juan Uribe's is 4.8. Stats can be deceiving. But some facts don't lie like hitting 40 points higher. I think the sox can do better than having another Uribe at 2b fulltime. Getz may be the answer. But Nix certainly isn't.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Aug 21, 2009 -> 03:18 AM) So because the White Sox don't sub in Nix late in games, that means that he isn't much better than Getz defensively? That is extremely stupid. All the statistics say that Nix is a much better fielder. You can keep thinking that he isn't just because the white sox don't sub him in late in the game. No facts or reasoned argument but only insults? Nice. Less than a month on the board. Not good. If Getz was the liability you seem to think he is, the Sox would sub Nix for him late in games. Teams do it all the time for better offensive players but weaker defenders. Getz isn't that weak.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Aug 21, 2009 -> 01:04 AM) Nix is also pulling his own weight defensively, walking, hitting home-runs, and essentially doing everything, but hit for a high average which is a statistic that is pretty much meaningless given that he’s doing all of the aforementioned things. The numbers don’t lie. Nix is the better player, by a fairly wide margin. I don't care how many hits per AB's he has. I care what he does with the hits that he has. As a bench player filling in for an injured player, I agree, Nix is doing a decent job. But he shouldn't be a starter on a team that has playoff aspirations. His weaknesses will be exposed with regular playing time. Those 3 k's vs. Grienke weren't an aberration. They'd be a textbook way to pitch to Jayson each AB, come crunch time in big games coming up. Nix can't handle a breaking ball low and away--eerily reminiscent of Juan Uribe.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Aug 21, 2009 -> 01:10 AM) OPS and far superior defense isn't a decent case? Maybe I missed your argument, and just saw your quips, but I didn't see a well thought out case from you that others have made on behalf of Nix. "Far superior defense" is a little vague. If Nix's defense was so superior to Getz, then Getz would be replaced in the field by Nix every time the sox had a late lead. The Sox staff know the strengths and weaknesses of both players far better than us. Getz isn't a liability in the field that people seem to think he is I think the sox can do better than Uribe reborn. I like Nix as a bench player, but not as a starter.

