beck72

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 04:55 AM) Sure they do. Jason Castro is not some untouchable young player. It appears Houston wants Max Stassi as their future anyway, so that already lowers their leverage power. Are you telling me if the Sox offered Erik Johnson, Tim Anderson, Courtney Hawkins, Marcus Semien, Daniel Webb, and Matt Davidson that the Astros would say no? You'd part with these guys for Castro? Seriously. My point is the sox don't have the depth in prospects to acquire a guy like Castro now. Not after trading Reed and Santiago, as the sox expect the young guys to fill in. The farm system is improving but not at the pace to trade away key pieces for a potential 2 year guy in Castro.

QUOTE (Paulstar @ Jan 7, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) Or some of the young prospects don't do well and lose some value. I believe its all about self scouting and trading the players you firmly believe won't be good and keeping the ones you do believe will be good. Not hoarding fringe prospects just because you don't have a lot. The sox don't have the top prospects that would take to land Castro, esp. If you take Q out. Depending on who develops after this year, the Sox might. IMO, the sox aren't in the position to acquire a guy like Castro right now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2014 -> 10:34 PM) And if pitchers from the minors step up this year...we could be in a much better position to continue trading pitching next offseason than we are right now. We might also have a better idea of whether we have extra moveable guys in the infield. Exactly. The Sox don't have extra talent to trade right now for a C, besides De Aza. But after another season in the minors, some guys may step up, and improve their value. I was thinking infield guys as well. But also, OF guys-Thompson, Hawkins, etc. Not to mention Viciedo, if he improves his numbers from 2013. I still think his free swinging ways are a big part of what the sox want to get away from. But could have decent value to other teams.

The price for Castro is likely too high. The sox have filled a lot without hurting the big league club. Quintana is way too high a price for the sox to pay, though it would be fair for Houston. If the Sox didn't think Salty was worth the $7 mill. A year, they won't be trading Q. Q on the open market is worth more than that. And the sox should add another SP, not give up a #2. Or the minor league depth the sox need in guys like Beck. Help at C should come from a defense first guy this year, if they can't add a decent bat. Trading De Aza or Viciedo should get an upgrade over Flowers/ phegley.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 24, 2013 -> 05:26 AM) Can't stick him in the bullpen until you know whether he can cut it at as a starter. Has excelled at every level starting in his career so far Except in the bigs. He's got to get major league hitters out one way or another in 2014. The most likely open spot is from the pen. He can always be stretched out if need be, ala Santiago. Seeing how he's coming off TJ surgery, throwing less innings from the pen makes sense.

By adding key young players such as Davidson to go with Eaton, Abreu and Avisail, it makes guys like Alexei, Beckham, and DeAza expendable. Alexei though is much harder to replace than Gordon or DeAza.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 16, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) Rob Brantly put up .273/.328/.384/.712 during his career in the minors. Frankly, I don't want the Sox adding any more young catchers unless it's an impact type talent. Neither Brantley nor Lobaton nor Jaso fit that description. Out of curiosity, who would you have the Sox realistically target? Esp. If you want an impact C. Any impact guy would weaken the sox farm dramatically. With 3b taken care of, the sox can get by with a defensive guy at C. Though preferably a LH one.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 15, 2013 -> 04:20 PM) I actually had him in mind when I kept hearing Lobaton and Jaso's name. I think he would be a great addition. I'd do Rienzo straight up for him. I saw Lobaton's splits vs RHP-horrible. Rienzo would probably be too much in terms of cost to acquire him-even if I'm not a fan of his.

If the Sox pick up a decent LH hitting vet, I wouldn't mind it. But the cost in terms of talent would be pretty high via trade. I thought they should have targeted a free agent, like Bryan Pena. But I liked the Nieto pick up. Yet Brantly is only 4 months older than Adrian Nieto, and has at least played in the bigs. Nieto hasn't played above high A.

