beck72

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 31, 2009 -> 05:21 AM) I'm not talking about throwing away the division or giving up. The 2006 Cardinals were an anomaly, though. That was an otherwise decent team hampered by injuries that got healthy towards the end of the year and had things work out for them. Not a mediocre team that "got hot at the right time." Things like that are flukes and it would be better if people acknowledged that when talking about World Series contention. If you're looking at finishing with wins in the low 80s and barely winning the division, all you have is hope. Which is fine to hold onto as a fan. But at least be real about what it is. Baseball is a game filled with anomalies. That's why the Yankees haven't won despite spending obscene amounts of cash year in and year out. The sox have the starting pitching and bullpen to compete with just about anyone. It's the offense and the defense that are the big question marks. Even though the sox have been average, they have the talent to be more than that. This team was built around quentin being the #3 hitter, with Dye, PK, Thome and AJ taking a back seat to Q. The 2008 Carlos has been gone all year--the damn MVP of the league if not for the last month. He carried the sox for much of last year. Carlos could still very well get his stroke back and carry this team. On defense, the sox are bound to improve, as Getz, Alexei and Gordon get more experience [and Pods can't run in on balls to save his life, but that's another story]. But that's part of the learning curve with young guys, living with mistakes on defense and at bat. Baseball's always been a game of streaks. Who gets hot at the right time, who stays healthy, usually wins and gets into the playoffs. And that's what this game is about--being one of eight teams with a chance to win it all. The sox are in the position of getting on a streak and getting into the playoffs. More importantly, IMO, is that the sox overall talent level--both in the minors and the majors is definitely on the rise, and in a nice position to be upgraded [with salary coming off the books]. Even look at what the sox could start in the playoffs compared to 2008. The 2009 Sox with Pods, Quentin, Beckham and Getz >>>> than Cabrera, Wise/ Swisher, Griffey/ BA and Uribe.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 07:09 PM) According to Keith Law, Alderson's stuff has deteriorated to the point where he thought it was a fair deal. So you are saying if you were a GM of another team, you would have no problem giving up your top prospects for Thome, Dye, Dotel, Contreras or Jenks? Do you understand how draft pick compensation works? The team would have to offer the players arbitration to be eligible for the draft picks. If you were the GM that means Thome would be offered at least $11 million, and he would have to turn it down. The White Sox free agents to be are looking at sharp reductions in salary except for maybe Dye, but I don't know if I would want to pay Dye $12 million next year. So the draft pick compensation thing isn't going to work. I could see the sox signing Dye to a 3 yr deal, in the neighborhood of $21-24 mill. Re-work his deal, like they did with AJ.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 05:00 PM) He doesn't have much value by himself, but fathom is probably right in the sense he could be a decent piece in a package for a bigger trade. Other GM's and scouts have eyes. If we on this board can see that Fields can't hit a 90 mph fastball right down the middle of the plate, other teams notice that as well. That's why most of the time, opposing pitchers only throw 3, 4 pitches to Fields-he's like a #8 hitter or the pitcher hittting in the NL. Few teams will offer anything of value for that kind of bat playing 3b or DH.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:43 PM) He asked to be traded b/c he was sent down thanks to a terrible decision by KW. If he wasn't sent down, he doesn't ask to be traded. Then KW has the top-flight defender he's looking for now without trading our 1st round draft pick. OK, say the Sox trade Fields for Pie. Do you think BA has more upside than Pie? Personally, I'd say Pie has more upside and has a better chance of figuring things out than BA. So basically, it would mean replacing BA and Wise on the roster with Pie and Kotsay. IMO, Pie has more upside than BA, and Kotsay is the better vet.

While Pie isn't a big base stealer, he can bunt, and play solid defense, with good arm, and range. The question is, is he a better 4th OF option than Wise? Probably. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Felix-Pie.shtml

I have no problem with this. Both, IIRC, Pie and Fields are out of options and need to stick with the major league club or be waived. Pie, even with his weak bat, could be as valuable as Wise + has some upside. Pie has to have more value than Fields, at this point. At least the sox could work with him in the cages and see if something is fixable. Fields is a lost cause.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) I kind of shake my head a bit over the issue of giving CQ a rest-maybe what we need is CQ to start hitting the ball and that will give us some insurance. Kotsay for Anderson is not the answer for anything in my book Would you agree that keeping CQ healthy is the best thing for the sox org. in the short and long term? So far, the injury has only seem to have affected his swing--though he wasn't swinging the bat well prior to getting hurt. CQ has been able to move pretty well on defense. But if Kotsay can provide some players with a rest-including CQ, but more PK, Dye, and Thome-without hurting the offense, it would be a net positive.

