caulfield12

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 12, 2013 -> 10:35 PM) I agree were about 1 or 2 good moves from seriously contending. And I agree as the rosters stand now the Tigers are about a 90% favorite to win the division. Then do we just concede the division this season and just go through the motions and lose more fans or do we do what is needed to give the Tigers a serious run at the title and not worry that we have to save some young players for the seasons down the road. I say we worry about 2015 in 2015 and make the moves now that will give us the best shot to win now. That's all fine and good, but overpaying for the likes of Nick Swisher and Edwin Jackson has gotten us where? In a pretty difficult bind. Same thing with adding Dunn coming into 2011 when that seemed like a pretty logical move to take us over the top. Like most of the past decade, you'd have to guess the front office to see where they are with the roster at midseason...if Verlander and Scherzer both pitch like Cy Young winners, they suffer no major injuries and the back end of the Detroit bullpen can stand up, a huge/risky trade alone won't be enough. Like it or not, we're just with "wait and see" until some of the younger position players develop.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 12, 2013 -> 08:29 PM) From the description, one would think it has to be Moose Skowron's. I wonder how much it would be worth if it was Dave Wilder's. I would say Wilder would be more likely, knowing what we do of his financial situation, but he doesn't fit the criteria of being a former World Series winner with multiple rings like Skowron does. Maybe something like $4-5,000 if it's Dave Wilder's.

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 12, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) So are you saying we should just settle for a none serious season long contending team on opening day and be happy if we catch a few breaks and maybe win 85 games again? You might be contend to sit back and watch Detroit and KC get better while our off season has been a wash, we get Keppinger and lose AJ. We all hope that Danks will start the season on the opening day roster but that is not a given. Like I said previously not all of Kenny's moves were successful but at least he had the nuts to pull the trigger on deals that he though could make the team better. So far Rick Hahn has done nothing creative with the same limited resources Kenny had to show alot of us diehard Sox fans that he is serious about winning this winnable division. Of course Dunn could cut his strikeouts down to under 100, Beckham finally could hit like he belongs in the major leagues, maybe Thornton will not lose double digit games again, maybe The Tank will stop swinging at pitches that are way outside of the strike zone, just maybe the entire team will actually learn how to bunt and who knows this year we will might actually score a runner from third with less then 2 outs on a regualr basis. There's a chance Flowers will hit his weight and not his career ave of .205. That sure is alot of if's. If all that happens then Rick Hahn was right by not making any major moves. The chances of all that happening isn't to good so I say lets ket the rest of the division know that we are serious about competing this season and do something that will make us obviously better. The difference isn't that great. It's usually just one or two moves. But consistently hitting the mark is impossible in predicting stocks or making "winning" trades year after year after year. Flip Victor Martinez for Adam Dunn in 2011, the Sox have a MUCH better shot of competing. Flip Thome (not going to the Twins) for Kotsay/Jones in 2010. Last year, they did about as much as humanly possible with Youkilis, Myers and Liriano and it just didn't quite work out in the end. On paper, the Tigers win the division 90%+ of the time if it was a computer simulation. As currently comprised, this team is still at least 2 impact players away, and we can't mortgage our future, nor should we...if Paul Konerko is gone after 2013, they're going to have to find someone to market, and the plan won't be "come out and see Adam Dunn and Alex Rios play in their final seasons for the White Sox." Maybe it's Sale, Viciedo, Thompson or Hawkins, but we have to develop our own superstar-caliber player internally. We can't afford to go out and buy that player on the open market until the new local broadcasting contract comes up for renewal with a huge influx of new revenue.

Couldn't PD mean player development? We also got rings in the South Atlantic League when the team we worked for (August) won the championship in 2005. Mine says PR on the side of the ring....that was my job at the time, Director of Stadium Operations and Public Relations.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 11:05 AM) Life of Pi is the type of oscar favorite that makes people hate the oscars. I would think it's movies like The Reader, The Artist or The English Patient.....moreso than a redemption/survival story like the Life of Pi that is pretty much what modern cinema is all about now, taking a great book and figuring out a way to get butts in the seat with great cinematography and 3D/visuals. It's the type of story that is accessible to all ages and all intelligence levels, and has a universal appeal around the world. That said, it's not a GREAT movie, but a very good one. You have to give them credit, adding some additional movies (District 9 comes to mind right off the bat) makes for more intrigue. However, Life of Pi is a pretty big longshot after Lincoln and Zero Dark Thirty at this point.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 12, 2013 -> 07:47 AM) Then why can't the White Sox get a third baseman? Because he's learned not to get desperate and overpay in the offseason when everyone is looking for players. Keppinger will be fine for this season. Acquiring someone like David Wright or Headley would have been prohibitively expensive. And, in order to acquire that player, he'd have to trade a big part of the future away...so it becomes more of a "wait and see" year. Most would probably agree we're at least 2 impact players from being able to compete with the Tigers...