With few options out there to help the catching situation, one may exist in Marlins C Rob Brantly. He was their opening day starter in 2013, after hitting well in 113 AB's to end 2012. Yet they rushed him, and was absolutely Phegley-Flowers esqe in 243 ab's last year [hitting .211/.263/.265] and he ended up the year in AAA. Still, the last two years he hit .262/.322/.360 vs. RHP. in the bigs. With the Marlins signing Saltamalacchia for 3 years, Brantly is scheduled to start 2014 in AAA. Baseball Prospect Nation said this about him, having Brantly as the Marlins #7 prospect heading into 2013. "Brantly is a player I have liked since his days in the Tigers organization. He has improved dramatically behind the plate, showing average potential as a defender. His arm is an above-average tool and while he still boxes some pitches, his receiving now borders on average grades as well. Brantly augments his solid defense with an excellent offensive approach, good contact ability and the overall potential to hit .280 with plenty of gap power." http://baseballprospectnation.com/2013/01/...p-15-prospects/ http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...&position=C Nothing big. But getting a guy with upside, is 24 years old, who can platoon with Flowers or Phegley, at a reasonable cost in terms of what it would take to acquire him, may be a reasonable route to take.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 13, 2013 -> 07:39 PM) I believe Bucket, or maybe Rock, said in the Winter Meetings thread something about Ackley being talked about as an option at 3B. Edit: Found it in Viciedo to Mariners thread - QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Dec 10, 2013 -> 05:07 PM) * Now that either De Aza or Viciedo are going to be possibly dealt, do you guys think we can get a respectable deal for Viciedo from Seattle who could use an outfield power bat? Timely post. If you like Ackley (shifting to 3B for the Sox) that's recently been proposed by Jack Z. I believe Rick countered with Franklin. Stay tuned. I took it to mean that Hahn wanted Franklin not Ackley.

A lot is riding on Eaton to hit at the top of the lineup. If he gets injured, struggles, etc, having De Aza around would certainly be a decent plan B. My bet is De Aza stays, Viciedo and maybe Beckham get dealt.

Dayan should be able to net the sox a young, lefty hitting C. Who probably has similar question marks as Dayan about his long term ceiling. But then again, so should De Aza. IMO, De Aza is more valuable than Dayan for the Sox-Esp. in LF. Dayan reminds me of Juan Uribe. That free swinging hacking is what the sox are trying to get rid of. My bet is Dayan is the one dealt.

Eaton is a nice pick up. Thought the sox could have gotten another prospect to go with Eaton for hector but oh well.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2013 -> 12:44 PM) The problem with this line of thinking is that IMO the free agent market right now is where players are overpriced while it seems like the trade market is where value is. So, you're paying a premium price while signing the guy on the FA market and yet when you try to trade your guys, you don't get an over-valued return on them. I think we're on the same page. If the sox could have signed Choo to a reasonable deal, (and no way they can with what other guys have gotten this year) it made sense to go for him. A few other teams will overpay for Choo, far more than what the sox should or would pay. The trade route will be the only way to fix the offense. The sox will have to pick up young guys who may struggle initially, in CF, C. Yet could have high ceilings.

I like Gardner but only if they could work out an extension. Not likely.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Dec 8, 2013 -> 02:53 AM) Does anyone think we could be total dark horse to go after Choo? There's maybe no other hitter who's talents most perfectly hit what we need and he's better than any OF free agent next year. It's free agency, so it's an ultimately an overpay, but the salary obligations after this year are virtually nothing. Plus, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Angels don't figure to be in on the bidding. Consider also that we don't have a legit outfielder who has shown they can even hit at AA. I don't think anyone here would complain about Choo's defense in center compared to De Aza, and as soon as next year (or further down the road) he can move to left with Tank going to DH. He's only 30 (2 years younger than Granderson) and seems like the kind of guy who's offensive value isn't going to totally deteriorate as he can be moved along the defensive spectrum from CF to corner to DH if need be. I'd agree. If the contract was like 5 years, $90 mil. But Choo should get a bigger deal than that. The thing I like about getting Choo is it would allow the sox to then make multiple deals to fill holes. And have the sox bring along young guys without the added pressure of hitting at the top of the lineup. De Aza or Tank could net something productive. Dunn could be unloaded. The sox could get a young SS, C, or OFer by trading a SP. Still, I don't see it happening with the market way over priced.

