beck72

I can see a minor upgrade at C (think LH. Hitting guy to platoon with Phegs or Flowers) if the sox add a big bat in the OF or 3b. I think the price for a C (via trade, or signing) is far higher than an Ofer or 3b, given the market now. No way is Salty worth $10 mil. Per for 3 years, even if the sox need a C. I'd rather the sox get a defensive minded C and upgrade the offense elsewhere if no C is available

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 01:16 AM) I'll go Santiago, Beckham, and Viciedo. I think those three as well.

I think Semien will start in AAA rotating between 3b and 2b. Ready to step in should guys struggle at either spot in bigs. I too expect Beckham to be dealt. Which would leave 2b a battle between Leury Garcia, Sanchez, and Semien. Curiously enough, Garcia is younger than Semien. Texas pushed him at higher levels.

One name who would be far cheaper than Granderson is David Murphy. He had a horrible 2013 but was solid prior to that. Maybe even on a 1 year deal.

Ramirez is likely safe as the sox don't have any real options at SS who can replace his hitting and defense. Viciedo likely could be dealt. If Dayan could SLG more than .500, and improve his defense maybe hold onto him. But I don't see him or Beckham changing their free swinging, low avg. low OBP, ways.

I can only see adding Granderson as the start of a larger overhaul-one that I'd be on board with provided other moves are made. With his salary commitment of 3 years, $45 mill. which has been talked about, De Aza, Viciedo, and Beckham would likely go [as their combined salaries would be close to $10 mill.]. Other than the Mets, who would be in the same position as the Sox in losing a 2nd round pick to sign him, not many teams would be going three years. $15 mill. for him. [ideally, $12 mill. per would be about right]. I'd want the Sox to trade for a very good CF prospect/ guy who could step in right away; ie Adam Eaton/ Peter Bourjos. Granderson would be in LF. Semien, Luery Garcia or Carlos Sanchez would likely be able to cover 2b. Of course, C would have to be fixed via trade, to cover Granderson's salary.

I might have to amend my lineup. With the Sox having many options at 2b, and Gordon having had a decent 2013 [for him], I think the sox will go with an internal option at 2b and trade him. Marcus Semien, Luery Garcia and don't look now, Carlos Sanchez as options. He's lighting it up in Venezuela. http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?p...&pid=570560

FWIW, Rockies GM Geivett told Jim Bowden on nov. 3 that the Rockies 3 biggest needs were 1- STarting pitching; 2- a late inning reliever;and 3- a corner bat. The sox would seem to match up well if they thought Rosario could stick at C.

Looking at Rosario's defensive numbers, they are very similar to Phegley's. Rosario: in 910 innings- 9 PB's; 53 sb, 19 CS; 9 errors Phegley: in 516 innings- 8 PB's; 30 sb, 13 CS; 5 errors Improved his Passed balls and errors from '12 to '13. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=C

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 12:51 AM) Upside: Young, cost-controlled power hitter at premium position Downside: Trade cost / Plate disciple / Defensive liability The Rockies were talking about moving him to 1b or the OF, and pursuing Carlos Ruiz. The Sox could try to keep him at C.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Nov 11, 2013 -> 12:26 AM) Wilin Rosario is a popular name these days... The cost would be at least Santiago.

The sox best bet for CF is via trade with a young guy who would be under control for a few years. Span would be a short term rental, not worth the price in prospects. The sox should target a guy who can play good d, work counts, make contact. He'd hit near the bottom of the order. That way, De Aza could slide to LF. Whoever the sox acquire would have nothing to prove in AAA. Probably with some major league at bats.

Or someone like that.

