caulfield12

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:32 PM) start with Viciedo and Castro. Since these team's are shying away I'd expect the offers aren't pouring in. The Brewers need a hitter at first base, no? Why do you always want to trade away predominantly the Hispanic players on our team or in our organization? Just curious. Used to be Ramirez over and over, now it's Viciedo.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/7/16/3163014/...ty-trade-rumors This article actually argues NOBODY knows what the hell's in Greinke's mind, but teams are being wary. Another warning sign is the decrease in velocity and WED start pushed back because of his 3 consecutive starts bookended around the ASB. It was around that time that Greinke also conducted one hell of a strange interview that sadly seems to have been pulled from the web. There was crying about Jennifer Aniston and sharing home and garden magazines and everything. In the long history of athlete interviews, that's one that's always stuck with me. It was clear that Greinke was different, but starting around then, he developed the reputation of being weird. Which was fine, because he did seem weird, relative to other players. But the thing about weird people is that they're tough to figure out, tough to put into boxes. That's what makes them weird. People have understood Greinke to be weirder than most, but they've taken that to make assumptions that they don't know enough to make. The most prevalent example is that Greinke wouldn't want to pitch in a big market, and indeed that he couldn't handle it. There would be too many people, too much attention, too much pressure for a guy of Greinke's personality and mental health. If a pitcher is socially anxious in Kansas City, how could he possibly deal with New York or Boston? Of course, about that: "I wouldn’t put it past him to go to New York," the source said. "I don’t think he’d rule out anybody. He says he likes New York. Especially because they’re winners. He wants to go to a team that wins." (source) "There's more people to ignore in New York or Boston than there are in Milwaukee," he said, "but I would still ignore them, probably." (source) More generally, it seems a lot of people act like they know what's best for Zack Greinke, and what he might like and dislike. People know Zack Greinke as being weird, and then they put him in a weird box and expect him to do things they think weird people would do. Greinke doesn't fit the usual profile, so people have given him a different profile that's equally restrictive and under-informed. Probably more under-informed.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) I think you are dead wrong. I lived in Kansas City from 1996-2005, and 2006-2007. I saw the Greinke nightmare close up and personal. If you're the kind of GM who is going to offer $150 million to Josh Hamilton, then by all means, offer $120 to Greinke. But it's an insanely high risk tolerance you have playing with someone else's money. I’ve been saying all along that, on paper, Greinke seems like the kind of player and person that might just be willing to stay in Kansas City for the long term. He is, obviously, a unique person. He may have learned to live with his social anxiety disorder, but it is still a part of who he is, and it’s unlikely that the seductive charms of New York or LA or Boston would appeal to him as much as they do so many other ballplayers. As Greinke said, “Kansas City is actually a great town for me. It’s pretty small, but it’s big, too.” Kansas City isn’t big enough for a lot of players; it’s big enough for Greinke. His personality would suggest that he would be happy to trade a little fame and fortune to stay in a comfortable and familiar environment for the rest of his career, and in Kansas City he has that: an organization that has nurtured him since high school, a friendly and small local media contingent, an adoring fan base. On paper, I thought Greinke was a candidate not to just sign a long-term deal with the Royals, but if all went well, to sign several of them. Until yesterday, that was all a theory. I thought Greinke would be comfortable playing in a medium-sized city where he can have all the anonymity he wants, that he didn’t have a case of wanderlust, that he appreciated how the Royals stood with him in his darkest hours. I thought all that, but I didn’t know. Now I know, and that’s what makes this contract particularly sweet. At the risk of coming off as a naïve and sentimental sap, I believe (and have been told this by other sources) what Sam Mellinger said in his column: that this deal got done at least in part because Greinke saw the way that he was received by Royals fans on the caravan, and the way that David Glass treated him in a heart-to-heart, and decided that maybe the grass under his feet was green enough. My inner fan says that between the Royals Caravan and the FanFest, Greinke felt the love from Royals fans, and decided to reciprocate. (My inner analyst was about to respond, but my inner fan decked him before he could talk, then stomped on his glasses and pocket protector for good measure.) ranyontheroyals.com

Quintana's value isn't that high, though. He's currently seen by every team in baseball as a 5th starter or bullpen arm. Nobody's going to give up a frontline starter for him...you'll be lucky to get a Kevin Millwood or Jose Vargas.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:04 PM) Are you sure Hamels has the desire to pitch in Chicago during a pennant race? Much more than Greinke, yes.

