caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 07:40 PM) Stephen Drew must hate the White Sox. Villarreal is one tough customer though, hard to expect to come through against that guy consistently. 5-1 Tigers now. Momentum shifted quickly from nearly a tie game to this. Smyly would go into the Tigers' rotation if Scherzer is out for a start or more.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 07:43 PM) Can someone fill me in on how we're trailing to the Royals? Floyd? Typical Gavin Floyd brain cramp/brain freeze challenging Sox Killer Billy Butler with a free base and runners on 2nd/3rd, one out (amazingly, Escobar and his 482 BAA the Sox was retired).

Good idea not to hit a ball at any Royals' CFer. Cain, Dyson, Lough, whoever they throw out there seems to be a great defender.

Might as well wake up Hosmer, too! Center cut fastballs tend to do that.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 07:25 PM) It was. Which is why pitching to him was so smart. Except Perez is just as dangerous as Butler, at least against us. It's an argument that has two very strong sides, but you don't want to give up a grand slam in the 1st. Tigers' pen hopefully will get burned up today. The problem, though, is that it SHOULD be well rested with Verlander going tmrw, and Sanchez also pitched well his last time out, carrying a no-hitter late into the game. That A's line-up doesn't test you, other than a slumping Reddick and Cespedes, it's 75% their pitching and 25% timely hits and homers.

Billy Butler, of course! What a nightmare, that Royals' line-up is for our pitchers this year. Hopefully Sale is an exception tmrw.

Escobar with a career 482 average against the Sox coming into that AB.

Undefeated string for Griffin in danger. He and Jered Weaver the only rookies to start 11 games, no losses, sub 2 ERA, in their MLB careers.

Oakland with a schedule from hell down the stretch. DET, Yankees, 2 series with the Rangers.

His velocity was down a bit and he was going a lot more sidearm/three-quarters arm slot...maybe something is bothering him physically. He's had a ton of wear and tear on that arm/shoulder/elbow...both him and Verlander, due to Leyland consistently leaving him in so long.

Impressive. Peralta catches a pitch and lashes it for an opposite field homer. Especially to do that in cold September Detroit weather. 2-1 Tigers. Not a good idea to trade Alexei Ramirez and replace him with Stephen Drew. Note for Marty34. Tigers 48-21 when Jackson scores a run. We probably have a similar stat with DeAza.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 06:31 PM) Scherzer getting an insane amount of swing and misses so far. And that's with his "B" fastball in the 93-94 MPH range. What is impressive is how much movement he's getting with that change-up...the tailing action is similar to Colon or Peavy in his prime.