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Aug 21, 2009 -> 01:56 AM) So? That doesn't mean they are right. This and "If you know so much, why don't you manage the team?" are the worst arguments out there. You obviously can't "take it up with them". Horrible argument. Using fielding percentage to judge a players defense... ugh. I give your post 5 out of 5 facepalms / It's up to the Nix backers [like you] to prove your case that he should start over Getz. Make it. I've seen sarcasm but not a decent case that Nix should get more AB's than Getz, at least from you.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 09:00 PM) No its not. Scouts have been saying he's a 2B for awhile now and the Sox agreed that he wasnt a SS. His range just isnt good enough for that position, he's a good 3B, and should stay there. Beckham was moved from SS in order to practice at 3b, because Fields blew. Whether that means he'll never play SS again--that is a huge stretch. He wasn't moved because the sox think he's better at 2b or 3b. The Sox had an opportunity to improve the big league club and took it. It worked out. But it shouldn't rule out a move back to SS.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 04:20 PM) The argument is who is the proper second basemen, right now. Getz’s evolution as a baseball player appears to be more long-term then anything. Right now, defensively and offensively Nix is the better developed player, and therefore, would contribute more in the race for the division this year. Ozzie and Company seem to disagree with you. Take it up with them. I also don't get the working theory that Nix is a defensive whiz and Getz is a hack who can't catch a cold. By my eyes and the stats say Getz isn't a big drop off from Nix. Getz has a .983 FPCT and Nix has .978 FPCT at 2b. If Getz was that bad at 2b, Nix would come in as a late inning defensive replacement in close games. That hasn't happened, except for some pinch hitting.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 07:56 PM) I make it 8.2 runs on defense and 7.5 runs on offense. So in significantly less playing time than Getz, Nix has been worth 16.7 runs or approximately 2 wins more than him. But he's not a grinder so he couldn't possible be better :insert perplexed emoticon here:. All this is a moot point. We fans can say who we prefer. But in the end, the sox will play the best guy they believe give them the best chance to win. IMO, Getz should get the most time at 2b. When Getz is healthy, the Sox staff seem to agree that he deserves the most AB's this year over Nix.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) Totally agree sir!!! being a contact hitter and putting the ball in play............anything can happen. (This is probably a poor analogy, and I by NO MEANS are comparing the two), but in key situations, I fear the heck out of Palanco at the plate a ton more than someone like Maggs. Palanco YOU KNOW will have some sort of contact, and chances have greatly improven of something positive happening. Is Getz Palanco? HECK NO! Even Close! NO!!!!! Will he ever be? Probably Not! BUT............and here's my point...............he has a lot more upside in putting the ball in play than Nix does. I don't know about you, but I've had about enough of "Go for the fence or nothing at all" at bats in key situations. Had enough of that with Brian Anderson (And yes....as you stated....and good point by the way.......Uribe.) Getz is a scrappy young grind-out player with good base-stealing speed as well, (and granted) that he still has a lot to learn and improve on, but his upside in going in the direction that this organzation would like to go is greater than Nix. I think Nix on this team is GREAT because of his versatility in giving guys rest in various positions, and a backup for injuries, but as an everyday one position, consistent at bat player.........I'll stick with Getz. His contact is better. His speed is better. His strike-out per at bat ratio is less........... Getz 43/311 to Nix 38/171. Nix....approx. 1 K per every 4 at bats. Getz....approx. 1 K per every 7 at bats. and it's still his first year! What's not to like??? Polanco is the type of player you want on your team, if you aren't a power hitter. He's valuable in other ways, besides hitting the ball out of the park. And Getz is much closer to Polanco than Nix. And to push the comparison further, Nix is closer to Uribe than Getz. The sox have had too many Uribe type hitters, and Nix has shown very similar qualities as Uribe on offense. I know both are young and it's kind of unfair to label either at this point. But if you project to the future, and want to find players to build around, Getz would more likely be a foundation piece than Nix, who likely projects as a utility guy.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 01:29 PM) It's not ironic. I haven't been clamouring for a lineup full of grinders, and like I said right at the beginning of the piece the majority of Sox fans want Getz. So there's really no irony involved. And as for the people arguing that Getz is the better hitter, all the stats disagree with you so I don't see how you can have an argument, but for those of you who are still trying to argue it, Nix' defense is so much better that any slight offensive edge that Getz might inconceivably have would be eliminated by Nix' defensive advantage. Also was that a typo or did you really mean that Getz can do a lot of things? Because all I've seen from him is the ability to hit for mediocre at best average, with a below average OBP, almost non existent power and below average defense. The only thing he's been good at is stealing bases and those are hugely over valued as it is. To quote a certain Congressman, "On what planet do you spend most of your time on"? Except for power, Getz has outperformed Nix offensively. And if Nix was given extended time, other teams would figure out how to pitch to him [breaking ball low and away] and his numbers would drop even further. Right now, Getz is hitting better than Nix's career avg in the minors. And it's bound to improve. Sox fans have [rightly so] for the last decade decried the softball type offensive team, one that lives and dies by the home run. Nix is that type of hitter. He makes little contact, hits for power, and can be an easy out. No one wants a "lineup full of grinders". But having a versatile lineup, of different type hitters [those who can make contact, work counts, hit for average and can hit behid runners if they don't hit for power] is a good thing for an offense. The sox have been too one-dimensional for a long time. And, IMO, Getz fits with the "new" Sox better than Nix. And, Nix hasn't exactly been a world beater on defense, esp. given his "gold glove" rep. from some prior to coming to the sox [iIRC, Carney Lansford said Nix was the best he's ever seen at 2b?]. I'd expect both to improve on defense. But Getz isn't such as horrible defender that Nix can start despite hitting less than 40 points lower than Getz. Batting average is still kind of important these days, isn't it?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 10:07 PM) Gordon is our 3B for next year, and probably many after that. He's not going to play SS in the majors. Viciedo probably wont be playing too much of 3B for the Sox if any. It's way too early for that. No one here really knows what Gordon looks like at SS. Neither do the sox, as he's only played 3b and 2b here and in ST. While he probably doesn't have Alexei's range, he may have the brains and hands to make up for it. Whether Gordon is a Jeter [with whom the Yanks stick with at SS] or a Michael Young [who they move for the betterment of the team], it remains to be seen.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 06:26 AM) Learning to keep pitch count down is something that a lot of pitchers have to learn to do in AAA before they make the jump to the bigs. That's why I would not look to have Hudson be the 5th starter in 2010 to start the year [though he could compete for the job in ST]. He's made huge leaps this year. But he's still really young and could probably use more time in AAA. When Hudson comes up, I want him to stay.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2009 -> 01:18 PM) Ironic that on a board that has been b****ing for years and years about an "all or nothing approach" there's a thread about an injury to a guy who can do a lot of things being a good thing because it gives a prototypical all or nothing hitter more playing time. Exactly.