Jordan Danks should be untouchable in possible trades for a number of reasons: 1] he hits at the top of the order which the sox have few players capable of doing that; 2] he plays a position the sox are very thin at; and 3] it might affect signing his brother to a long term deal. Now, that said, if Jordan turns out to suck, and John signs a deal, then by all means, it's a business, see ya Jor. But jordan is coming along nicely, seems to fit in well with the "New Sox" core that is being built, and should be sticking around in order to see what he can do as a member of the White Sox.

The sox are frustrating to watch. Yet I'm surprised that they didn't look horrible vs the Twins [if you can say getting swept isn't looking horrible.] That's a good thing. That means they aren't overmatched vs. the Twins like in years past. The Sox aren't the best team in baseball and they aren't the worst. They may not make the playoffs. However, they are in a position to finish the year strong, and be able to make a push for the playoffs. With what the sox are doing as an organization-changing the core of their team while still being competitive-that in itself is an accomplishment. The sox have had no minor league system for nearly a decade. With the picks the sox have made, it's damn surprising the sox haven't been horrible each year. The sox do have reinforcements coming with some solid minor league players. This will give the sox trade flexibility and the talent to be above average year in and year out. That's the key to winning the AL central. Getting back to this year, one key is getting Q back to something similar to what he was last year. His timing is way off. The second key is staying healthy.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:45 PM) I would offer Poreda, Richard and a PTBNL (Viciedo) for Crawford. Tampa could take those guys and ship them off in their own mega package to Cleveland for Lee and VMart. We could use Alexie as bait to acquire a young starting pitcher. I'm definitley hoping KW gets creative in the next day and a half. . But i would be ecstatic if we aqcuired Crawford and a young starting pitcher. A young SP, someone who can throw in the 2010 rotation, would likely only be available in the offseason. And then for a major league player, not a prospect. The sox aren't going to trade a starting position player this year. I do like the idea of trading Alexei, say to the Red Sox for one/ two of their young arms.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:36 PM) Here's a guys opinion on another Sox prospect that has failed miserably and joins the cast of BA,Reed, Borchard, Sweeney, etc. There are moments in this world, they don’t come around often, but there are moments when, and I’m not exaggerating here, there are moments when you are forced to look in the mirror and tell yourself, “There ain’t no one in the world who can do what I do worse than I do it.” There’s a pride in that sort of honesty. A certain amount of realization that could possibly create some sort of cathartsis. Some sort of monumental change that will transform that person from their current, lousy self into something better. Arizona’s Chris Young desperately needs that moment. Now. As it currently stands, Chris Young is easily the worst everyday player in all of baseball. As of yesterday, in 49 games played totalling 175 PA, Young had a league worst .220 OBP. That’s a full 21 points lower than the next worst. Part of the reason for that low OBP (in addition to his astounding BA of .174)? How about the fact that he has only walked 8 times all year. Eight! That’s 4.7% for a guy who used to be the leadoff hitter. Combine that with the fact that he strikes out 28.7% of the time and you see a guy with the 6th lowest BB/K in the entire sport (.17). Now Hef. Sure he’s not doing anything to get on base. But he’s probably hitting the ball hard every now and again right? No, dummy. Weren’t you listening? This guy has almost no value with his bat. His slugging percentage is an impressive .313 which puts him behind such sluggers as David Eckstein (.322), Willy Tavaras (.335), and Yuniesky Betancourt (.344). He has 11 doubles, 1 triple, and three home runs (along with his 14 singles for a grand total of 29 hits all season). But at least he’s stealing bases, right Hef? Right? Totally. Of the 23 times he’s sat on first base this season (not counting fielder’s choice outs–14 singles, 8 walks and a HBP), he’s swiped 4 bags. But he’s also been caught twice for a SB rate of .667 which is below the magic number of 75% which is supposedly the break even point. So…he’s costing the team runs in the few times he’s actually getting on base. Which is bad. I think. But certainly, certainly, oh dear god, certainly he has to be a good defender? Right? He can’t be utterly worthless, can he? Finally. You finally got me. Chris Young has been pretty good with a glove this year. He’s fast, has a decent eye for running routes to the ball and has made 2 or 3 great jumping catches to end the game and save the (few) wins for the team. He isn’t utterly worthless. And Kenny was roasted mercilessly for trading him for Javy Vazquez, when Young was pounding HR's the last 2 years. The sox won that deal, getting nice production out of Javy, and still have a chance to make it a steal depending on how Flowers, Gilmore and Rodriguez do. [And Lillibridge is hitting more than his weight, something like .260 now]. But Chris Young was not a top pick, something in the late teens, IIRC.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) That's a great post, and that touches upon something that is a way bigger concern for me. If we're going to transition the organization the next few years to install guys like Flowers, Danks, Viciedo, and Mitchell into the lineup, then Ozzie has got to be more comfortable with having young players on the roster. I know him and KW are super competitive, and that's a great thing to have. However, they're going to have to deal with growing pains for these players, as all 4 of those guys I mentioned are likely to have different aspects in which they need significant work at the major league level (mostly, making contact) Ozzie and KW are going through that now, dealing with the defensive lapses of Beckham, Getz and Alexei. And with Richard, going through some learning on the job, not throwing strikes, hoping he'll develop like John Danks and Floyd, being ready to go all of 2010, some 30 starts with a sub 4.00 ERA.