QUOTE (Carter224 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 10:01 PM) You will never know unless you find out, and I think ide rather take a shot at Greinke than do nothing and watch Dylan Axelrod do nothing for this team the rest of the way.. I dont think many fans are going to boo the franchise for trying to win another championship.. And 2014-2015-2016? You dont know who we will have or who comes out of nowhere for this team by then.. you cant always just think about the future, because in the present right now our 1st place lead is getting close to being history. Ill take winning now please. If there's a reasonable belief that you can get John Danks back in the first half of August, then I think you have to hold off making a huge deal for a pitcher. We might end up giving up 1st place at some point to the Tigers, but after this next 3-4 weeks, the overall schedule definitely turns in our favor in terms of competition and home vs. away games down the stretch.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:56 PM) I'd probably just dump Gavin...if I had the money to spend, I'd try and get Jake to stay for 2/$20, which he would most likely laugh at, but I'm not willing to offer him another huge contract after what we've gone through with him. That's really $24 million for 2 years, because you're giving him the buyout. Are we sure we want to turn around and give Peavy that kind of money? I guess $12 million for Peavy (average, like AJ's deal, assuming they could backload the 2nd year of the contract), wouldn't be the WORST thing in the world, but it's not a huge bargain necessarily.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) When the future of the franchise is Viciedo, Jones, Mitchell, it's ok to mortgage it. So let me get this straight. You want to trade for someone who we're not even sure has desire right now to pitch in a pennant race or in a city or media market like Chicago? You're just going to force him to pitch for the White Sox? Then you're going to not only trade away our future and give the guy $100-110 million? Have you lost your mind? When this whole thing blows up, are you going to blame KW? Please repeat after me...at this moment, I, Marty34, will never hold KW responsible for any Zack Greinke trade going completely awry and setting the franchise back for half a decade. I, Marty34, realize that when there's nobody hitting homers for the White Sox in 2014-15-16, I will have myself to blame for the completely punchless offense.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:48 PM) He just sat for several days last week (ASB). He's 4 for his last 36. 26 for his last 115 for an icy .226 average. Only five walks. 1 homer and 7 RBI's. DeAza is really really hurting our offense right now, along with Paulie and Dunn's inability to drive in RISP recently.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) They could afford it if they win it all. Hamels/Sale/Quintana/Danks/Humber?/Castro?/Axe? Danks will be fine over the long haul. I guess if you signed Hamels, you'd have to let Jake go, but I'd pay Hamels the money. Guy is as good as it gets. If they went that direction, they would also keep Gavin Floyd as the fifth starter at $9.5 million for 2013. Nobody knows exactly what we have with Quintana. He could just as easily end up Phil Humber 2012 version as a solid starter we can rely upon. Who knows?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 09:43 PM) Do it for either Hamels or Greinke. Cliff Lee for that matter. Unless you're his personal doctor and know Zack well, sticking him into the heat of a pennant race in Chicago might be the worst thing for him. You don't gamble away Viciedo, Jones, Mitchell, etc., for that type of risk. Sure, Hamels. But nobody else. This social anxiety disorder is something that could flare up at any moment, just like Hamilton's drug problems. I, for one, am not willing to mortgage the future of the franchise on it. Not without a ton of DUE DILIGENCE on it, and even then, I would only do it if I had solutions for the bullpen issues.

This is idiotic. We might not even last through the week with our bullpen like this. Rule #1 in baseball. Rookies don't get questionable or borderline strikes on the road against veterans. See Septimo tonight. Rule #2, relievers get hammered, even when they throw 97-100, get behind in the count and have to come with a fastball. Rule #3, multiply X10 when you have 8 rookie relievers Unless we get Crain back and add one more veteran piece, the pen will be (and is) in danger of crumbling with Jones stumbling more often now and Santiago banished to the last reliever in the pen. There's an even bigger problem. DeAza is in a terrible slump and/or he's dead tired. If he was getting on in front of YOUK, then we'd be scoring a lot more often, taking advantage of Kevin's hot streak. DeAza should sit for 1-2 games just to recharge his batteries and get Danks some playing time. Danks is certainly not the long term answer, but Alejandro's lost 30+ points off his batting average recently and isn't walking nearly as much. With Dunn hitting in the 210's (compare to Cabrera and Jones, who are high average hitters AND run producers) and Konerko in a huge funk, we're going to struggle. Luckily, YOUK, Rios and AJ have been carrying us the last two weeks.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:09 PM) Because then Ozzie will mouth off against them. Also, because they have more class than Oney. Which is exactly what's happening in Boston. They're not mouthing off directly, but they're killing Valentine with a thousand paper cuts, anonymously.

For some reason, I think Ventura: 1) Doesn't want to mess with the current chemistry by cutting Hudson and values his "leadership/presence/experience" 2) Doesn't really like Lillibridge much as a player 3) And with Youk, we have another 1B to substitute over there when we PR for Dunn/Konerko Charlotte would be fine. Not sure if he'll get picked up on a major league deal or not. Gordon would be happy to be reunited with his bud, obviously. FWIW, Pedroia's supposed to be back THUR. Unfortunately, we now have to deal with Middlebrooks and Ellsbury and Crawford, although Carl & Valentine might get booed as often as YOUK and Francona get cheered.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) I agree with you I wouldn't want the Sox to give up Viciedo, all I was saying is that connecting Viciedo to the Brewers makes no sense to me at all. I also happen to think people are overrating Mitchell's trade value on here though. I don't think Mitchell and Jones gets you Dempster, to be honest. Without draft pick compensation, that SHOULD be enough. If necessary, throw in Trayce Thompson, Rienzo, Petricka, Johnson, Olacio, Leesman, etc. Would like to hold on to both Santiago and Castro and see what they evolve into.

