caulfield12

QUOTE (Dunt @ May 11, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) I seem to remember a lot of people saying the same exact thing about his last start against the Rangers just a mere few weeks ago 22-1 when Sale/Quintana/Latos/Gonzalez start. He can't lose with those odds!!! Alert Las Vegas. Obviously, he was great to start the season and then he hit a speed bump the last couple of outings but still kept the team in the game, which is all you can ever expect out of a 5 starter. From that perspective, he could go 2-7 his next 9 and the team would still be perfectly fine if Rodon simply did his job as expected. And, as mentioned, we've actually seen an uptick in his velocity...which is encouraging. With the way last year ended, there were a lot of assumptions that Rodon was going to be a 13-15 game winner this year. That still might happen, and he SHOULD be 2-4, but Jose Quintana knows all about just being contented with 9 wins despite pitching his --- off.

There's no reason to overreact simply because Latos isn't going to be an undefeated pitcher and few would be shocked/surprised if we lost today. After all, we were 8-2, lost 3 games in a row and played like crap and at worst we're only talking lose twice in a row when we have a 5/7 game lead in the division. We also played pretty lousy against the Orioles and I want to say the Rays. You never really expect to take 2/3 in Texas, and you're usually happy with one. Usually being the key word.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 11, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) Wtf when did he go on the dl? That makes more sense to me then. I will say then that the team put rv in a bad spot. Carroll never should have been the guy called up. Longman is not needed in todays mlb. I was out hiking all day yesterday was he put on the dl prior to the game? Well, with Rodon, Latos and Gonzalez...it seems there might be plenty of opportunities in the near future. For a couple of innings, it was looking like Rodon wouldn't make it to the 5th or even the 4th. The problem in this case is your closer was overextended the night before, Jones and Putnam both pitched (I think it was 22 pitches), Duke/Albers/Putnam were the best options in that particular situation (overall)....and clearly Jennings wasn't going out for multiple innings two consecutive nights. In the last week, Albers has seen his stuff lose its earlier crispness.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 11, 2016 -> 07:39 AM) Play the game and get the hell out of there. Thank god there's an off day tomorrow, and maybe a rain out Friday night. This pen needs a break. LOL. That's about how most probably feel, like the Orioles series around the time of riots. If you look at it, 4-2 against the Rangers still SEEMS like a good record, but it could have been better...those types of games sting more. Maybe it's because we had our first chance to get to 14 games over .500 and then you're back to 12 staring at another loss and a weekend in NY and possibly just being 10 games over when we should have had a much more comfortable margin in the division. Those two game swings happen every single day of the season in the standings, but this one hurts a lot more because losing a 5 run lead in the last couple of innings is just such a rare occurrence for an MLB team, even down its top two relievers.

