caulfield12

In all fairness, it's a testament (negatively) to the state of our minor league system that Dylan Axelrod was more or less the best starting option for the first 2-3 months last year. That said, the White Sox minor league system produced a plethora of relievers the season before, as well as Quintana and Santiago (at least smart scouting in the case of Quintana)...and then Johnson last year, so that's 3 quality starters in 2 seasons that are offsetting the poor allocation of resources into Dunn/Danks/Keppinger. And the depth with Rienzo/Surkamp/Paulino and eventually Beck means they can allocate those $10-15 million they were going to spend on a pitcher somewhere else, not to mention the savings created from likely trading Alexei Ramirez and in all probability DeAza and/or Beckham as well.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Good job, insult posters using words we deem so offensive that we've filtered them, and then break the word up so that we can see it even clearer. You're an extremist. The fact of the matter is a top 3 pick next year would be a devastating blow for this franchise when all is said and done. It would mean that nobody has progressed, there were severe injuries in the pitching staff, and the coaching staff has shown pure incompetence and that this offseason was a complete and utter failure. Yes, in a vacuum, if I had to choose between the 3rd pick and the 16th pick, I'd take the 3rd pick, but this isn't a vacuum, and that pick depends upon how well the team has played, and if they end up with the 3rd pick, then it sets the organization back about 5 years because they need to scrap everything and start over. They're likely going to end up with a pick in the 8-14 range. That's a perfectly good draft pick where there will be a large number of very, very talented players available. That's a success. What is not a success is when the team is decrepit, the minor league system is rather barren, and the team finishes about 84-78. That's when it's bad. I would take 74-78 wins in a heartbeat if Sale/Quintana stayed 100% healthy/productive, EJ looked good, all the young hitters progressed AND Courtney Hawkins and Anderson looked legitimately like future superstars in the making.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 08:53 AM) You seem to have a fetish that some others have on this board, and actually like to watch guys like Axelrod take the mound to get hammered time and time again before you are fairly certain they shouldn't be in a playoff contender's starting rotation. As I stated, there will be plenty of starts to go around if pitchers show they are worthy. Paulino has never pitched 140 innings in a season and is coming off a missed season. It is very unlikely he can or will make 30 starts. Rienzo has to prove he belongs. He hasn't yet. A stint in the bullpen or some more time at Charlotte could be good for him. Others will go down with injuries or if everyone is pitching well another team will need someone, because it pretty much happens every year except once . In 2005 the White Sox only used 6 starters. Will Jimenez make the White Sox a playoff contender next year? How do you plan to replace Dunn/LH bat, catcher, SS/2B (we can assume Semien for one of those positions, probably, but can't be sure as he wasn't even on most top Sox prospect lists coming into 2013) and any weaknesses at the back end of the bullpen?

Edwin Jackson

Edwin Jackson

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 05:16 PM) Joan Cusack's character I think. She's basically Euphegenia Doubtfire now...she needs a love interest (other than Frank) too.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) Shameless has been slower this season, but I dont think it is nearly as drastic as Caulfield is making it out to be. I still love whats going on with Lip, and you can see Fiona about to f*** things up bigtime. And come on, Veronica and Kevin are gold everytime they are on screen That was a good scene with Kevin lecturing Lip in the bar...despite everything going wrong for him with the asbestos and business license and back taxes subplot. Maybe you're right...the difference is that I've been watching all these shows over the span of 2-3-4 days, so my experience is going to be a bit skewed compared to watching it on a weekly basis over a number of years. Perhaps I'm more attuned to the ebb and flow of the show watching it so quickly. I did the same thing with Sons of Anarchy, and I'm sure I would have enjoyed that had I been a "regular weekly viewer" for 5 years. Or even Breaking Bad, although I loved that show right away and even was watching the "Talking Bad" companion recap episodes that went with it. Honestly, when I started watching Shameless, it was a bit hard to get into it in the very beginning and then it progressively pulled you in. Same thing with the 2nd season of Person of Interest and Workaholics as well, granted, all completely different shows. For example, The Business Trip episode of Workaholics, I was laughing harder probably than I have for weeks, although a lot of that show's hit and miss for me compared to the take of others.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) Do you think the market might drive players back to their current teams for something similar to their QO? Kendrys, for instance, would look good for us NEXT year if Tank doesn't improve at the plate. Maybe...but then you're talking about adding some 30+ (and injury-prone in this case) players to the core, it's going to have to be the perfect situation in terms of years and numbers to make it work. One of those situations like a Jermaine Dye where the player's coming off an injury or not at the peak of their value (and opposite of the Dunn contract, in other words). Victor Martinez was also mentioned as a possibility.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 08:29 PM) We can't become the Astros or Cubs. If that happens, our attendance will look like the A's. Or the Indians...or the Rays. Although in terms of blipping up when there's a winning team, we have some similarities with KC and Balt too.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) If the White Sox are bad enough to lose 90 games, the development is not going to be satifactory. A Sale or Quintana injury and that's easily projectable as a loss total...or a complete bullpen meltdown like 2007 or when we started with Matt Thornton in that role in April could do it. Snowball effect. That doesn't mean the young offensive players haven't made sufficient progress, necessarily.