1-1 in the Tigers game. Oakland mounted a 2 out attack against Max Patkin, AJ Griffin pitching out of 1st and 3rd no out situation after giving up a SAC fly to Miggy. Top of the 2nd. Tie game. Griffin has an impressively slow curveball, 67-69 MPH, about the speed of Shingo's frisbee curve. 4 of the first 5 Oakland outs are K's by Scherzer. Man, he's on a roll. Now he's going to a 3/4's arm slot occasionally to throw in a new look. But 2 walks and 2 hits as well. Velocity at 93-94, almost 40 pitches through 1 2/3rds. 44 pitches...bottom of the 2nd now.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 12:07 PM) Kenny Williams is a very good GM and has been that for many years. He's only made a couple bonehead moves (Teahen, trading for the wrong player, the Thome situation, the CF situation for years), but those aren't the ones people focus on. The "misses" he gets stuck with were either all win-now moves (Edwin Jackson, the first Swisher deal, etc.) where he traded good-but-not-great prospects for highly talented proven players, or else low risk/high reward types that didn't work out (Sisco, Massett, MacDougal's extension, etc.). Pretty much everything Kenny Williams has done in the last 10 years has either been a great move that the Sox have benefited from or at least a decent on-paper move that only looks bad viewed in hindsight. Let's not forget that some of the "worst" moves Kenny has ever made, at least when you go back and look at the fan reaction when the deals were made - trading Brandon McCarthy, giving up Miguel Olivo AND Jeremy Reed plus Morse as a 3rd player which was a huge haul for rental Freddy Garcia, trading the now-injured Dan Hudson who I think we should all finally agree is NOT what many here trumped him up as, etc. - these have all been pretty good moves or at least haven't really stopped the forward progress of the organization. Kenny's bad farm system rankings are going to start to turn around fast now that Mr. Club Burn is out of here and the new CBA has put the Sox on pretty even ground. Watch Kenny build and then maintain a consensus mid-tier farm system while constantly depleting it through trades. Meanwhile, watch what Theo does on the North side. It'll be apparent rather quickly who the better GM is. And finally, one more thing to throw out there about Kenny & his farm: there are about 20-30 prospects per organization for the national "prospect evaluators" to pay attention to, plus the players who have graduated/fallen out of list contention, plus the players in the upcoming draft, plus the guys coming out of the Dominican as teenagers, or out of Cuba or Japan, etc. There are literally several hundred "prospects" out there for these national guys to pay attention to. Most of the time they are working on old 2nd or 3rd hand information that may account for nothing more than a couple of observations. These guys are desk jockeys who sit there and try to use their own criteria to come up with ranking systems more or less based on nothing. They are not pro scouts and their opinions & rankings mean next to nothing. If they get to see a good amount of video on a particular prospect then it's probably such a big name prospect that any fan with an internet connection can see the same thing. They are the Joe Cowleys of the prospect world, i.e. they have their "sources" which in general seem to account for very little and are really the only advantages they have over the average educated fan with an opinion. The Hector Santiagos and Jose Quintanas and Eduardo Escobars of the world always fall through the cracks with these guys, and only through posting otherwordly numbers in the minors do they ever get attention. The problem with that is that players like this account for a good percentage of the players actually competing in the Major Leagues. KW, Rick Hahn, Buddy Bell, etc. are showing that they have a system in place that is working and is producing actual results. Who the f*** cares if Keith Law doesn't like Chris Devenski or Matt Heindenreich? I doubt Houston does, and I certainly don't because I kind of like having Brett Myers coming in late in the game. So basically f*** these prospect guys, kudos to KW & the Sox. And next time KW trades a prospect nobody knows anything about, don't sit there and say "KW is a thief" like an idiot just because Keith Law says so, maybe give KW & his group a little bit of credit for finding a prospect that another team likes enough to bother trading a proven veteran for. Good post. However, I don't think ANYONE ever considered Escobar a potential force, any more than Andy Gonzalez, for example. And to characterize Gio Gonzalez as a "good but not great prospect" is slighting one of the best young pitchers in baseball. When all is said and done, there will be more complaining over dealing Gio for Swisher than perhaps any other trade that has been made, other than Todd Ritchie for Wells/Fogg/Lowe. But yeah, the Juan Uribe/Aaron Miles trade was another example of an under-the-radar trade that clearly led to 2005. Bobby Jenks and Sergio Santos also deserve/d mentions in the original article as "dumpster dives" that panned out incredibly well. And there's bound to be grumbling about Z. Stewart and Molina, although Stewart partially ended up getting us Youk and one of the players traded for Quentin led to the acquisition of Liriano, who has given us some decent starts down the stretch and helped buy time for Sale and Gavin Floyd, as well as Jose Quintana.

Yay, no Cain or Dyson! Also, Escobar has killed us too, but yeah, that Perez kid is scariest and threatening to become one of Hawk's new faves. It would be interesting to see if Wise would have still been in the line-up had we blown that game in the last inning, after his base-running gaffe. He was the best hitter yesterday for us, so probably. And Viciedo REALLY would have been one of the goats, if not for the Rios takeout slide.

That would be nice Hibbard. We have to get over the Royals curse....and then survive the series out in LA, only lose 2/3 at worst, not getting swept.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 18, 2012 -> 07:40 AM) I was at the game. Despite the fact that it was 29k paid, and probably about 18-20k in actual attendance... that crowd was the most electric I've heard at a Sox game in a long time. Particularly the last few innings, the crowd was really into things. It was fantastic. After Wise tied it and Youk smashed that drive that ALMOST eluded Peralta, it felt a lot like the Blackout Game. Not quite so still/quiet/holding their breath tense for most of it, because of the one and done nature...but still the same nervousness the last 3 innings. When Viciedo hit that tailor made DP ball, I'm sure most everyone was sighing and about to smash their remote or television.