This is where it would be nice to have the Cubs' farm system, lol. We could just target nearly ANYONE, Braun, Trout, Harper, doesn't matter, pretty much nobody would be off-limits completely. Granted, Soler's not worth very much at the moment, Baez might be needed instead of using him as trade bait, but they have enough pieces remaining to make similar trades to what KC did last year adding Cueto and Zobrist at the deadline. One would think the Yankees would prioritize moving Andrew Miller if they fall out of contention in July...keeping Betances and Chapman to build around for next year. What would the Sox be willing to give up for him, though? It's going to be a pretty damned steep price. Brian Cashman still remembers Contreras and Quintana getting away...although in fairness, we gave them Swisher for nothing at least.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 10, 2016 -> 05:30 PM) Gardner would rotate in with Jackson in CF, and with Melky in LF. On days you want to sit Avi against a RHP, Melky can DH with Gardner in LF. Other days you may want to sit Jackson so Gardner plays CF. When Eaton needs a rest Jackson can play RF with Gardner in CF. On days he's not starting he's available as a LHPH, a PR, or a defensive replacement for Melky. There is plenty of playing time for all involved. And if Avi proves to be just on his usual hot streak and goes back to his old ways, you can rotate your three outfiekders and Gardner at DH to keep everyone fresh. The problem is they're much more likely to want to trade Beltran or Ellsbury than Gardner or Chapman. When's the last time the Yankees gave up on a season and had a firesale? Theoretically, it could work...but, once again, I think the asking price for a player like Gardner's going to be higher than Hahn is willing to pay. If he wouldn't give up the draft pick that theoretically has the value of a Spencer Adams type of prospect instead of trading Shark at the end of July, he's not going to turn around and deal his second best pitching prospect (a huge future area of need) for an expensive and aging Gardner.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 11, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) Sample size. Still had a big lead. Albers pitched the previous night, I am sure Robin was hoping not to have to use him. If there are pitchers who should not ever be used on a roster, that isn't the manager's problem. But I'm sure Duke would have had no problem with Mazara, because hindsight is awesome. The move that wasn't made would have easily worked out 100% of the time. Go back to the gamethread. Fathom called it "inexplicable" if I remember correctly...that was before the count was 2-2 on Mazara I'm sure. Yes, Duke has been pretty lousy in high leverage situations against almost every lefty recently. Big Papi, Moreland and Chris Davis come to mind just from the past week alone. But you still go with statistical probability. You paid Duke $5 million per year for these specific situations, not Carroll. Everyone who has followed Sox baseball the past 30 years knows that no lead in Texas is ever safe, unless it's 7+. Duke, Putnam and Albers in no particular order were the priority relievers over Carroll once the situation started becoming a "clear and present danger."

Chapman is probably going to be the most prized reliever on the market...and that's going to mean the Yankees can extract maximum value for him. There's no way anything less than either Anderson or Fulmer gets it done. Adams+ alone won't do it. These situations where money doesn't matter to the trading team but prospects do will not end up going the way of the Sox. Our one advantage here is being able to take on payroll for underperforming or expensive assets.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 11, 2016 -> 06:49 AM) Robin took Soxtalk's advice and used Matt Albers in a high leverage situation. It didn't work out, so Robin is back to being an idiot. He should have used his gassed relievers because last night was a must win. Now the playoff hopes really take a hit. With Latos going today, another nugget is it will be a miracle if he holds them to single digits. So basically the White Sox are screwed. Mazara hits lefties at 630 and righties at 895. Duke should have been used there...once he got to Moreland, it was already a brush fire.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 11, 2016 -> 06:49 AM) Robin took Soxtalk's advice and used Matt Albers in a high leverage situation. It didn't work out, so Robin is back to being an idiot. He should have used his gassed relievers because last night was a must win. Now the playoff hopes really take a hit. With Latos going today, another nugget is it will be a miracle if he holds them to single digits. So basically the White Sox are screwed. If someone could retire Ian Desmond, that might help...

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ May 11, 2016 -> 04:58 AM) I went to bed when the Sox were winning 10-5. How in the world did they give up SEVEN runs in the 8th inning? Holy hell. Thankfully it's just one game, some of you need to realize that they're still leading the division by 7 games. While it's disappointing, losses like these happen sometimes. Unless you're discounting the Indians, it's 5 games over CLE and 7 over the Royals and Tigers. And it seems like every pundit/prognosticator/analyst is arguing the Indians are the REAL threat to the White Sox. In the end, we're going to play all three of those teams a TON in the next 6 weeks, so the best team will be apparent then. As far as everyone saying relax, don't panic, don't worry...sure, that's fine...we heard that same thing in 2012 and 2010 and 2008 and 2006 and 2004 and 2003. Just once did we hold the lead, in 2008 over the Twins, and that was by the very thinnest of margins possible. Nobody's saying the sky is falling...we saw a sense of urgency with Danks to move on, hopefully we see the same attitude from the front office regarding Sands and Carroll.