Last year, teams with the top 15 payrolls in baseball averaged 81.4 wins while the bottom 15 had 80.6 wins. In other words, money does not necessarily buy wins, or even guarantee a spot in the World Series. In the past 14 years that the Yankees have topped the major leagues in spending, more than a third of World Series finalists were in the middle or bottom third in total team payroll. Further, even if the Yankees shed enough salaries to get beneath $189 million, they will likely remain among the top five teams in that category. Currently, the Yankees are slated to be second in payroll to the Los Angeles Dodgers next year. "How many World Series winning teams the last 10 years had a payroll over 189 (million)? One," Steinbrenner reminded reporters as he left Major League Baseball's quarterly owners' meeting this week. The one team? The 2009 Yankees. www.yahoo.com/sports/mlb

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 07:57 AM) Some of this is the change in the structure of the league since 2007. In 2007, a guy hitting in the low .200's with 20 HR and good defense was a major liability. Offense has stepped back so much since then that the same production has gone from being a serious weakness in the lineup to a tolerable guy. Except Uribe for most of his Sox career was a .240-.260ish hitter. Like Crede, he consistently put up 20+ homers and 65-75 RBI's. Great at getting the runner in from 3rd base with less than 2 outs. Great defense. Plus plus throwing arm, the best the Sox have had except for Jose Valentin on the infield. Great clubhouse presence, one of the most popular teammates, bridged the gap between white, black and Hispanic players better than anyone in recent franchise memory....will always remember his smile, his love for the game and sense of humor, that's why everyone liked Buehrle and Ozzie Guillen (the player) so much, as well. In 2004, will also remember the Juan-O-Meter, when he was hitting nearly .400 for the first 2+ months and had about 10 hits in that crazy game we somehow lost to the Expos thanks to Willie Harris, started by our junkballing short lefty who was projected to be Gio Gonzalez by some and who ended up more like Jerry Kutzler.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) See, now THOSE are reasons! Marty, take notes. Fun to do Marty's job for him, haha. I'll add a few more. A) The fact that the White Sox haven't fully recovered from the Wilder/Dominican Republic scandal B) The fact that we've yet to see the full results of the more level playing field in hs/collegiate drafting (Hawkins, Beck and Barnum are super encouraging) C) The Cuban Connection D) See Item B in terms of signing international free agents E) We've managed to accomplish all of these things on the backs of "blue collar" players like Buehrle, AJ, Thome, Rowand, Crede, Jenks, Dye and Konerko who are more or less "anti-superstar" players...in other words, if we get our own version of Cespedes (likely it has to be Viciedo, Thompson or Hawkins), watch out! F) Presence of Don Cooper G) Loyalty of ownership group H) The fact that our new stadium was once considered the worst new MLB facility in the last 2 decades but we succeeded in the face of that obstacle I) Hardcore rappers, knightni, and many of the fans of the Step UP! franchise enjoy Sox merchandise J) For an added bonus, when you walk around Asian countries sporting a New Era Sox cap, girls think your cap actually says "SEX" and not SOX and it provides you the opportunity to explicate about White Sox baseball, haha

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) Because the Sox fan base is a subset of a metropolitan area with 8M people in it. That's a ton of people to draw from. But, only 1/3rd's or, at best, 40% of that same subset. And we've often acknowledged that 85-90% of the regional/touristic traffic coming for games goes to Wrigley. The Sox have gone a horrible job letting much of Indiana, Iowa and Wisconsin fall into the hands of the Cubs, Twins, Brewers, Cardinals and Tigers...partly due to WGN, partly due to their radio network. Compared to NY, SF/OAK and SoCal and those population bases, we're not nearly in the same position as the Mets or Angels. If the A's can ever get out of Oakland and that horrible stadium, they'll be able to compete more consistently as well.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 03:09 PM) Okay, let's go back a step. Why do you think the Sox fanbase is more of a sleeping giant than some average fanbase? 1) Chicago media market 2) Unique position of the team having ownership rights of its television provider and having the future ability to take advantage of the explosion in local/regional sports network contracts 3) Cross-marketing with the Bulls 4) Weakness of AL Central for most of its history with a few recent exceptions, but lower payrolls compared to AL East and West 5) Rich and long history of the franchise in Chicago 6) Television ratings are decent despite softer attendance 7) Team still quite profitable in terms of producing overall revenues

