caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) Viciedo is someone that POSSIBLY has more value on the market than what he actually provides. Everyone else, I totally agree with you about. That organization has to see him as an everyday player (RF/LF/1B/DH) and also have patience with him. And be seriously lacking in power. Which is the exact definition of the White Sox with Konerko leaving, AJ gone, Dunn and Rios soon after.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:34 PM) The story on Santiago might change if he goes on a run of good starts. I could see him becoming highly sought after very quickly. That said, I would be asking for a lot. Why would we be trading Santiago? That makes about zero sense with Danks' comeback far from certain. We all knew Clayton Richard has hit limitations, but it's going to be a huge disappointment unless they get a surefire offensive threat along the lines of 2012 Josh Reddick back.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:29 PM) Conor has made some hard outs today. Thanks, Hawkeroo. LOL.

REALLY? Jesus, our defense needs to be taken to task by someone. Maybe Reinsdorf.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) LOL. If he had him hit away or had him bunt, if it didn't work, you would have criticized him. He did something that's "not by the book" and I'll give him credit for that. And yes, with how the team's been playing, every single move is going to be under the microscope. Yay, Rios! Hopefully he's getting back on track. So much for the vaunted Royals' bullpen, Collins and Crow showing some cracks in the foundation. Even Dunn has an infield hit, haha.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:22 PM) It was risky not to bunt him there. Player somewhat slumping, facing the lefty, Alejandro must have told Robin that he sees him well. Well, if he K'ed or failed on the bunt, we surely would have been ripping on Ventura. Another productive out by Keppinger, getting the runner over to 3rd. Of course, Rios might be our coldest hitter. Scoring on a wild pitch....winning ugly 30 years later, haha.

Not feeling too confident about that Verlander vs. Humber match-up, lol. Sucker's bet?

Ventura might actually be adjusting. He didn't force DeAza to sacrifice there. Just let him hit away, despite his nearly 40 K's on the season.

Now what Ventura? Can we have a "productive" out for ONCE? If DeAza K's here...

QUOTE (Baron @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:13 PM) You could have just said yes. That would have cut down on the bull explanation. You know exactly what kind of mentality is. That stance is absolutely laughable. If players like Sanchez, Thompson, Mitchell and Walker had continued to progress, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If Brent Morel became a solid big leaguer as projected at one point, we wouldn't have needed Keppinger. We might be talking Phegley or Kevan Smith as our "catcher of the future" as early as a month or two from now. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Trading the likes of Erik Johnson or Beck or Snodgress to replace all your position players is not going to be a good recipe for success because you can't have a $50-60 million plus starting rotation.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) I think Viciedo will become 1b next year. Whoever said to count on Sanchez for 2B/SS in 2014 might be getting ahead of themselves at this point.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) Do you realize how many big league pitchers that system has produced in the last 3-4 years? Mostly relievers. There's Santiago, but Quintana was "developed" by the Yankees. Santos came from the D-Backs and was a SS. Axelrod was a 30th round pick of the Padres. We can/should take credit for Gio, Hudson, Clayton Richard, etc. But we mismanaged those assets in the case of Gio/Hudson. If you believe that Hahn can continue to have the same luck finding prospects from other organizations and not end up with more Zach Stewarts and Nestor Molinas instead. Roy Halladay is DONE. Put a fork in him. ERA well above 6 now.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) This team with the same pitching staff, the same lineup minus AJ but plus a real 3B contended for an entire season. Can't be that crazy to think it can continue to do that. If you believe/d that Rios was going to stay hot all season long and play like an MVP candidate with little protection in the line-up, Konerko's going to resurrect past glory at age 37 and Dunn is ever going to get back on track, sure. And Sale/Quintana/Peavy are all in that "year after" with the effects of their overuse threatening in different ways from 2012. Because of our lack of bench, Ventura had to wear out the starters. Wait until it starts to affect Alexei Ramirez, for example, playing every single inning of every game so far.

QUOTE (Jake @ May 5, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Nobody would have said this about the Royals/Sox last year and they aren't much different from last year. James Shields, Ervin Santana, Wade Davis Perez missed most of the first half of the season in 2012. Hosmer's not hitting for power but he's not hitting under .200 and he's getting on base more. Lorenzo Cain was hurt....on this year's team, he would be close to leading the White Sox in RBI's. Moustakas hit 20 homers last year and isn't likely to struggle all season long (that's more probable than Dunn getting back to .200, right?)