We can rationalize it by saying we've beaten the Rangers six games in a row...that we didn't really have a right to win the first game (despite two blown saves), everything evens out over 162, etc. Lip's point was that you can't give away a 5 run lead (especially on the road in Texas, where no lead is safe) with your worst pitcher on the mound...leaving him out there 1-2 batters too long. Sure, you can let Carroll start the inning, but once you get to Mazara and have a RHP/LHB match-up, you have to pull the plug and use Duke/Albers/Putnam. Mazara was hitting lefties at a 630 OPS clip and righties at 895. It's just logic to go with Duke there, THEN Albers or Putnam. And in the end, we burned even more of the pen than if we had just gone to Albers/Duke in the first place because all of those pitches for Albers were high-stress pitches...and he looked pretty fatigued, so if the goal was to preserve the bullpen in defeat, we didn't really manage to do that effectively, either.

Well, that and saying she wanted to shut down the coal business, which just so happens to still be the #1 job provider in WV. Obama was destroyed by Clinton there in 2008...fwiw. As far as the delegate race, if Bernie was within 100 of Hilary's lead (not counting the superdelegates), he'd have a point....but coming into last night it was closer to 300. The Dems have the superdelegate system, and they're almost all supporting Clinton. Whether that's "fair or not" is a question for another time and place. His main argument is that he's polling better against Trump in a general election match-up than Hilary...but Kasich is polling better than Trump against Hillary too, so it's pretty meaningless at this point.

Last MLB team to be tagged with a bullpen loss this year. First time the Sox lost a game when leading after 7 innings.

Yeah, you wonder how long Eaton can play at this pace without breaking down as well... Of course, the alternative of putting Sands or Avisail Garcia out in LF or RF is too scary to consider. Part of the reason they're now missing JB Shuck, at least he could competently play the OF, pinch run, decent PHer, etc.

Not sure about Webb...seems his control has been so spotty almost everyone has given up on him. He also has never shown the consistent ability to maintain his once-reported upper 90's fastball. We also had Kahnle, heck Michael Ynoa and Eric Johnson for that matter.

Yeah, Albers (I think) has given up runs in three consecutive appearances. We knew he wasn't THAT good (the scoreless streak) but he's probably been pushed too hard so early in the season...it's not like he is in that great shape to begin with. It does expose that area of weakness that most teams have, which is the bullpen second unit. Petricka has had stretches the last two years where you wonder why he's so erratic because his stuff can be closer-esque at times...and Putnam was absolutely a pleasant surprise like Albers (this year) in 2014 when that forkball/splitter was almost unhittable there for a stretch. Someone said that Putnam was also warmed up and ready to go...following on ESPN Game Cast so I'm not sure if that is/was true or not. (Of course, it's easy to argue that Ventura should have used Putnam as well). I also think Rua was something like 1/11 with RISP and hitting .160 against RHP, so statistically it was the right move to have Albers or Putnam there (assuming Jones and Robertson weren't available). The other reason to use Putnam is simply the fact that he's much more likely to keep the ball on the ground and not allow the Rangers to elevate...as the ONE thing you can't have happen there is the home run. “We’ve been using these guys a lot, and this is a game that you tip the cap to (the Rangers),” Sox manager Robin Ventura said. “They didn’t give up. … Just an off night, bullpen-wise. That’s going to happen in a long season. As far as faith in these guys going forward, we have all that for them. Tonight is just a tough night.” www.chicagotribune.com/sports Everyone is VERY lucky. They can at least go to sleep and not have to stew about this game all day, haha. 2:30 in the afternoon here. Maybe SLIGHTLY worse if you're the poster who woke up in Ireland while this whole situation was transpiring in the late innings. I still remember walking around the beach in Thailand all day after that stupid game in 2008 that Carlos Gomez and the Twins single-handedly beat the White Sox and Jenks late in the season...just couldn't let it go and think about something else the whole day long.