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) The main difference is that Viciedo's bat speed was always raved about. I think I remember it being described as elite when the Sox signed him. By now you know he can hit balls that most Major Leaguers have no chance at. The main area he needs to work on now is driving fastballs into RF instead of trying to jack every single pitch out. It's similar to Quentin, in a way, although Dayan takes an even more pronounced hack. Every opposing pitcher's book is throw Viciedo and Beckham high heat (above the belt) and breaking stuff off the plate and they'll bite. Both have shown SOME signs of progress, but they're not 100% out of the woods yet. Both have been taking more walks recently and laying off that pitch a bit better. I'm also starting to think being around Youkilis, Dunn and Konerko is rubbing off on them. Even Rios is getting more selective.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) I think Shields makes more sense than Greinke, and that Tampa might have more use for a corner outfielder like Viciedo. The Brewers have absolutely no need for Tank. Okay, then who are we going to play in LF if we did trade him? Dan Johnson? Pierre? I can see Williams giving up Mitchell and Jones (if Crain is going to be healthy), but not Viciedo. And Shields' contract is pretty similar to Gavin Floyd's ($9.5 million for 2013) so it's not like we're getting anything resembling a cheap pitcher. Tampa Bay really can't afford to keep pitchers like Shields on their roster with their attendance issues anyway. Under no circumstances would I deal Viciedo for Shields. There have to be other options. Shields isn't a #1 guy in the true sense of it. Good/solid, but not great.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) Per MLB trade rumors. Good trade? Same thing happened to Brian Anderson. Waived by BOS. And to think, 6 months ago, he was the most inquired about member of our organization. How times changed so quickly for the Stealth Elf.

Marty34 coming into 2013 when the Sox don't make the playoffs...because their offense goes into the "Tanks" when Juan Pierre puts up a .597 OPS replacing Viciedo. "KW should be fired for giving up Viciedo, Mitchell and Jones for Greinke. We didn't re-sign him and now this team's at least 3-4 years from being able to compete again. We won't ever draw 2,000,000 fans again, and customers at Applebee's in Lawrence will forget Ozzie or the White Sox even existed by 2015." Notice not even Marty's saying we should sign Greinke for $120-140 million over 6 years. He now just thinks we should "rent" him for the next 2 1/2 months.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) 2012: Viciedo's OPS v. RH .689 Pierre's OPS v RH .814 Why don't we just wait until the offseason and sign Josh Hamilton and Greinke? Pick up Youk's option, ba da bing, we're ready to roll for 2013.

Marty, are you also known as NCORGBL? I'm starting to wonder.

Cue Greg Walker "lift and pull" comments. At first site (sight) Castillo is impressive physically, he’s a man child, and when he starts swing the bat he makes your attention draw closer. He extends his arms and squares up pitches with authority. He has quick hand through the hitting zone and his bat path is consistently on an even plane. He doesn’t produce much elevation with his swing but he hits the ball harder than any player on the field. Castillo is a dead pull hitter learning how to use the entire field. Defensively he has good lateral movement, average hands and makes routine plays. His arm strength is average and he runs well for a big guy. Sounds like Viciedo, minus the arm strength. Willl probably end up a corner OFer or DH, but the more raw but talented hitting prospects we have like this kid, Thompson, Barnum, Hawkins, the better off we'll be.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) I don't care if it's his first year or fifth year. I also could not care less about his development the rest of this year. A 100+ difference in obp that could be had cheaply is an upgrade worth considering. Why not Jordan Danks? He was hitting over .400 recently. That would be even cheaper.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) Didn't say play him every day. I guess you're ok with the .278 obp against righties and that .411 slg. Why get a guy who gets on base when you have all that? By all means, not only should we have All-Stars at every position, we should really be 6 1/2 or 7 1/2 up on the Tigers if KW would have kept Buehrle instead of Danks and were it not for our inexperienced bullpen and starting out the season with Santiago and sticking Sale in there, too. BOO KW!!! You suck. And you should be fired anyway for trading Santos for Molina and low attendance. And Brent Morel hasn't developed. Etc. Essentially, Viciedo at age 23 is about 20-30 points lower than the average OPS for a major league LF (but when you take into consideration all at-bats, still better than average). So we should play Dan Johnson in his place. Or Juan Pierre. Or Conor Jackson. Maybe we should pick on Gordon Beckham for striking out so much?

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 12:30 PM) Sox sign DR 3B Luis Castillo for $450k Sounds like a good power hitter. FYI, $450k would be early 3rd round slot or just a few picks ahead of where 3rd rounder Joey DeMichele was taken. Yay, 2 Dominicans now. Cause for celebration. Not to mention Septimo and DeAza in the fold.