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) You're not going to accomplish it if you don't first build a team that has sustained success. Other than the Braves for 15 years, and the Yankees, and the mini-runs of Red Sox, Giants and Rangers, what examples do you have that would satisfy your benchmark? The Twins? The A's? The Mariners in the 90's and early 00's? Let's see. We have the Braves (whose fanbase is always compared with ours in being too spoiled and not even selling out playoff games), Yankees, Cardinals, Giants, Rangers and you'll probably try to include the Angels, although they clearly failed in 2012 despite adding the best player in baseball to their roster, the best rookie (and a Top 5 player) in Trout and the best LH FA pitcher in CJ Wilson. Ultimately, even the Rangers are having to tweak their roster (Hamilton and Young the first to go). So we'll leave it as the Yankees (duh, and it's not like their ROI is satisfying to 90% of their fans since the mid to late 90's), Braves, Cardinals, Giants, Rangers and the Tampa Bay Rays. No, we're not in the Top 20% or so.....but we're definitely not in the bottom 20-30% either. Over the last 15 years or so, the only season we became completely irrelevant was 2007, although you probably include 2009 (although the Rios and Peavy acquisitions would counter that) and 2001 as well.

I don't even understand the point of this whole thread anymore. It used to be that KW needed to be replaced. Now it's that ownership needs to be replaced. (Beats head against the wall). The only owner who would satisfy Marty is another version of Illitch or Arte Moreno, apparently, or the Dodgers' group. Even the St. Louis Cardinals throughout the past decade have operated on a pretty tight budget, compared to the way they operated in the 80's and most of the 90's. They didn't become huge spenders after McGwire's career went downhill, they became smarter and more efficient (see decision to let Pujols walk, which went against any type of conventional wisdom in the city that they would never let him play in another team's uniform). This thread should have been about what Hahn has or hasn't done, and how his style is different and whether it will work or not (nobody knows yet). And arguing about low attendance versus actual revenues is a different argument altogether, as the White Sox probably have the biggest disparity between their place in the attendance standings versus their place in the revenue/profitability standings, if there was such a thing. The best complaint is that the White Sox are in a difficult situation vis a vis the Tigers' current roster, so Marty is advocating that JR "double down" and go "all in" a second time in 3 years rather than playing it right down the middle and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle like 2008, 2010 and 2012 (for parts of those two years). The fear, and it's a legitimate one, is that the odds of spending our way into 1st place are much lower than "developing" our way into 1st. The main problem there is simply patience. But if you look at how we've done recently with how the Twins have done over the last two seasons, would ANYONE go back and trade places with Twins' fans from 2001-2012. Sure, they have had more consistent success, more playoff appearances, but they never won the World Series and they're in an even worse position than the White Sox going forward despite their new stadium. Maybe it's simply the frustration that the Royals' two decades long rebuilding process might actually bear fruit, whereas the White Sox, once again for obvious reasons, have failed to completely tear things down. Marty never brings up the fact that the White Sox are too loyal, but one of the reasons that the Sox have failed has been sticking with players like Contreras and now perhaps Konerko a year or two longer than they should have...but they've shown with Dye, Thome, Buehrle and now AJ that they're willing to move forward and are becoming more results-driven and analytical in their approach. Perhaps that means they do trade Alexei Ramirez instead of waiting for his value to dwindle further vis a vis his contract, or they part ways with Matt Thornton. But I think history might tell us when looking back in the future that the White Sox were both too loyal and simultaneously tinkered TOO MUCH instead of sticking with a team with chemistry and letting things play out over 2-3 seasons with the same same group. We were loyal to the core players, perhaps too loyal, but not enough to the other 15-18+ players on the roster. And for another example of looking at what the White Sox have been quite successful at avoiding, look at the example from the Pacific Northwest. See how well that once great fanbase has taken to year after year of rebuilding, or, more closer to home, the Indians.