Ramirez WASN'T that sought after, really. He was another version of Ramon Santiago, to many scouts. But Wise, Quintana, DeAza, Humber, Youk, Myers, Liriano, Veal, Heath, Marinez (acquired for Ozzie), Nathan Jones, Reed (taking a closer in the first 3-5 rounds of a draft), Hector Santiago...they all kind of fit the definition. Rios, essentially, was picked up for free, just his contract was assumed. Thornton was the original successful dumpster dive that REALLY worked out well, along with the likes of Loaiza, Quentin, Contreras, Dye, AJ, Iguchi, Pods, Hermanson and many others. Gavin Floyd fits to a tee, as well. CUE MARTY34 appearance to say he should be fired if the White Sox don't make the playoffs.

Outside the box: White Sox reliever Nate Jones improved to 8-0 on the season with Monday’s win. He overtook Goose Gossage (1972) for the best start by a White Sox rookie reliever and tied John Whitehead (1935) for best start for a White Sox rookie overall. http://www.espn.com/chicago

QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Sep 17, 2012 -> 09:02 PM) Wise won the game for us, so there's that...... And Rios. And the bullpen/Ventura.

Romney told the donors: There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what. ... These are people who pay no income tax. My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. Romney seems to be referring to the estimated 47 percent of Americans who did not owe federal income taxes in 2011 because their incomes were so low that they qualified for a tax credit, or because they didn't work at all. Last year, 22 percent of people who didn't owe income taxes were elderly people on Social Security, and an additional 17 percent were students, disabled people or the unemployed. More than 60 percent of the group were low-income workers, many of whom qualified for the child tax credit or the earned income tax credit. (These workers did pay payroll taxes for Social Security and other programs.) www.yahoonews.com

CHICAGO – The margin of error now for the Detroit Tigers has become dangerously thin. Of course, you can’t mention the word “error” in the same sentence with the Tigers without Omar Infante. The second baseman has become as heart palpitating on the double play pivot as Jose Valverde spraying water with a one-run lead in the ninth. For the second straight game, a Tigers’ loss can be directly traced to giving an opponent extra outs due to an Infante defensive breakdown. Infante is killing them right now. And time for resuscitative measures is running out after today’s 5-4 loss to the White Sox. Making matters worse for the Tigers as they now trail division-leading Chicago by three games is that there are no viable replacement options. This is the sickness the Tigers willingly brought upon themselves. They sacrificed defense for offense this season. And then the offense stuttered and stumbled. And when forced to win games the conventional way — like limiting opponents to 27 outs per game — they’re incapable of getting the inning-ending double play that the truly fundamentally sound teams execute with regularity. “I’m a little frustrated because I’m making a lot of errors, knowing that the team needed defense,” Infante said. He sparkles with the difficult chances, but fumbles the basics. Has Infante now officially become the poster child for this season? “That’s the one thing we’ve preached since spring training,” Tigers manager Jim Leyland said. “It’s 27 outs, not 30 or 31. We’ve given up some extra outs. And we’ve paid for it. On some occasions, we pitched above it. On others, we didn’t. When you’re giving up 30 outs, that usually spells trouble for you.” It looked as though the Tigers would escape from the fifth inning with a 4-3 lead after Dayan Viciedo hit a grounder to Jhonny Peralta at short. He flipped it Infante for the force out, but Infante grabbed the throw in front of the bag, making him vulnerable to a hard slide from the fast-charging Alex Rios. This was a tactical error on Infante’s part. Usually to space oneself from the oncoming runner, the second baseman will take the toss behind the bag or toward the left side of the bag. Rios disrupted the throw, spiking Infante in the ankle on the slide. An argument could be made that Prince Fielder should’ve scooped up the one-hopper. After all, it is the first baseman’s primary defensive task to clean up his infielder’s throwing messes as regularly as possible. But Infante assumed full responsibility. That’s nice. But it’s not helpful. He has committed eight errors at second base for the Tigers. And he has been with the team only six weeks since the significant trade deadline acquisition that supposedly would push the Tigers ahead of the White Sox. His last three errors decisively factored into the Tigers’ last three losses. Contact Drew Sharp: 313-223-4055 or [email protected].