Obviously that game and the way it ended was terrible, you just had a notion after Duke gave up the hit against Moreland up the middle that it was possible to lose the lead, and all along had that uneasy feeling that the game was never ever over, not in Texas, not even when it was 10-5 or 11-6. Ventura's defenders will state the obvious. Major league relievers should be able to preserve a five run lead with only six outs to go. That said, he was asleep at the wheel a bit because he didn't have Putnam or Albers ready to go at the start of the 8th inning...and, if they were both capable of warming up and pitching, there's just no reason to put the game in the hands of Carroll after he got out of the previous inning. You certainly put in Albers after the first two reached, or Duke to face Mazara. You can make an argument he only gets ONE hitter because of where they were, in the heart of the Rangers' line-up. Loading the bases there, especially walking Mazara...that's what set the whole thing in motion, regardless of any strike call against Andrus going against them. Looking forward, have an absolutely killer schedule coming up until we play the Twins on June 28th. 43 games against good/solid/playoff teams, with the "easiest" ones being the Astros for three. My personal feeling is that this team is similar to the 2008/2010/2012 teams, that we SHOULD be a playoff team after having taken a rather significant (statistically) six game lead in the division by the middle of May. We are clearly a pitcher and hitter away from being a very good or great team...but you don't have to be great to make the playoffs. The 2005/06, 03-04 (before injuries) and 2000 teams were stronger IMO. So it will be interesting to see which way this goes...the doubters/skeptics now have some new evidence against Ventura, despite how "invisible" he has been this season in terms of tactical decisions/blunders. We have sprung leaks in the starting rotation (Rodon and Latos looking vulnerable) and the entire bullpen, it feels like we don't have a single reliever at the moment that we can rely on 100%. Before, it was Albers and Robertson and Nate Jones were all very good, but all three of those guys have been shaky in the last week or two. That happens over the course of a season. The offense, defense (outfield the last two nights) will ebb and flow. We weren't the best pitching staff in the AL, and we certainly weren't one of the worst offenses. It has been really fun to see the offense firing on all cylinders, however...something that didn't happen much except for a stretch in 2014 when Abreu was murdering the ball. After all this time, 4+ years, I still can't say that I feel 100% confident in Ventura as a manager. Not because of tonight, but because of everything that happened at the end of 2012 and then the last three years. We know that Sale/Quintana/Latos/Gonzalez won't continue their 22-1 pace, and Rodon/Danks their 1-10 clip...it's just a statistical impossibility, something has to give, probably tomorrow with Latos facing Hamels. If Ventura can get through these next 43 games at 22-21 (45-32), I'll buy the argument that he deserves strong consideration for an extension. If we start to founder and fall back into a three or four way race with the Indians, Royals and Tigers, then my confidence level about winning the division in August and September barring some divine intervention from Rick Hahn/KW/JR will be down...forced to confront this franchise's historical struggles to close out seasons and push through into the post-season. But thankfully, the Indians, Royals and Tigers are all blessed (or cursed) with major flaws. So there's that, above all else. Nevertheless, we need to go out there soon and prove we can hold our own against those three and not become "mental midgets" again.

1-2-3. Don't think any team can recover from that kind of shock.

How can you be 22-1 in starts by four guys and 1-10 in starts by the other two? I'm sure THAT has never happened to start off a season in the history of the major leagues.

How can you be 22-1 in starts by four guys and 1-10 in starts by the other two? I'm sure THAT has never happened to start off a season in the history of the major leagues.

If the Rangers don't score 10 runs against Latos tmrw, it will be a minor miracle. Harrelson has to be super pissed now.

Did that really just happen??? Waiting for Greg's "fireable" offense comments, lol. I know, I know...it was Jackson's fault, and Carroll's fault, and Albers' fault, not Ventura's. NEVER EVER QUIT, perfect motto for the Rangers...this SUCKS.

Did that really just happen??? Waiting for Greg's "fireable" offense comments, lol. I know, I know...it was Jackson's fault, and Carroll's fault, and Albers' fault, not Ventura's. NEVER EVER QUIT, perfect motto for the Rangers...this SUCKS.

You've got to be freaking kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1/11 with RISP and a .160 average against RHP before that homer. This just sucks.