QUOTE (qwerty @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 10:53 PM) Ever since I heard of The Sessions plot synopsis I thought it had a great chance of getting the lead actor nominate. Kinda shocked, as the Academy generally loves that sort of thing. They went the "stripper/sexual service" route with Helen Hunt, lol. Any formerly A-list actress who later in life finds a meaty role that requires shedding her clothes for art, such as Marisa Tomei in The Wrestler.

Sandoval, Semien and Grabe are huge reaches to even put in the major leagues as bench players at some future point. Barnum has a lot of power potential, but it's more likely to be at 1B/DH or LF, in all likelihood. Beck has as much of a chance to be a 3 starter as anyone currently in our system...and Johnson, who knows what we have with him, really? All things considered, you're more likely to see Thompson in CF and Hawkins on a corner, probably RF. Mitchell, Walker and DeAza are more prototypical LFer's, although DeAza did fine in CF (at least MLB average) the first 4-4 1/2 months or so, before losing some confidence, partly attributable to some of the injuries he was going through.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 09:42 PM) You should really tackle the cholesterol problem now, it's very hard to reduce. Yeah, you're right. Keep saying (to myself) when/if I get married again, hopefully I'll be at home more often and not eating out and living an unrepentant bachelor lifestyle, haha. I do try to eat as much dark chocolate as possible, that's one counterstrategy. The last time I had cholesterol checked, about 1 1/2 years ago, it was in the safe range still but getting closer and closer to the danger areas for LDL and HDL. Living in Thailand and China for most of the last four years, I think my diet's actually healthier than in the US, although I still eat at KFC, Pizza Hut and McDonald's way too much. And usually when I eat rice, it's fried rice (xiao fan, xiao mien) and noodles, so, once again, not as healthy as steamed.

Life of Pi, Lincoln and Zero Dark Thirty have to be the 3 favorites. Still have to see Amour, Les Miz, Silver Linings, The Master, The Sessions, The Impossible and Anna Karenina (most consider that film to be quite disappointing). Am also going to check out some of the documentaries (The Gatekeepersa, How to Survive a Plague, The Invisible War) and as many of the foreign films as I can find. A Separation, from last year, that's actually one of the movies that are on the list for our high school's IB Film final presentations.

QUOTE (floridafan @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 08:53 PM) Isn't Flowers strike out percentage in the high 40's? I thought I saw that somewhere. I would think that fanning that often would be a problem, regardless of position. You can't even move a runner over without making contact. What is it about 3rd that makes it so hard to fill? What kind of production would make you happy out of a 3rd baseman? Realistically? 10-15 years ago, during the steroid age, you could expect an 800+ OPS out of both 3B and SS (especially). Now, 2B has become more of a power position than even 3B, which is a bit strange since you normally think of 3B as bigger/stronger, typically. What you have to be happy with these days at 3B is anything above a 725 OPS. Morel's OPS was just atrocious, it's why the average for the entire season at that position for the year was around only 600, and Hudson didn't help matters, either. Everyone would be elated at this point if Beckham could put up a 725 or even 750. Keppinger's right in the middle of that range, although his defense is suspect (not unlike Youk or Teahen or Viciedo). I still wish we could go back for post 2008 and have figured out a way to keep Juan Uribe from eating himself out of the game....he seemed to be happiest in Chicago, although he lost his motivation a bit after 2005 (just my perception, maybe it's wrong).

From the perspective of teaching for 4 years in a couple of "inner city" high schools, the first thought that came to mind was of many of the single mothers out there struggling with the workload of having 2-3 jobs and also having to take care of kids... I'll never forget one of my students who said his mother never cooked anything for him and there was never even any food in the house, she just came home, shut the bedroom door and had sex with her boyfriend and ignored her kids after she got home around 8-10 p.m. at night, with the kids having no supervision from 3 pm until that time. What do you think unsupervised kids will eat? What's the average nutritional level of meals served in daycare centers that serve mostly lower middle class or poor parents? Just not having the energy, and perhaps some of it is knowledge about cooking/nutrition...some of it is ease of access and price/s of healthier fruits and vegetables, there are a ton of factors. I also think of how many of my former students had jobs involved in the fast food industry itself...and how many often ate there, because of ease/availability/cost issues. On a personal level, I have an absolutely atrocious diet. I drink 2-3 sodas per day. My cholesterol level is on the borderline of being a bit dangerous. My father died of a heart attack at only age 63...but I'm too lazy to change my diet or cook for myself. On the other hand, I usually walk or play badminton or do something physical every week, and I've never been above 190 pounds at 6 feet tall, so I keep telling myself I can put off making diet and nutrition changes to the time when I'm 50 years old or so (just like smokers think they can stop smoking at any time and reverse 75% of the damage)...that I can change eventually when I have no choice. Perhaps part of it is the idea at some future point I can go on cholesterol medication and that will take care of the problem. And the fact that I exercise quite a bit, enough to where I at least sort of believe it's keeping me "healthy enough."