QUOTE (Big Daddy Kool @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) Most of our minor leaguers from the Schaffer era have been awful, that might be the answer. Exactly. It has nothing to do with race but everything to do with performance. The sox are trying to win, and the young players who come up must produce. The Sox call up players from AAA/ AA who are/ were supposed to be major league ready. That hasn't been the case with the sox farm system. That's an indictment of the farm system, not Ozzie, Walker, or Cooper. If the players the sox tried and failed, yet had success elsewhere, then it would be a failure of the Sox staff. But few players who didn't make it on the sox have had much success elsewhere. If Ozzie didn't handle young players "correctly", then all the Joe Borchard's, Sean Tracey's, + Arnie Munoz's of the baseball world would be playing on major league rosters now in the bigs. Failure is failure, no matter the color or race of the player. If a player is called up from AAA, where they had been doing well by most statistical standards, they should be ready to play in the bigs. Most sox farmhands haven't produced when called upon. That's on the minor league farm system and the people who believed the prospects could play in the bigs.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 05:58 AM) I wouldn't mind getting Wladamir Balentin. I don't think he's worth Fields though. Balentien has put up good numbers in the minors, [slightly better than Fields] and is a year younger. At least he seems to have some upside that Fields hasn't. I'm not sure what Balentien's struggles are, but they can't be worse than not being able to hit a 90 mph fastball, could they?! And the sox get more OF depth for AAA, 4th OFer. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/W...Balentien.shtml

QUOTE (beck72 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 01:20 PM) The Sox can't take the chance to be left with little OF depth before the trade deadline. They need to add an OFer, esp. someone who can play a solid CF, and also be able to play RF or LF. I know Carlos is due back. Best case scenario would him being healthy and playing 5 times a week in LF. With him still not running well, I don't see that happening. Worst case, he gets hurt and misses significant time. Yet I see him taking a lot of time at DH, resting Thome vs. LHP, if he stays healthy. And that's a big IF. The other thing to consider in adding another OFer would be that the sox can keep Dye and Thome fresh [i don't see Konerko getting much of a rest, other than having Fields spell him once a week]. By Thome's comments from last night-'I felt like a kid after getting 4 dyas off'-the sox need to keep their big bats fresh for the 2nd half. Adding another bat who can contribute more than what BA and Wise have, is a must. The sox won't go anywhere with a weakened, worn out middle of the order. If the sox have to start Wise or BA, the other big bats won't get much time off. The question is who to add. It prob. won't be a rental. Someone who can contribute in 2010 and beyond would prob. be best. Alos, the names who'll be FA's after 2009 out there don't really seem to add much to the sox [besides prob. Holliday]. *Alex Rios. He's got a full NTC. His contract is low this yr, [$5.9 mill.] and wouldn't cost the sox much additional cash this year, or a huge boatload of talent, esp. from previous years. A good "buy low" possibility. The questions would be 1] if the sox think Rios is worth the $60 some mill. over the next 6 years, and 2] if the sox could swing a deal. I'd be a fan of this, as Rios can play CF, Pods play LF, CQ could play some RF and DH. *Vernon Wells. He's owed $98.5 mill over the next 5 yrs. No dice unless the Jays paid a ton of that deal. And Wells has a NTC. *David DeJesus. Not a big fan. He's avg. in LF and CF would be horrible. He'd likely cost a lot in terms of talent. But he'd be an improvement over BA and Wise. And he's owed only $4.7 mill. for 2010, with a $6 mill club opt. for 2011. *Matt Holliday. I know the A's are asking for two top prospects. Even with offering him arb [he might not get a deal for more than his $13.5 mill this yr], I don't see him as fit, as he plays LF. Depends on if Fields could be one key guy included. *Mark Teahan. Can only play the corners. Also likely cost a lot in terms of talent. *Juan Pierre. He's still owed $18.5 mill. for the next two years. Having to LFers w/ below avg. arms in the same OF? Not a good prospect. I'm just not seeing a whole lot out there. But the Sox can't keep playing Wise or BA regularly. Even with CQ coming back, an OFer will still need to play a lot to keep Carlos from re-injuring his foot. And to provide insurance in case Pods or Dye get hurt. What other names are out there? Or should the sox add another starting pitcher--someone who takes the pressure off the offense? Looks like I called this one. Kotsay fits most of my criteria, though he doesn't seem to play much CF anymore. He does play 1b, so Paulie can get a rest. Not too bad of a pick up for what's out there.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 29, 2009 -> 04:44 AM) Looks like Freddy Sanchez is close to going to San Fran. Again, Lexi should have been shopped, as I have talked about over the last two days, Lexi with the Giants would have made a ton of sense. Lexi should be shopped in the offseason--depending on if the sox can get Figgins for 3b. A Lexi trade should net the sox a young SP, who the sox can plug into the rotation for 2010.

