beck72

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 07:36 PM) @BNightengale - #mlb White Sox have Edwin Jackson included in current trade package for Dunn. If Sox get Dunn, then will try to land Astros' Brett Myers With Myers healthy[wife beating aside], he'd be an upgrade over Jackson. And would cost the same in 2011 as Jackson[has a mutual $8 mill. option]

I'll wait to see how things pan out, if Jackson stays or is part of another deal. I'm not a fan though of trading Hudson for Jackson by itself. If he goes to the Nats for Dunn, and the sox add another arm maybe.

If Hudson is involved, the "big name" would have to be a SP.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 02:19 PM) The difference is that this rumor came out of nowhere at 1 am when rosenthal broke it. And now since the am, cowley, heyman, and Buster have reported that it was close and all had the same players being exchanged. A lot of you seem like you won't like the move. So prepare yourself because I think by 10 am this is a done deal. Which prob. means the Sox and D-backs leaked it on purpose. They could have easily made calls back and forth but how did Rosey, et al, get wind of the talks? Hopefully it is just a plant and the deal doesn't come to pass.

If the sox want a high risk, high reward SP, why not go for Fausto Carmona? He'd be a Coop project, that would give the sox an upgrade now, and under a team friendly contract for a few years. Carmona's name has been out there, and not sure what it would take but something around Hudson and Viciedo wouldn't be outrageous. Why for Cle.? Hudson doesn't have the upside of Carmona but could give them consistency at a low cost.

QUOTE (Real @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) Hudson would fetch a better pitcher on the market than Jackson, hell.. we could've probably gotten Haren if we included Hudson don't you think? That's why this sounds very odd. This "deal" has come out of the blue, with Hudson supposedly only available for a bat like Dunn. Yet it gets into the media very quickly, as if both sides wanted the story to get out. Ariz. could up the price for Jackson from other teams, using the sox as an example. Chi. tells other teams that they are looking for a proven young SP similar to Jackson, yet hopefully decline, saying Hudson's worth more.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 12:55 PM) I was just getting to post something similar. I would trade Hudson for Jackson in a minute. With Peavy back next year ,the rotation is sick and it also helps out the remaining part of this year. I look at the success Cooper has had with Floyd and see a similarity in that with Jackson. Expecting Coop to fix Edwin Jackson in the last 2 months of the season, in a pennant race, is crazy, just as counting on Coop fixing an $8 mill a yr pitcher for 2011 and then watching him walk away as a FA. If Jackson was pitching like he was in 2009, maybe. I just don't see how this is a big enough upgrade for this yr, to blow our next few seasons with Hudson cheaply filling in the back on the rotation. The only thing that makes sense is Kenny using this proposed deal to advertise to other teams, "we'd like a SP and we'll use Hudson to get one". Until now, Hudson was always dangled for a bat.

Berkman shouldn't cost much in terms of talent. Taking on his salary is the big thing for getting a deal done. With Hou. kicking in salary in the Oswalt deal, they prob. don't or can't put in more cash for Berkman.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 05:01 AM) With 2 hours left before the deadline, the Chicago white sox aquired Luke Scott. With 28 minutes left before the deadline the Chicago white sox aquired Zack Greenke --- that's what I'm hoping for in the next 48 hours With the Edwin Jackson talk [hype to get other GM's to come to Kenny], I think the sox will trade for a youngish SP who has upside. Maybe not Grienke upside. But maybe a Toronto arm, Fausto Carmona.

Jackson is the type of pitcher who'd drive Ozzie crazy. All those walks, giving up big hits because he's fallen behind hitters and grooves a pitch, leading to a big inning. Sounds like Javy redux, without the nice K/ BB rate. The sox have done well because they aren't walking hitters to leadofff an inning, making the hitters work to get on, running up high pitch counts, letting the defense make the plays. Jackson is the antithesis of that. The pattern of Jackson frustrating his teams is easily shown by the LAD, TB, Det, and now AZ looking to get rid of him. If Jackson didn't cost the sox Hudson, maybe. But not at the price of Hudson. I know huddy has hit a rough spot. But he's shown in the minors the ability to not kill himself with walks and get hitters out. And make adjustments. I wouldn't even say trust Jackson to be an upgrade over Hudson for the rest of this year.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 07:55 PM) What is your end game here? Simply that adding a guy like Scott who has had success vs Twins pitching could be an additional positive, counting in all the other factors. While adding someone who hasn't faced much Twins pitching or has not had success could be a negative.

QUOTE (asmithxc @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 06:22 PM) Yes. It would. 22 at bats is not a statistically relevant sample and cannot be counted on to be representative of how Scott will hit against the Twins. Our expectations of how Scott plays against the Twins should not change if he is 0 for 22 or 9 for 22. There is far too much room for random variation within a sample that small. Our expectations, maybe. A ballplayers? It's relevant. Tell me what a ball player would say if you asked them this question: Would you rather hit off a pitcher you have dominated against or have drawn the collar against?