The White Sox can do it if Flowers and Viciedo become consistent offensive forces (meaning legit middle of the order hitters). Ultimately, they might need to look at unloading Ramirez, Peavy, Floyd, Danks, Crain, Thornton, Rios and Dunn. Those are the obvious ones, and Sale will always be "you're damned if you trade him, damned if you don't" because of the ongoing injury concerns. KW lost out on both Jenks and Crede, but at least he didn't sign either of those guys long-term, either. Sanchez, if he can emerge as a Keppinger-like player with an OPS of 700-750 at any of the infield positions...that would be a huge help. If Sanchez can play a legit SS, and reports are that he's capable, then it's a BIT easier to find 2B/3B. All three of those infield positions are a challenge to fill offensively, at least compared to a decade ago, especially 3B. Offensively, Beckham was in the bottom decile/quintile all season long. The perfect outfield arrangement would be Thompson in CF, DeAza in LF and Hawkins in RF, with Walker and Mitchell currently on the outside looking in.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 07:07 PM) He brought up the Rangers bankruptcy, I guess as a defense of current ownership. If that's where he is setting the bar he has to be ok with ownership. I don't think he was saying that the White Sox management was great, just that your citing the Rangers as a model franchise isn't logical if you take their bankruptcy situation into account (how many Sox fans would be happy if the owners were forced to sell and the team was relocated...well, maybe a FEW, but not many) and the fact that almost all of their success has been recent, since the 2nd or 3rd year of the Daniels GM period. Like the A's example with Beane and the "three aces" (Mulder, Zito, Hudson), you can really look at their extreme luck with the Tex overpay trade AND the Josh Hamilton/Volquez move. But those types of talent infusions (at one time) only happen once every generation, if your team is lucky.

They went from Wetteland as closer and getting spanked a couple of times by the Yankees in the post-season for a LONG stretch without post-season play, mostly because of the M's and Angels. The fact of the matter is that the Rangers were in the exact right place at the right time with the bankruptcy and emerging out of that as one of the first teams to benefit as the revolutionary regional sports network tv contracts were coming up for renewal/s. Same thing with the Dodgers, although it remains to be seen a decade from now how foolish all that spending will have been and what the ROI will ultimately be.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 10, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) Are you happy with ownership? How many fans are happy with their team's ownership? Almost none. I do find it ironic that Anheuser-Busch sold the Cardinals in 2005 and they've won their two recent World Series titles since then, although not so many St. Louisians were complaining about the success of that franchise for most of the 80's, 90's or 00's.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:32 PM) And the Sox history proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. They did survive the strike and the White Flag, but barely. There were those late 80's and late 90's rebuilding movements. The legacy of those two events still hover over the franchise, though and are nevertheless an important part of the decision-making process, trying to avoid another White Flag II (see 2010 when they sputtered out of the gate, or 2007 when they could have ditched Buehrle, Konerko, Dye, etc.).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 04:28 PM) They shouldn't be in the middle. They should have either added $25-$30M to the 2013 payroll or cut payroll setting up for 2014 and beyond. Which guarantees what, exactly? Didn't they try this exact same approach heading into 2011, and how well did that turn out? They ARE setting up for 2014 and beyond by not trading away their entire league system for another hitter or signing Josh Hamilton, etc. They haven't traded away any of their young core players to this point, not even Beckham. (Yes, Alexei is another issue as Sanchez's progression could push him out in 2013 or in the following offseason). It's not simply a matter of adding money or having a magical threshold number, although the odds of being competitive are much higher at $100+ million plus, the A's disproved that by knocking off the Angels and there are numerous other examples (Rays, Twins) or counter-examples of wasted spending by teams like the Mets, Red Sox or Dodgers. The 2005 team had only a $65 million pricetag attached. It wasn't until our payroll began to bloat the subsequent year that the team lost its edge, largely due to chemistry issues (incorporating too many new players) and wear and tear on the pitching staff from being extended...and simply the Twins and Tigers being better.