At most, either Santiago or Quintana get moved. My thinking is Santiago. Sale isn't going anywhere unless some team foolishly gives up half their farm system.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 8, 2013 -> 07:50 PM) Maybe a Hannigan for Keppinger swap is in the works. Reds need IF depth and Hannigan is a top flight defender behind the plate and while he had a terrible year at the plate, has a pretty good track record. Defense is the most important characteristic in a pitcher to me given how this team is currently constructed. Keeping Phegley behind him would probably be beneficial in the long run to give him a chance to click on this level. Hanigan would be a nice addition. Too bad he doesn't hit lefty. I wouldn't think the cost would be too high in terms of players, prospects. If Keppinger is part of a deal, so much the better. I'd rather pick up Hanigan than overpay for Salty.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 3, 2013 -> 03:55 PM) Eaton would be a nice piece to add, with his ability to get on base. However, it appears that he is not a solution for CF: http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/08/...-adam-eaton-of/ I've seen other reports of his having decent defense. I know last year's defensive metrics weren't very good. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/6/25/3...scouting-report

LF-De Aza SS- Alexei RF-Avisail Garcia DH-Dunn 1b-Jose Abreu 3b-Gillaspie/ Keppinger [trade for Garin Cecchini with Boston, for Hector Santiago: will start in AAA, should be ready by end of year to take over at 3b] 2b-Semien [beckham traded] C-Bryan Pena/ Phegley CF-Adam Eaton [trade with Dbacks, Dayan Vicideo part of the deal, as the Dbacks need more power, have AJ Pollock in CF]

Bryan Pena is the free agent who makes the most sense. He'd be a platoon with Phegs. Flowers probably is gone.

I for one would want to wait on trading Gordon unless the Sox can get good value. I'm not sold on Semien or Sanchez being ready to start for the Sox in 2014. Maybe midseason. Johnson is a year away. Gordon's glove alone would be hard to replace. Esp. if the sox aren't getting someone who can help the sox next year. Anyone trading for him now would be buying low. Why not wait to see if he builds up his value. I'm not saying Gordon will be guy he was drafted to be. Likely not. But with the holes the sox have, they can wait one more year or 1/2 year and then trade him. Most people around here want young reclamation projects, guys with talent who have some prospect of turning it around and being major league regulars. We have one in Gordon. His bat is what needs fixing. His glove can be part of the solution moving forward. The Sox certainly haven't had the hitting coaches in the minors or bigs who have had any success working with hitters.

This all sounds very promising. Just like it did when I first heard Abreu might be a free agent. Makes too much sense not to be the highest bidder. White Sox have the money, and the big need for a bat like his. Too bad he isn't a lefty bat. But I'll take it.