By Mark Gonzales, Chicago Tribune reporter September 18, 2012 Since the White Sox still commemorate Dewayne Wise's catch that preserved Mark Buehrle's 2009 perfect game, perhaps they can put a mark around second base to honor Alex Rios' slide Monday that moved them closer to an improbable American League Central title. Rios' slide broke up a potential inning-ending double play that resulted in a throwing error by second baseman Omar Infante in the fifth inning. The tying and go-ahead runs scored on the play, propelling the Sox to a 5-4 victory over the rival Tigers and extending their lead to three games with 16 games left. "I just told him that might be the play of the year," Gordon Beckham said after the Sox rallied from deficits of 3-0 and 4-3 to extend their winning streak to four games. Rios' slide was the biggest in a series of contributions that helped the Sox beat the Tigers for only the sixth time in their 18 meetings. Relievers Nate Jones (8-0), Donnie Veal, Brett Myers, Matt Thornton and Addison Reed combined to throw five scoreless innings. Wise, who made a boneheaded play on the base paths in the eighth, tied the game in the fourth with a two-out, two-run single. "We got our base hits, we scored on walks and we did a lot of things," Rios said. "We played very well, and that's what we got to do from now on." The next challenge starts Tuesday night in Kansas City against the Royals, who have a 10-5 record against the Sox. "If we go to Kansas City and not play well, it's all for naught," Adam Dunn said. "Every one is big now. (Tuesday) is the biggest game of the year. I'm not going to sit here and downplay it, but if we don't go to KC and Anaheim and win games, it means nothing." But Monday's win gave the Sox some breathing room, thanks largely to Rios' slide. "If (Infante) stays in the baseline, I'm going to get him," Rios said. "But I thought it was a clean slide and every middle infielder knows that if they stay in the baseline, something like that is going to happen." Rios' slide came a half-inning after Jones bailed starter Jose Quintana out of a jam in the fifth. Veal relieved Jones and struck out Prince Fielder to end the seventh, making it 24 straight left-handers Veal has faced without allowing a hit, with 12 strikeouts. In an interesting twist, manager Robin Ventura opted for the percentages and kept Myers in after he had pitched a perfect eighth, and Myers retired pinch hitter Quintin Berry. Left-hander Matt Thornton then was summoned and struck out Andy Dirks. Closer Addison Reed finally entered the game and retired Austin Jackson on a fly to right for his 27th save. "It's always good to get into a big game and stuff's on the line right there," Myers said. "I think players excel in those situations, and we were able to pull one out." [email protected]

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 17, 2012 -> 06:18 PM) The Oakland/Tigers series is in Detroit, not Oakland. No official start for Thursday yet, but sounds like it will probably be Liriano. Yeah, I was reading somewhere else here that it was on the road and didn't take the time to look it up, so lazy. "I made a mistake," Wise said. "I almost blew it. I've been playing this game too long to make a mistake like that. I'm just thankful the way we were able to pull it out."Wise started in place of Alejandro De Aza, who is in a 2-for-21 slump over his last five games. "(De Aza) is fine," manager Robin Ventura said. "He's just out of there (Monday). Saturday, he just seemed out of sync. We'll wait for him to kind of work on that and get back in there." De Aza struck out four times and went 0-for-5 Saturday. Return engagement: Gavin Floyd said he's accustomed to pitching with extra rest after the Sox employed a six-man rotation for about three months last season. "That extra rest seemed a little weird, but you pitched every six days," said Floyd, who will start Tuesday night in Kansas City on five days' rest. "It does help, especially after coming off 15 days (on the disabled list) and not pitching for a while." Floyd also said he was grateful that he healed from a right elbow flexor strain in time to pitch in a true postseason race for the first time since 2008, when he won a team-high 17 games in helping the Sox to the American League Central title. "This is an exciting year, and this will play out the next 16 games," Floyd said. "It's been fun all year. We have a great group of guys, and we're trying to push and win this." Extra innings: Sox relievers have allowed one earned run over their last 13 innings, covering four games. ... www.chicagotribune.com/sports