For all the Nix backers, who talk about his potential, has anyone seen his minor league numbers, that include 2 years in AA, and 3 years in AAA playing in the thin air of CO? In 3250 minor league AB's, he's hit .261/.332/.415. He is what he is-a decent backup who would be/ is being exposed once he gets regular playing time. It would be a huge jump for him to even become a decent starter. I for one want a starter to be better than a .228 hitter. In fairness he should be able to improve on his avg. in the coming years, as this is his first extended time in the bigs. Yet the same holds true for Getz, and he should be able to improve on his .267 avg. Seeing how Getz has handled big league pitching in his first year, as well as his minor league numbers [in 1420 ab's, he's hit .286/.361/.381], it's very plausible Getz could that could be a starter for a number of teams beside the Pirates and Nats of the baseball world, which are the type of teams Nix could possibly start for. This question of Getz / Nix is very confusing. The sox in previous years had been a all-or-nothing offense, prone to long slumps, high in strikeouts, overly reliant on the HR to score. Yet the sox have a guy who is the polar opposite of that, a guy who makes very consistent contact, hits for avg., and people want to go back to a younger Juan Uribe?! I don't get it. I could see wanting to improve on Getz. He may not hit more than .280 and post a .350 OBP. In my world, I want someone for 2b who can do that, as they aren't power hitters. But Jayson Nix isn't an improvement over Getz, not for the type of team the Sox are trying to build right now, with the power hitters in Dye, Thome and PK. When Getz returns, he should get the bulk of playing time.

I'm not too down on Alexei for his getting caught when the ball dropped. That happens when no one expects the ball to fall. But I am down on him for having a very low baseball IQ. People can point to Alexei being clutch with a few home runs. But his defense has let the sox down far, far too many times this year, that hasn't always showed up as errors [ie not turning DP's due to his being out of position, not coming in hard on slow grounders, hurried throws, not stopping throws to 2b from AJ-which almost led to a fight]. It has led to the pitching staff throwing many extra pitches, unearned runs, and in some cases losses. The question going forward is what do they do? Esp. if the "he's young" tag/ label doesn't work next year, and he doesn't improve his defense. If Gordon stays at 3b, his ability to play SS may suffer long term. There isn't an option at 3b, besides Gordon for 2010 [unless by some strange set of circumstances, the sox can get Figgins at a discount-which I don't see happening]. Yet I could see a scenario where the sox move Gordon to SS if Viciedo is ready for 2011.

Sign me up for the "Getz will have a better MLB career than Jayson Nix" group. Getz probably has the upside of a solid starter. Nix as a superutility guy who could start 3 times a week. Getz isn't overmatched at the plate, as shown by his high contact rate. Nix routinely is overmatched vs. tough pitchers, esp. on offspeed pitches, reminding me of Juan Uribe with a little better OBP. I'd give Nix the edge on defense, though.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 19, 2009 -> 10:38 AM) The more I hear about Mitchell, the more I think of Tony Phillips. I have no problem with a leadoff hitter hitting .240 so long as he gets on base at .400 and steals 30 bases while putting up an .800 OPS.\ If anything, the only thing I would miss was the spitting every 3 seconds. No man on earth spits more than Tony Phillips. In fairness, it's still way to early to make those comparisons. Mitchell hasn't played baseball exclusively and is less advanced than most college draftees. He was drafted because of his tools and that he had the upside of a high schooler, but with a little more experience.

The Sox are by far underachievers. Yet I like the sox talent level better than last year, and think they could do some damage if they get to the playoffs. Last year, the sox were lucky just to get in and were overmatched. The sox talent level has been stepped up, even if the wins haven't been there. And the sox have only had Rios for a short time, Quentin hasn't been the same, and Peavy hasn't thrown an inning. With the Rios and Kotsay additions, the sox position players should be well rested for a late run. That is if the defense and the pitching hold up. The bullpen should be set come Sept., with the roster additions.

QUOTE (forrestg @ Aug 15, 2009 -> 02:45 PM) Success in trhe minors doesn't necessarily mean success at the big league level, cotts. In Cotts defense, we took him out of birmingham and he never developed a third or fourth pitch. Cotts had fits of brilliance in 05. Hudson might be the real thing. Bring him up Jose doesn't look good at all. However; Jose is totally unpredictable, remember when we thought he was through before and then reeled out what was it 10 in a row. I think that was with the help of El Duque. THe bronze titan still has the talent, I think we should call Elduque up to be an assistant pitching coach just to help with our once great Contreras. Because as it goes presently Jose is way too inconsistent. I know that. But seeing how the Sox are looking for a 5th SP, and the brass is looking at Hudson as a possibility, they might soon try him. Whether he's successful or not is a different question. The sox have tried Torres, their best option from AAA. Hudson and Freddy are the next best options.

That the sox sent Hahn and company to watch hudson pitch, I could see him getting a start very soon. They must be pretty confident that he could be successful. Then, depending on how he threw, as well as Freddy, Jose may be AAA bound. Jose has to get some consistency. He likely won't get that in the bullpen.