Makes sense. With all the garbage catchers out there, giving Flowers another shot, at least as part of a RH platoon, isn't the worst thing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 06:08 PM) Flowers is out of options. Then I'd be really surprised if Phegs isn't in AAA to start the year, with Flowers on the big league roster.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 09:09 PM) No rebuilds don't always work and neither does relying on the FA market. The affordable ( from the Sox perspective) FA market is weak and won't make the Sox contenders. Couple that with the Sox not having so little to offer in a trade makes putting a 14 competitive team that much more difficult. A weak farm is exactly why the Sox need to re-invest in the first place. I agree trying to rebuild on the fly but Grandy isn't the answer either. The Sox just aren't close snuff for Grandy to push them to the point of contention. Plus Detroit, Cleveland and Kc are much better than what Granderson would help the Sox become. Really? Investing in Intl FA and a weak minor system isn't a rebuid when there isn't much talent available like you said and I agree with? Is there that big a difference between rebuilding and retooling considering the Sox current situation? Sounds more a play on words than anything else. I agree with what you say but Avi is still developing and Abreu is a huge unknown at this point so we really are rebuilding/ retooling aren't we? Not like these guys are proven or anything even tho I do like promising future these guys bring to the Sox. It's not a play on words. Rebuilding is trading guys like Chris Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana for multiple pieces, gutting payroll, and going through multiple losing seasons on purpose. The Sox, based on what Hahn is saying and doing with the Abreu signing, are still trying to win next year. Most people Call that retooling. I agree the sox are still trying to win in 2014.

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) Are we ready to call quits on Flowers, and Phegley, already? Wasn't Flowers playing hurt all season? And Phegley has a small sample size and has adjusted in all levels in the minors. Seeing how the sox have real other options at C, it makes sense (as long as both guys have options left in the minors) to have one be part of a platoon with a lefty, and the other in AAA. Even if the sox added a decent LH bat, keeping both around at low salaries on the bench or in the minors is decent insurance.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 06:04 PM) You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings. Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis! There isn't unlimited amount of money to spend solely on picks and INTL signings with the cap in place. With the Abreu signing, it's a question of what players to add around him and Avasail. Both righty bats. Adding guys who can hit near the top of the order, hit lefty, and aren't weak in the field are logical next steps. Plus, at a position that doesn't block a guy like Semien or Micah Johnson-who aren't likely to help until the end of 2014 if then. Hahn has a plan. It's not luck that Abreu was signed before adding a free agent.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 06:50 PM) Couldn't agree more. I understand how its hard for some to accept when you want your favorite team to win but the truth is that this rebuild has been coming for a few years now giving the aging players and weak talent in the upper minor leagues. I'm no genius but for me this was easy to see coming and completly necessary. This board may or may not push for a rebuild. But Rick Hahn isn't. Rebuilding is playing all young guys, gutting payroll completely, trading anyone of value, esp. a guy like Sale, and going through another season like last. Hahn isn't advocating that. That said, adding a vet like Curtis on a cheaper deal nearer $10 mil. who could help the sox win while adding key young guys like Avasail, Abreu, and at least one other via trade of a starting pitcher, does make sense. That would seem to fit in with Hahns vision of retooling rather than rebuilding.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 06:41 PM) Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible. All you have to do is listen to Hahn. The sox are trying to compete in 2014. They are not pulling a Cubs or Astros, going with young guys and dropping payroll to next to nothing. Whether you agree or not, the sox think they can contend with the pitching they have. To Do that, contend, they need a mixture of vets and young guys. Seeing how the sox system has OFers that are at least 2 years away from helping in the bigs, if that, they could use a guy like Granderson. De Aza is getting to be expensive. Dayan is part of the problem, low OBP, low baseball IQ. He'd take off the pressure on young guys like Semien, Micah Johnson who are probably a year away. If Granderson could give the Sox his career numbers, .261/ .340/ .488, be it in CF or LF, he could make a difference. That isn't to say this is the only move to left to make. But trading Santiago isn't the cure all either. I'd like the sox to add another young hitter as well with a trade of a Starting pitcher. Adding a lefty bat near big league ready such as Adam Eaton from AZ, Jon Pederson from LA, or Cecchini from Boston.

Even though the sox would lose a 2nd round pick for signing him, Granderson makes too much sense not to go after. Provided he can be had on a 3 year deal, for around $10 mil. Per. His presence and proven production would help the sox add young guys at the bottom of the lineup in 2014 and the next few years. And would provide a big lefty bat to go with Avasail and Abreu on the right. Given how quiet the Granderson market seems to be, few teams seem willing to add Curtis because it will cost them a 1st round pick.