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 06:11 PM) Yes. The Twins caught him at the absolute wrong time (.319/.391/.606/.997 over his previous 26 games, 6/12 in the series prior vs Tampa) he was absolutely white hot when that series got going and he just kept it up for 4 more days (7/15 in the series), doesn't really mean anything in the long term. Just that Luke Scott is a streaky hitter who when hot can destroy any pitching for good stretches of time. I disagree. If a hitter gets dominated by a team, or hits well off the team, it makes a difference going forward. Esp. the same year they face that pitcher. Which for the sox adding a hitter, is this year. Hitters know who they hit well off, and may match up better vs. some pitchers based on what they throw. That said, Scott may match up better vs. the twins staff for a variety of reasons, that is heavily RHP, control, off speed type pitchers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 06:13 PM) If the Sox do trade Hudson...there's pretty much no way around having a lot of cash in the rotation next year unless we want a serious downgrade. What are the odds we'll find anyone to competently fill the 5th starter role (let alone 6th starter) for $2 million as with this year? That's a big reason I don't think the sox will trade Hudson--unless the sox received a SP to fill his spot. Freddy worked out this year very, very well. But that way of filling the 5th spot with a rehabbing vet hasn't worked well for the sox. Hudson will likely give you stability in the 5th spot for 2011, and potentially more in later years. No other SP in the sox system is even close to being ready. The sox have to add a few younger [ie cheaper], everyday starter type guys to the 25 man roster for 2011. This year it was Santos and Beckham. Next year should be Hudson, maybe Viciedo or Morel. Yet all three are "on the block". The sox can't trade everyone who's near MLB ready.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 06:08 PM) I agree, I probably over value Viciedo but in my eyes he is untouchable. I know Vizquel has a lot to do with Alexi's great season. But it can't be overlooked he started playing a lot better when Viciedo came up. Viciedo ha a shot to be a top power guy in the AL in a year or two. I don't think Viciedo has anything to do with Alexei's improved play. Vizquel yes, with his tips in the field and "mentoring" role.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 06:02 PM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/t...-type-a-status/ Fangraphs with an article about Lilly's Type A status, it was written a couple of weeks ago. Looks like he is a borderline Type A at this point. Say we do get him and he accepts, offering him arbitration and having him accept it wouldn't be the end of the world. That would be a risk the sox shouldn't take. That would mean having a lot of cash in the rotation if he accepted. I'd rather the sox sign Danks to a nice deal than spend it on Lilly for 2011.

QUOTE (asmithxc @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:53 PM) Meaningless because the fact that he has hit well in 22 at bats against Minnesota in no way indicates that he will continue to hit well against them. Would it be meaningless if he went 0 for 22 vs the sox top competitor this year? No. Success [or failure] vs. Minn. pitching is relevant if the sox added a player. I'm not saying it should be THE factor. But success or failure--even limited on a limited basis--should be considered. Esp. if we're just looking at having success this year. A hitter has a comfort factor facing a pitcher they've hit well off of. Things may change year by year. But Scott seems to have a comfort level facing Twins pitchers-whether its because they have mostly RHP or throw a lot of offspeed stuff, who knows. IMO, I'd rather have a guy who has had some success off AL pitching [twins included] than getting a NL guy [i.e. Dunn] who hasn't faced much AL pitching.

The O's would have to like Dayan as they'll have openings at both 1b and 3b, with Wigginton and Tejada both FA's after 2010. Scott is arb. eligible through 2012, and Kenny has liked him since he was with Houston in 07. If the sox could get both Guthrie and Scott, for Dayan +, [wihtout giving up Hudson, maybe Teahen would be a fit], I'd be down with that.

I could see Guthrie as an option. He's doing OK this year. Yet had sub 4.00 ERA's in his 1st 2 full seasons in the rotation, in '07 and '08. With Guthrie signed for 2011, he may be looked at to replace Freddy next yr. Freddy is likely to get a better offer than the sox somewhere else.

Makes perfect sense. Why wait for the Nats price to come down. Be proactive and get another hitter. I like the mid-rotation starter. The Sox need someone to be a solid #4, as Freddy has thrown a lot of pitches this yr.

QUOTE (asmithxc @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:05 PM) But meaningless. That Scott has hit well vs. the team the sox are battling for a playoff spot, who they play 9 more games vs, is meaningless? Certainly Scott hitting well vs. Minn. this year isn't the reason you acquire him. But it is a positive factor. I didn't see who he hit the 5 xbh's off of. But it could make a difference

If nothing else, even if the sox don't add either Matsui or Bobby, having potentially other bats available besides Dunn may help keep Hudson on the south side.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 04:55 PM) sample size Still a very positive "sample".

This would look good for the Luke Scott advocates. Scott has crushed Minn. pitching this year, 9 hits in 22 ab's, with 2 2b's, and 3 hr's, good for a .409 avg and a 1.344 OPS.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 29, 2010 -> 05:22 AM) You may be on to something actually. According to an article on chicagobreakingsports.com, KW's top scout was watching the Rockies recently. For who exactly they mention Hawpe (who I wouldn't mind). But I would be perfectly fine with adding De La Rosa or Arron Cook for a few lower tier prospects IF we traded Hudson for a Dunn or Feilder or top lefty bat. I think those moves would complement each other nicely. I also think Coop has showed he knows how to refine pitchers who throw "Junk" (Shingo-Time, Contrearas, Orlando Hudson, Javy V, and even Floyd when he first came over he couldn't find the strike zone with his curve). Good call Lemon. Link to article: http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...de-options.html The fact that scouts from Phil. SF, SD and Cincy were on hand yesterday would mean they'd be looking at a player from our roster. Jenks makes sense. Guys from Wash. and Ariz. might be for Dayan.