QUOTE (fathom @ May 5, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) And how is that? Trading from one of the three worst farm systems in all of baseball? Because we acquired Contreras, Santos, Jenks, Quintana, Santiago, Garland and Floyd for virtually nothing. (That will be the argument). Of course, there's a huge premium on young arms now. The days of trading an aging vet like Dye for Homer Bailey are long gone.

Quintana starting to look around the field at the other players and obviously frustrated with Keppinger. Not good when the pitchers are starting to turn on the fielders/offense. Ventura's going to need to address that...or do something/anything.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ May 5, 2013 -> 12:03 PM) I wouldn't call Keppimger an OBP guy. Dunn and Swisher were failures that no one could anticipate. Swisher succeeded before and after his time here, so who knows what to make of that? Okay, "high contact/lower strikeout" type of player. Instead, he's been more like Brent Morel, minus the stellar defense.

Guess that chiropractic adjustment didn't exactly work out.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 5, 2013 -> 08:27 AM) The question of who to blame was yours. But my follow-up question is does it really matter to you NOW that KW is still associated with the White Sox? If the whole Wilder situation never happened, you'd be okay with him? Keep in mind, Bowden and Jose Rijo with the Nationals were also targets in the skimming scandal, and the Nationals are doing just fine without a slew of Dominican prospects (response to other post in this thread).

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 5, 2013 -> 08:29 AM) Other than Ramirez & Viciedo, you named zero Latin American players that we actually signed as amatuer free agents. I have no idea why you listed a bunch of players with Latin American backgrounds that we either drafted, traded for, or picked up on waivers as a counter to my point. Again, there are two sources of talent (at the lowest level) and we basically didn't use one for a long period of time. That's going to cost you in the long-run and it has. We will never know what trades KW could have made in recent years if he had a few more prospects in the system. Well, we do know that. We probably would have Miguel Cabrera at 3B instead of DET. We could have kept Daniel Hudson or Gio. We could have included prospects so we could get something back in return for Edwin Jackson when he was traded to TOR. I listed those players because we have/had advantages in other areas to counterbalance our weaknesses...at least until this year. You could just as easily say we've done a horrible job scouting and bringing in Asian players, with the exceptions of Takatsu and Iguchi. 1) Cuban connection 2) Training staff (fewest DL trips, pitchers healthy for the most part since 2003) 3) Stability in front office/ownership group 4) Chicago market/WGN/Comcast ownership stake...ability to allocate higher payrolls with lower attendance 5) Our ability to identify and procure hitters and pitchers from other organizations 6) Don Cooper The Minnesota Twins, for example, had the advantage of a new stadium and the star power of Joe Mauer (a bit of a Catch-22), but they've still lost 90+ games for two seasons in a row with a much better scouting and development system than ours, better drafting, and a better organizational philosophy.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ May 5, 2013 -> 08:14 AM) The Sox have had a problem of organizational philosophy. For years, the organization did not value building the minor league system, and emphasized raw power over OBP. These issues lay squarely at the feet of JR and KW. And players like Swisher, Dunn and Keppinger brought in to change the tide have all flopped. That hasn't helped either. It's funny, because in the last two years, we've seen Juan Pierre and AJ go, and we're STILL getting worse in the OBP/walk/patience department.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 5, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) I don't understand how KW can be completely absolved of the Wilder fiasco. As the one who did the hiring he has a share of the responsibility. That's all fine and good, but what would firing or replacing him do at this point? What difference would it make for the future of the organization? Everyone makes mistakes. Heck, it took Abraham Lincoln about EIGHT tries before he found the correct general to lead the Army of the Potomac. Would it really make you feel better if Williams "took one for the team" or "fell on his own sword" and announced his resignation? Then what? Hahn would be completely on his own, with only Paddy, Laumann and Buddy Bell to advise him. Is that such a great idea? Should the Astros' fans blame the Sox for Lucas Harrell, Phil Humber and C. Carter, lol? For a club filled with young, unproven talent and late-career veterans that prides itself on an improved aggressive attack, the Astros continue to commit mind-numbing baseball mistakes. After the Tigers jumped ahead 4-0 in the top of the first inning, Astros rookie center fielder Robbie Grossman responded in the bottom of the frame with a leadoff line-drive single to right field. With contact-hitter Jose Altuve (tied with Cabrera for first in MLB in hits, 42, entering Saturday) at the plate and no outs, Grossman attempted to steal second. He was gunned down by catcher Alex Avila. Altuve lightly grounded out, No. 3 batter Jason Castro struck out and any momentum the Astros had was erased. “That was a straight steal and that’s on me,” Porter said. (Yay for accountability, Porter got it from Hayden Fry) In the second inning, Cabrera’s first rocket of the night was preceded by Torii Hunter taking second as Harrell idly stood near the mound and first baseman Carlos Pena stood in front of his bag. No throw was made and Hunter advanced standing up. Cabrera’s smooth, powerful swing then made it 6-0. Harrell shrugged off his out-of-character start, saying he mostly made good pitches and his mistakes were hit. “I didn’t think they did that well at all,” Harrell said. “I felt like I kept them off balance and they hit a lot of weak contact. They just placed the ball in the right spot.” (Sounds familiar!) Tigers’ might on display The Tigers’ assault occurred on a good baseball night at Minute Maid. The Astros announced their largest attendance in nearly two weeks. A warm May evening initially kept fans in the stands. A batting practice launch party conducted by Prince Fielder and Cabrera had early attendees oohing and aahing as balls alternated between the top of the Crawford Boxes and the second deck of the right-field stands. The warning shots were for real. A frustrated Harrell tossed his glove, shook his head and spoke out loud once innings finally ended. Reliever Jose Cisnero gave up six runs and eight hits in 22⁄3 innings, his ERA ballooning to 5.73. All while Detroit starter Max Scherzer allowed just three hits and one run in eight innings, striking out eight and not allowing an Astros hit between Grossman’s leadoff single and Matt Dominguez’s two-out single in the sixth. The Tigers looked like defending AL champions eyeing another World Series. The Astros looked like an majors-worst 8-23 team on pace for 120 losses and with the worst run differential (-66) in MLB. The lone positive? Detroit’s 15-run knockout only counts as one defeat. “You don’t dwell on the magnitude of it,” Pena said. “You have to just be like, ‘OK. We lost.’ And leave it at that. Regardless of what goes on, it’s very important the way you react to it. … When it’s bad, you try to shrink it. When it’s good, you try to embellish it. And that’s the mind game of this long year.” Houston Chronicle.com/sports/astros