Dunn was supposed to be the final piece in that moment, just like Javy in 2006 or Cabrera/Swisher pre-2008. Logical enough moves at the time...although obviously none of them worked out. We're a catcher, legit closer, DH/LH power bat and probably one more starting pitcher away from being competitive. Completely different situations. There's a very good possibility we'll change our LF, SS and 2B in the next 12-16 months as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) I think winning is part of player development. Not necessarily the division, but losing 90 games shows your players aren't developing very well. If Semien, A. Garcia, Eaton, Davidson and Viciedo all have good (or stronger than expected seasons), it's still possible we could lose 90 and it would be a satisfactory season, as long as there's not a major injury to the pitching staff. That would also likely mean Ramirez, Beckham, Dunn, DeAza and the catcher's spot are disappointing (along with Danks and the closer's role), which isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, either.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) Well you sure have changed. When you wanted Salty for $44 million, you said that wasn't a lot of money in today's game. It isn't a huge amount of money if you get a franchise catcher who's in his prime. Salty isn't quite that player, though, just like a #3/4 starter isn't their biggest need AT THE CURRENT MOMENT. Cheap is relative. We were willing to pay Tanaka over $125 million, probably a bigger gamble than Abreu's deal, which was already the biggest free agent signing in White Sox history. The Abreu deal could be the biggest bargain this side of Sale/Quintana, or it could end up being the first noose tied around Hahn's neck.

QUOTE (The Gooch @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 10:16 AM) I said the same thing when they killed Jimmy Darmody from Boardwalk. Jimmy/Steve wasn't the main character, but his character made the show much more interesting. After Darmondy died, Boardwalk was good, but never quite as good. It's probably a good thing they never showed Jimmy/Steve dying, as if the show continues in this direction they could possibly bring him back. Ofcourse by that time, Fiona will have to be in a serious relationship with someone else she isn't already cheating on to make it more interesting. Logically, one would hope she would be evolving into more of a responsible career...sort of like the shot she had at "managing" the club for one night, and now the sales promotion...where she meets someone who is able to help her out in her career instead of sabotage it, a mentor type. Her current boyfriend might be the most boring one in the history of television, which is intentional to play off the brother...but they've got to come up with someone who fans of the show are rooting for and pit him against Jimmy/Steve. I'd almost rather send her back to the neighborhood policeman.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) I think Santiago was part of the core. Plus stuff, cheap left-hander. Since when you were a big fan of Santiago? Now that he's no longer a part of the organization?

Not necessarily. A lot depends on where Bogaerts ends up. They already have Nava, Gomes, Victorino and Jackie Bradley. For the moment, he's the starting SS and could be moved to 3B, but he could also end up in LF (let's say they brought Drew back at mid-season, for example). Obviously, they have a big hole to fill in CF, but Bradley has a ton of ability and they'll give him half the season to prove himself (see Brian Anderson in 2006).

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 10:53 AM) Right. Just keep the talent flowing in. At this stage of the process, young talent is ideal. The Mitchell ankle injury is a good example...we'll never know what he could have done had he not suffered such a big setback psychologically (responding to the idea of bad luck/injuries setting the franchise back). Floyd and Crain being injured. Dunn cratering. The Danks injury. Lots of things have gone terribly wrong and they kept the ship afloat until last year somehow.

