caulfield12

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) You guys are very very smart baseball fans. Please answer this question for me: Do you agree that very early on, when Dunn and Rios showed they were not going to be crap and Peavy showed he was going to be the old Peavy, we could bury all the gloom and doom predictions of the preseason publications? Because of Peavy/Rios/Dunn, the Sox indeed were good enough to contend, good enough as the All-In team of the year before. Basically what we had was the same team as Ozzie's last team, hence the expectations in my mind became the same for both teams. Because of that fact, I became enraged that the team dropped 8 of 9 at the worst possible time. Had Oz been here engineering this year's choke job, many of you would certainly be as mad as I am right now. Why am I madder now than Ozzie's last year? I think I was so mad at Rios and Dunn that year, that they took the brunt of most of my anger. All my anger was directed at Dunn/Rios. This year it went to the entire team for what I felt was a collosal choke job. Danks went down to injury and was replaced by a pitcher who was on the Yankees' Florida State (Advanced A) roster a year ago in Quintana. Morel was injured and terrible early. Beckham was pretty bad offensively for most of the season. In one game, we used 8 rookie pitchers (KC) and STILL won. We had a rookie closer and guys like Jones, Veal, Septimo and Santiago (two other rookies) playing a key role for much of the season. Ramirez was just atrocious offensively the first 2 months of the season and never even got up to a 700 OPS. If he did, it was just for a few days, then he tailed off 100% at the end, especially with RISP. Youkilis, Dunn, Konerko, DeAza, Floyd, Danks and Crain were all injured at different points of the season. Sale, too. (I'm sure everyone remembers that week!) AJ was beaten up physically by playing way too much in the first 3-4 months of the season. We probably had one of the five all-time worst benches in the history of MLB. As Fathom has pointed out, that was a weakness that led to the likes of Olmedo and Hudson being played in key situations. Dan Johnson wasn't utilized until it was almost too late.

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:50 AM) Marty would feel better about Detroit if Verlander, Scherzer, Fielder, Cabrera, Martinez, and Jackson were 5 years younger. Scherzer is hurting. Peralta has no range. Dirks and Berry are rookies who will fade under the glare of the post-season spotlight. Boesch, Raburn and Delmon Young (for half the season) were huge disappointments. Valverde is fat, old and blew 5 saves. Dotel wasn't that good when he was with the White Sox. Benoit is erratic and inconsistent. Omar Infante would have led the AL in errors had he played all season with the Tigers. Avila is a one-year wonder. Laird's actually been their most dangerous catcher offensively in the 2nd half. Jackson still strikes out too much, etc. No Victor Martinez clutch hitting until 2013.

We could have finished with the same record as the Rays or Angels, and it would have felt a LOT worse than the feeling now. I would rather they be 8th and not really legit World Series contenders than feel like I did in 1994, 2003, 2006, etc. This one was disappointing because of how many days we led the race, but we'll get over it quickly enough. Are they all posting on their message boards...well, we finished with a better record than DET, but they're going and might even have the best chance to win it all of any team in the AL if they get hot offensively to go with Verlander, Scherzer and Fister.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) I don't agree with most of the rest of the post. Danks is a big liability until proven otherwise and Quintana maybe a #3-4 starter, the rotation is a mess. The teams talent base under 30 leaves a lot to be desired. If Beckham, DeAza, Viciedo and Flowers all play up to their abilities, no problems. Then you have Danks, Quintana, Santiago, Sale, Reed, Jones, etc. The bullpen, outside of Crain and Thornton, well, they're ALL young. Mix in 2-3 of Thompson, Sanchez, Walker, Mitchell, Hawkins, Barnum, etc., they'll be fine. Dunn, Peavy and Rios were HUGE liabilities this past offseason....and now they're not, to the point where Konerko might be our worst contract at the present, along with Danks until he proves himself again.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) Why do you pass judgement on posters? Don't feel so special, lol, you weren't the only one...if you paid attention to game threads the last 4-6 weeks. But I have to take Dick's side on this one, as much as it pains and galls me to do so.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) This was a fun season, best of both-veterans playing to expectations and youth coming out of nowhere to make us more than competitive. My hope is a philosophy change on pitching aggressively to these .230 and .240 hitters that seem to beat us every night. Maybe we should spend the offseason looking at what other teams do pitching-wise to get the Royals' batters out.

I can't believe that every thread will be brought down by the same conversation over and over and over again. It's almost as tiresome as imagining all the "if it weren't for those pesky Royals crushing our hopes and laying down at the end for Detroit" comments continuing unabated all off-season long.

Flowers and Beckham showed something offensively to instill hope in the 2nd half. Thompson (Trayce) made huge strides and became a legitimate #1 prospect. Same with Carlos Sanchez. I'm really worried about Reed, but we have a plethora of arms coming up that can replace him, theoretically.... Mitchell showed flashes, as did K. Walker, as well. We finally have some talent in our system. Most excitingly, Hawkins, Barnum and Beck. We have the flexibility to move Dunn or Rios perhaps for the first time, should we choose to go in that direction. There's a lot more to be optimistic about, despite the frustrating ending to the season. Maybe looking back on it, the worst thing that could have happened was pushing Sale and a couple of the other pitches into an injury in the post-season or sometime next year. Missing the playoffs might turn out to be a blessing in disguise, from an injury/health standpoint.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 08:43 PM) I think you are right. Tigers up 3-0 Our of elaborate playoff plans, the END. We'll never look into Max Scherzer's eyes, again, the end.