Fields was given every opportunity to succeed. It's on him that he didn't produce. I'm sure he wants another org. to give more chances to play. But if he can't hit a 90 mph fastball, he should be looking at another career. This just goes to show how bad the sox scouting dept. was with another failed #1 pick. I'm just glad it seems to have improved with Beckham and Mitchell looking good, as well as a number of decent prospects picked in later rounds. As far as why keep Wise---it's irrelevant here. It's pointless to keep re-hashing the BA-Wise "who's the better 4th OFer" debate. The sox need someone off the bench, who can play 1b, LF, RF, pinch hit, and who can produce. Fields isn't that guy. KW seems to think Kotsay is. Better now to get something for Field than to have him sit at AAA and cry about not playing.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 27, 2009 -> 02:22 PM) Perhaps a pending trade is influencing the stated intentions for Colon and Richard. If the Sox were trying to swing a deal that involved Clayton Richard, wouldn't it make sense to say that he had earned a spot in the rotation? Maybe they are trying to move Colon and think that "keeping him in the rotation" enhances his value. It would probably take a lot more deception than that to create any value for Colon, but I can't think of any reason they would actually favor Colon over Richard. Welcome to sox talk! The only reason I could see having Clayton move is to help the bullpen which is struggling now. Going forward, I can't see why the sox are still holding onto Colon. Carlos Torres has better stuff than Bartolo and could move in now. And the sox still have Poreda and Freddy both getting stretched out to start.

Quentin's scuffling now. But no way would the sox trade him. #1, the sox wouldn't get 1/2 the value for him that he's worth, as teams would be reluctant to take on a "injury risk"/ guy with one very good year. Most GM's aren't the risk takers that KW is. #2, Q's more valuable to the sox with his salary, OBP skills, ability to hit for avg. and SLG, decent speed, and ability to play either LF or RF than most teams. Q is one of the centerpieces of the "New Sox", as they transition from the softball sluggers to a more versatile, well rounded team. You simply can't replace what Carlos did last year. It's taken decent years from Dye, Pk and Thome to make up for Carlos's off year.

There should be some movement, with a trade of some sort to clear things up. I wouldn't rule out a Colon trade, with the sox seeming to have guys for the 5th spot in this order: Richard; Torres; Poreda; and Freddy to take over for Colon. Unless the sox are really concerned about the bullpen, it doesn't make a lot of sense to move Richard now. I'm not sure how many outs Colon has left in him. Overall, though, Richard in the pen would help them out a ton, as he could go 2 innings at a time no problem.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 03:50 AM) Considering how last offseason went, I think a lot fewer teams will be offering arbitration to players unless they are elite. Very true

The key is who or what are the D backs looking for, IF [a big one] they do trade Haren. My guess is it wouldn't even happen until the offseason, as they haven't really seemed to be taking offers on him, like Toronto and the Indians are doing for their aces. If it's pitching, then a deal starting with Floyd and Poreda as the two centerpieces would make sense.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 11:50 PM) Haren is an elite pitcher. Floyd is not. Haren gives us a much better chance to win a game than Floyd does. If Floyd is the only guy on our 25 man roster we'd be giving up (with the exception of Pena and Wise,) I'd pull the trigger. It's a better deal than going after Halladay I agree. Haren and Floyd are both locked in for for 3 more yrs after '09, with the 4th a team option yr. The difference is IIRC, $25 mill. Is Haren $6 mill a yr better SP than Floyd? Yes.

So, if Floyd was part of a deal for Haren, who else would likely be needed to add to the package? Floyd, Viciedo, Poreda, plus another prospect? If reports are true that the Sox were rebuffed twice already for Haren, Floyd is likely part of the 3rd deal offered to them.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 25, 2009 -> 03:50 PM) The Orioles will be asking for Closer value for Sherrill where as the Sox would be using him as their 2nd lefty out of the pen. Not a great fit for the Sox, you'd definitely have to overpay. It's like the Twins trading for Victor Martinez to be their backup catcher (extreme example), he's only going to start maybe 15 games for them the rest of the way but the Indians don't give a s*** they'd be asking for talent in return equivalent to that of a top 5 catcher in the game of baseball. That's another reason why Sherrill doesn't make a lot of sense. Though, if the sox fail to get an "elite" SP, getting an elite bullpen arm is a decent back up plan--as long as the asking price outrageous. I guess knowing the asking price for a player--elite or not--is smart business.