Sure, trade Sale if we can get the equivalent of Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee back for him. That trade only comes along once a generation, at best.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) It's not just "only" the Red Sox, I'm certain the Rays did something like that as well. We've even had an "all worst to first" world series before, the 1991 Twins and Braves coming off years where both finished in last. I was thinking more in terms of teams that yo-yoed from near the top of their division to last place and then back again in a 3 year stretch, although the White Sox didn't win the Central in 2012. Those Rays, Braves and Twins teams were pretty bad for extended periods of time before breaking through....then the Twins went through nearly another decade-long stretch. It certainly didn't happen in one off-season, it was the result of numerous high draft picks and young pitchers developing and blossoming at the same time.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) Red Sox have 6 starters and may need an outfielder. How about we trade A. Garcia for Peavy ................... Haha....that way we could go back to playing DeAza everyday so we could trade him, lol. Well, at least Voltaire was nicely worked into the conversation in this thread, there's that noteworthy name. (And to think I felt a built guilty for extending the Dunn thread by including some positive comments about Santana, who only 3 people are arguing for). And, not surprisingly, Dick Allen's been fairly quiet about the idea of Don Cooper having magical powers or turning Jimenez into another version of Contreras...although he has been more in favor of adding a veteran pitcher than most here. So somewhere there needs to be an Adam Dunn/Santana/Jimenez/Paulino "catch all" thread at least for the first 2-3 months of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:49 AM) The idea that you can't have a middle win total season is just silly. How many teams in the history of baseball have gone from winning 60 something games in a season to 90 something the next one? Eventually, if your rebuilding is successful, you will have a season of between 77-85 wins. It is a stepping stone on the way to success. Only that Red Sox anomaly, which can be partly attributed to the horrible decision to hire Valentine for one year...

The Cardinals' niche is pitching too, they've just done an even better job at it. For every Quintana, Sale or Santos we've unearthed, they've found 2-3 starters in the draft and in Latin America. Sure, they had Pujols for a generation. They also have the best catcher in baseball, which is a key difference...and probably the one area the White Sox are lacking in the most at the current time, and also where a lot of the problems can be traced back to. FWIW, it does seem that they have a rookie or young player have a breakthrough season nearly every year, whether its Carpenter, Adams, Freese, Craig, Jay, Oscar Taveras now....even going back to Rasmus as well. And then they had the consistent veteran core with Holliday and Beltran, to go with Molina and the best overall pitching talent in the game...paired with a manager who has been evolving and growing from the moment he took over the helm from LaRussa.

I'd say most everyone would be pretty satisfied with 74-76...tops, maybe 78 wins. Those are pretty realistic expectations. To be down in the 60's again would be quite a setback for the franchise, in the sense that it would have to mean there are either major injuries or under-performance again. It would be more like the Cubs' tailspin, minus Baez/Bryant/Soler/Almora/Olt/Alcantara/Vogelbach/Villanueva, etc. Now, of course, there's that group that wants us to make every effort to compete already in 2014, but it's a relative minority....

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 11:22 PM) My initial gut feeling says 75-76 wins, which would be awful for the rebuilding process. As opposed to 80-82 wins? In that case, the attendance is still going to be BLAH and they're going to be picking in the middle of the 2015 draft instead of the Top 10 (probably #4-8). And the White Sox better hope that Abreu, A. Garcia and Viciedo do better than some of these preseason predictions.

From the Heyman article...interesting stuff. Still not the right sign for the White Sox, though. There are clearly some concerns about wear and tear/losing stuff over the last decade, but there's some pretty compelling counter-evidence as well The same could be said for Santana, who like Cruz also had a very good platform year. Santana's agents put together a strong promotional book, pointing out some highlights that may surprise folks. Santana was tied for ninth in quality starts (23) last year, tied for ninth also in the ratio of above-average to below-average starts (3.00; he had 24 that were above average, just eight below average) and tied for eighth in the ratio of starts deemed "strong" or "dominant" by Inside Edge (59.4 percent). In that category, he was tied with no less than Yu Darvish, Jordan Zimmermann and Max Scherzer, the AL Cy Young winner. 1. Santana: This guy is much better than you think, though he may have to settle for less than we all figured. His persuasive promotional book points out that only nine pitchers have started more games than Santana since 2005, and only 11 have thrown more innings. And they aren't bad innings, either. He's been a consistent strike thrower and winner who's become more of a groundball pitcher with the development of a sinker, save for one off year in 2012, when he received all-time bad run support. Pitching only in the American League, he's won 105 games (38 more than Matt Garza, who got $50 million for four years plus a vesting option with no draft choice attached) and should be in line for a major deal. The book points to a value of $112.57 million over five years based on past contracts given to comps Zack Greinke, John Lackey and Burnett. That was never an asking price, mind you. But you couldn't blame them for aiming high considering the numbers. The Jays are known to have checked in, while the Orioles, Yankees and Twins are known to have requested his medicals. Beyond that, not much is known. There's no word yet Santana has dropped his asking price from five years, though at this stage, a four-year deal wouldn't be bad at all.