That's the season. BTW, Gerald Laird 10/16 against the crappy Royals pitching staff this year. Perfect example of why we're booking tee times right now.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 08:29 PM) I hate Alcides Escobar. He's a career .185 hitter vs the Tigers, and a career .950 hitter vs the White Sox 1/18 career against Porcello, not exactly Cy Young, coming into tonight's action.

Horrible call at 2B there. Thanks to the umpires as well in this game if they plate 2 more runs and Garcia ends the season more or less officially.

Thanks Royals, Crappy CFer Lough just gave the Tigers another run. Dropped a ball hit right at him. Got turned around. 3-0.

Peralta just homered off Chen. 1-0 Tigers. Will we survive to fight another day?

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 07:54 PM) Quintana as a reliever is a bad idea, especially given how slow he starts out games. I wouldn't be against starting him in AAA in order to limit his innings early in the year. That and his propensity for defensive miscues and brain cramps. You would never want him to do anything but start an inning...so he would be fighting probably for that long man spot with the likes of Axelrod, Castro, Rienzo, Leesman, Thompson, Sanchez, etc.

Now he finally finds the screwball (75 MPH). A week too late. Still throwing 95 MPH in the 7th inning, impressive start, has command of all of his pitches, nice rhythm going with AJ tonight.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 07:49 PM) Santiago needs to be in the rotation next year. His arm is too valuable to be in the bullpen. Agreed. You have Veal, Septimo, Quintana, Leesman, Santos Rodriguez. Moskos that we picked up from the Pirates. Would rather they invest Thornton's money into the 3B/C position.

Santiago has to be emerging as a favorite for the starting rotation in 2013. You have to wonder if they were to trade Thornton how Veal would do with the pressure and expectations on him, but it's worth it to clear $5 million in payroll space. Quintana could also figure into the LH bullpen picture as well. There aren't very many certainties other than Sale and hopefully Danks at the moment. Quintana, Floyd, Santiago...doubt Humber's back.

It would have been nice if they could have gotten those 2 out RBI's when we needed them the last two weeks. Well, better late than never.

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) Radar looks bad maybe an hour from now. Fitting end to the season. It could be a good thing. If the Royals could actually win a game tonight (Chen v. Porcello), some doubt might to enter their minds after the last sweep in KC. That said, they're on a 9-4 mini-tear and just swept through KC in four games in DET, so you can't imagine it happening...except for the fact that Verlander won't be pitching this series. And they torched him for 8 runs last time. AJ with 11 straight seasons of 1000 innings played. Probably best to part company with him instead of pay him based off this year's production, knowing there's a 95% chance he's going to decline going forward.

Whatever offensive magic we had the first 4-5 months is long gone now. Dead team walking. Playing out the string. Feels like the last game of the season, with the pace of this one.

Dunn struck out twice. Dunn and Youk 1st and 2nd in the AL in pitches per plate appearance, FWIW. One of the worst all-time Konerko at-bats you'll ever see. Looks like he has given up.

Can't say that it was surprising. Making Kluber look like Cy Young/Chen/Guthrie again. At least we get one more look at Santiago auditioning for the 2013 rotation. And it's still a meaningful game, for the time being.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Great great post. As it stands today the future looks very dim. That's as of TODAY. Things could change of course. Yes, and no, a lot for 2013 depends on Danks and Konerko. We have the flexibility to trade Dunn/Rios/Ramirez/Thornton/Crain/Floyd and go with more youth should we choose to do so. Trayce Thompson and Carlos Sanchez both made huge strides as prospects. If Thompson can succeed at the big league level, that will make up for a lot of the production we're going to lose. That said, 3B continues to be a huge worry (most are now leaning against the YOUK option, but would like to keep him SOMEHOW) and so does Tyler Flowers being the everyday catcher, DeAza playing CF again and Viciedo hitting RHers and Beckham being consistent ever again.

It's probably more of a collapse brought upon the offense by the rest of the offense putting the pressure too much on themselves to fill the gaping hole left by Dunn and Konerko for large stretches of the 2nd half. AJP cooled down and probably played too much the first half (his defense until a 2-3 game stretch recently was just about atrocious), Rios couldn't carry the team all by himself, Alexei forgot how to hit with RISP and Youk was beaten down by injuries and a mystifying inability to hit against the Tigers or hit on the road, period. Beckham and Viciedo were hot and cold, hot and cold, but never consistent performers for an extended stretch. We need Dayan to put up better numbers than Crede and Uribe typically provided to be a really good team. Then you have the fact that Peavy, Sale, Quintana and a lot of the rookies in the bullpen were pushed harder than they've ever been. One thing is clear. This team was gassed and while we could have hoped with our hearts, the likelihood of a 2000 or 2008 post-season was pretty high. Still, it would have been a better reward and gotten us an extra $5-10 million in revenue, more season ticket renewals, etc. That said, it's pretty hard to make an argument that we'll be better and DET will be worse next year. That's a large part of the disappointment and frustration, knowing this was THE best opportunity until probably the 2015 season. And those pesky Royals have to start putting it together at some point, pitching-wise.