"I just told him that might be the play of the year," said White Sox second baseman Gordon Beckham of Rios' slide. "Every second baseman knows we're coming in hard. It was a clean slide, and we took advantage," Rios said. "We scored two runs on that play and ended up winning the game, so it was a big play." "How many times do you see a guy slide or pull up and this or that?" Dunn said. "Alex went in hard and essentially won us a game." Rios' slide was followed by White Sox bullpen domination. Delmon Young's run-scoring single with nobody out in the fifth was the last hit of the day for Detroit, with Jones recording three outs in relief of Jose Quintana to end the fifth and the Tigers going 12-up, 12-down on 48 pitches from the sixth through the ninth. Robin Ventura played the ninth like a trained musician would work a finely-tuned instrument. The White Sox manager started with Myers, who retired pinch-hitter Quintin Berry on a ground ball to third baseman Kevin Youkilis. Left-hander Matt Thornton came in for left-handed-hitting pinch-hitter Andy Dirks and struck him out on three fastballs. Then it was Reed, who jumped ahead 0-2 on Austin Jackson and induced a game-ending fly ball to Rios. White Sox relievers possess a 0.69 ERA over the last four games, covering 13 innings pitched. "It wasn't just about the bullpen," said Jones, who made his 15th consecutive scoreless appearance. "It was about the guys making plays behind us and the offense kicking in when it needed to. It's about Quintana. He kept it close enough to where we could do our job. It's all about the team." In Monday's victory, the White Sox found much greater success against Doug Fister (9-9) than the two-hitter he threw at them over seven innings last Tuesday. Fister was staked to a 3-0 lead in the third, and even pitched out of a bases-loaded, one-out jam in the bottom of the frame by striking out Youkilis and Dunn. Fister wasn't so fortunate in the fourth, hitting Beckham with a 1-0 pitch to force home a run with two outs. Dewayne Wise then connected on a 3-1 fastball to single home two more to tie the game. Detroit regained the lead in the fifth on Miguel Cabrera's leadoff double off Quintana, Prince Fielder's infield single and Young's single. On Fielder's grounder to Dunn at first, Quintana was late getting off the mound but still appeared to beat Fielder to the bag. First-base umpire Mike Muchlinski disagreed. Despite holding these two early advantages, the Tigers missed on three prime chances to take total control. Jhonny Peralta hit into a double play with runners on first and second and nobody out in the second, and Brennan Boesch followed with a swinging strikeout against Quintana. Boesch struck out swinging on a 3-2 pitch to strand the bases loaded in the third, before Peralta hit into a second rally-killing double play and Boesch grounded out to shortstop Alexei Ramirez to end the fifth. A Wise baserunning mistake in the eighth, where he tagged up and was thrown out at third by Avisail Garcia for the final out before Beckham could score on Dunn's fly ball to left, cost the White Sox an insurance run. Fortunately, it didn't change the outcome or the look of the standings. Basically, the AL Central hasn't changed since last Monday night, when the White Sox, who are 2-9 in their last 11 games against the Tigers, took the series opener from Detroit and held a three-game advantage. The only difference is taking six more games off the schedule. Monday's outcome marked the Tigers' 10th straight one-loss. The game certainly featured major playoff ramifications, but no postgame concessions. "That doesn't bother me at all," said Tigers manager Jim Leyland of the deficit. "It's right there in front of us. There's no secrets. There's plenty of time, but you have to win games." "Tomorrow becomes a whole different game and different team," said Ventura, whose team returns to its nine-game road trip in Kansas City. "Be sure you worry about yourself and not worry about anything else. There's nothing you can do about [the Tigers]." chisox.com (Scott Merkin)