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 5, 2013 -> 08:01 AM) Dave Wilder without question. Not having an influx of talent from Latin America for an extended period of time has put us at a significant disadvantage. We became a crippled organization and it's almost shocking how we've been able to remain competitive in recent years despite this. With even a couple of Latin American players on the roster or prospects available to trade who knows how the last few seasons would have played out. Also, not sure how you can blame KW for the Wilder fiasco. He was highly regarded at the time of the hire and even interviewed for the Red Sox's GM job at one point. Wilder was simply a scumbag who fooled a lot of people in baseball. It sucks for us the way it worked out, but I don't put the blame on KW for Wilder's misdoings. Yes, but we sort of made up for it with Ramirez and Viciedo. I would doubt there are more than a couple of teams that have developed more than 2 starting players from the Dominican since 2008. Throw in Quintana (Colombia), Sergio Santos, Septimo, Santiago (Puerto Rico by way of Newark/30th round), DeAza (Dominican), Rios (Puerto Rico), Gimenez, Angel Sanchez, etc., we have had a representative number of Latin ballplayers, right around the 30-35% mark that's typical for most teams.

Besides losing Beckham at 2B, how can we explain going from the best or one of the best defenses in the AL in 2012 to the worst in the last 2 1/2 months of regular season play? How can the Tigers have gone from worst to first in that category? It seems that DET has at least addressed the leadership issue on the team by bringing in Torii Hunter. Our counter was Jeff Keppinger. Maybe things can never really change with the chemistry/clubhouse until every member of the 2005 team is gone and new leaders emerge to replace Konerko, AJ and Buehrle (and eventually Peavy). Finally, can someone explain why we haven't seemed to even try to adjust our approach against Guthrie? As High Mileage pointed out, the dude's got a 0.04 ERA against us since the start of 2012 in 5 starts against us. There's got to be SOME type of plan or approach...that's different from what's OBVIOUSLY not working.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 5, 2013 -> 07:40 AM) Williams. Among the poor trades and bad contracts, he also hired Dave Wilder. Not producing any Dominican ballplayers for a decade has really hurt. We all know the bad trades (both Swisher ones, Hudson/Jackson, the Javy to Atlanta move...although jury is still out on Flowers, Jackson to Blue Jays, Santos/Molina)....and bad contracts (Dunn and Danks at the moment)...finally, the bad first round draft picks with the exception of Chris Sale. Using Wilder as the excuse for the current state of disarray and lack of development (especially position players) in our minor league system is missing the point. Eventually, Buddy Bell is going to be held accountable as well. Of course, that's not going to pacify 90-95% of the casual Sox fans who have no idea what he even does for the organization.