A Cuban 1b/ DH has defected and may be an unrestricted free agent this year. Jose Dariel Abreu supposedly would be in line for the highest contract given to a Cuban Free agent. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/jose...-from-cuba.html The Sox would have to be one of the main teams going after him. With the need, the money, the fellow countrymen, the city. His signing would fill a key hole. Would the Sox "overpay" for him? The sox have put themselves in the position to get him very nicely. For who else is on the free agent market, I'd say the risk would be well worth it. Esp. as the sox have 1b and DH open for him, with Dunn leaving after 2014.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 08:58 PM) If you're not paying any attention to the circumstances that caused Josh Phegley to be a 25 year old repeating Charlotte then you're totally missing the boat. In a normal progression he'd have been 24 this year but he totally lost a year, and they still continued to promote him rather than having him repeat the level he would have been at before his serious medical issues started. The better organizations in baseball realize when a guy with talent had a setback that he overcame. They don't cast them aside based on the number. That's literally why we have De Aza, for example. The Marlins cast him aside for other guys and we got a very solid MLB player out of it. The sox are or have trotted out many of these types this year-Gillaspie; Flowers; Phegley; Takotte; Casper Wells; Jordan Danks. Along with a slew of pitchers. People are getting chances. It's up to them if they do anything with them. Going into next year with these same guys getting chances [if they haven't done much with the extended play] isn't a way to build a winning team.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 08:10 PM) Beckham crushed the ball at the major league level for half a season, was a high 1st round draft pick, tore up the minors, and was one of the best prospects in all of baseball. You will never hear anyone describe Phegley as anything of the sort. Major difference. Oh and Beckham also plays well above average defense at 2B so even if his bat was struggling, you got value on the other side of the ball. Viciedo was given a pretty big contract out of cuba, hit at all levels (despite being young for his age) and has shown plus offensive tools and in streaks has been a hell of a productive player. You can see the potential. Even Viciedo is to the point that next year is his last year with the Sox to prove himself. If he doesn't take big steps forward, he's done with our club and can go somewhere else. Phegley, too his credit has had to overcome a lot of issues, and that makes it harder to judge him, but he had one .700 OPS season or better in the minors entering this year and in almost a full season at AAA last year (where he was age appropriate) he put up a .680 OPS. He doesn't bring excellent defensive tools to the equation (although to his credit he's made himself a much better defensive player then anyone thought he would be coming out of college). There is nothing about his past production or to be frank his toolset which would make me want to hand him a starting job next year (unless of course he makes progress in his time at the major league level). And I'm not writing him off in 22 major league games, but he wasn't going to get near as long of a rope based upon his performance in the minors and overall tools. By the end of the year he'll likely have 50-60 games under his belt and if he's still hitting .210 with a poor approach and what looks to be a slow bat, then if I were the GM, I'd be looking for someone else to be our catcher. Tyler Flowers....dude is hitting under .200 in a career 186 major league games and has shown almost no improvements at the plate. Again, what makes me as an organization want to give him another year? Nothing. The difference in career offensive performance between Viciedo and Flowers / Phegley (at the major league level) has been pretty drastic. In FLowers case, he had some great minor league production and a better offensive tool-set (e.g., good patience and tons of power) which led me to be more willing to be patient. For all the b****ing about Viciedo, he put up a .744 OPS last year (w/25 hr's). It is scary how his power production has subsided this year though. Two weeks ago I was talking about the progress Dayan has made but boy he is having a hard time getting the most out of his tools at the plate right now. However, the 25 hr's in the majors at 23, along with the minor league production (and of course tools...he's got a quick ass bat), make me willing to be more patient with him. His upside is that of an above average offensive player. I don't see Josh Phegley's upside of being an above average starting catcher. His upside is an average to slightly below average all around catcher (at best...if he completely maximized his skill-set, which is rare) and his floor is a whole lot worse, imo. His most likely scenario (in my opinion) is that of a backup catcher / career AAAA er. Well said! There isn't much to disagree with here for me. Few position players have this chance to prove themselves at the major league level for such an extended period of time like Gillaspie, Flowers, Phegley, Jordan Danks this year with the sox. Even Takotte and Casper Wells have had more chances than they should have. Guys like Viciedo and Beckham are everyday players. If their futures are with the sox, they have to produce this year and next. Beckham's stellar defense has given him the extra time to work things out at the plate. Viciedo needs to hit for power and a decent avg. or his value for the sox at least, is minimal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 08:48 PM) PHEGLEY WALKED! My thoughts exactly!

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Aug 10, 2013 -> 05:36 PM) I don't think it's a good idea to sign a top-shelf free agent until we know what holes we have to fill. I advocate nothing longer than a two-year deal this offseason. After this disaster of a season, the sox should know what holes they have to fill. (IMO, Catcher should be a priority; 3b, and 1b). If the Sox want to sign a free agent, it'll have to be more than 2 years. When you advocate for Ethier, though, that's a commitment of 4 years. Say LA somehow throws in half his $71.5 mill. salary he's owed. That's $35+ mill. Left the sox are on the hook for. Whether that's money spent on bad contracts, or free agents, most deals will be longer than 2 years. I agree the sox should look at some bad contracts. But that's probably riskier expecting those guys to live up to a bad contract/ improve poor performance, than it is to have a free agent who has been performing well, to suddenly suck for the next three years. That's part of the risk the sox have to make, being in this position of having poor offensive talent. They can't just spend their way out of this mess.