caulfield12

QUOTE (MAX @ Sep 23, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) Two bad contracts won't kill this team if we have the right manager. Peavy has a buyout after this year right? Dunn or rios could bounce back to somewhere near their career average, but they won't need to if some of the young sox continue to develop. Ummm...no. The White Sox are going to be lucky to get to 72-75 wins if the same thing happens with next year's Rios/Dunn. For sure, they will tear apart the team at the All-Star Break this time around and start getting ready for 2013.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainmen...0,2815646.story Jonah Hill in Chicago, on throwing out first pitch at Sox game and Moneyball.

If you want to argue about Cooper, it has been the "regression" with Floyd and Danks compared to where they were in 2008. Chris Sale might have had the greatest improvement from first to second half of the season...and how many draft picks from 2010 are producing at his level (as pitchers) already in the majors? Santos, overall, still has to be a huge feather in his cap if you look at where he came from just 2-3 years ago. Then you get the other argument....that Sweeney, Getz, Anderson, Fields, Borchard, C. Carter, Brandon Allen, etc., never established themselves as legit starters after leaving the organization. Of course, that could just as easily be blamed on bad scouting/talent identification as anything to do with Walker in particular. Unfortunately, we'll never know what might have happened had Chris Young played at the major league level for us. And, to go along with what southside was saying...there haven't been any pitching prospects who were as highly-touted as Beckham as a middle infielder who experienced success and then completely fell off the face of the map under Walker. Rios and Dunn became two of the 10 worst hitters in the major leagues, and Beckham and Morel weren't far behind for most of the season. Dick Allen will argue that a higher percentage of payroll was invested in the starting rotation than the position players, but that's going to be the case with 75-80% of major league rosters, particularly the most competitive teams year-in and year out, like the Phillies, Giants, Rangers or Red Sox.

But shouldn't Tim Laker be more credited with DeAza's success than Walker? He worked with him in Charlotte (correct me if I'm wrong) for parts of two seasons...there's no way you could argue Alejandro has had more exposure to Walker than Laker. Contreras got hurt and got old. Not sure how to blame Cooper for that one. His career in NY was to the point where they had to subsidize a large part of his Sox salary. I would think if Cooper had someone like Dice-K Matsuzaka to work with next season and he won the Cy Young (just throwing out a hypothetical) that Cooper would deserve a ton of credit, yes? I also don't think it's especially fair to criticize Don Cooper for Jake Peavy this season...the guy's coming off a once-in-a-lifetime injury that's never been surgically-repaired (for a pitcher) in history. So who's to say that Jake and Cooper aren't absolutely maxxing out the best he can give? It's easy to say look at his 2007 stats in PETCO in a weaker hitting division (outside of the Dodgers) when he had a 95 MPH fastball and devastating slider. He doesn't have anything out there...for about 50-60% of his starts this season, just pitching on competitiveness and guile.

But that's only maybe 3 names. If someone wants to claim Morel or Lillibridge as great successes...you're welcome to assert that. We haven't even mentioned the likes of Matt Thornton, Jose Contreras, Jon Garland, Jenks, etc. Quentin was one of the DBacks' top prospects at one point. He wasn't to the level of a D'Angelo Jimenez or Julio Ramirez who was simply another busted prospect. And the thing is Walker couldn't take credit for building on that success or Quentin improving he staying at a level comparable to 2008. He regressed.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 06:02 PM) If you don't win the World Series, your team isn't successful.. So Ozzie and KW have both failed at this for the past 6 years...therefore, they should both be gone? Yes?

Well, it's probably just as likely that the Detroit Tigers are motivated by GM commercials starring Eminem than by playing the Chicago White Sox these days.

Greg, that's part of sports. TB rising up from obscurity as the "underdogs" (despite all their high #1 draft picks) to knock off the likes of the Yankees and Boston was/is a motivating factor. But why doesn't it work so well for Toronto and Baltimore every year? The Twins were almost wiped out of baseball by Selig. That certainly was a motivator when they were so good in 2002-2004. Now that they have a huge payroll (comparatively) and guys like Mauer making almost $30 million per year, nobody considers them the underdogs anymore. As to why the team plays so poorly at home and against divisional rivals, what's the only constant from 2008 compared to today? Guillen, Walker and KW. The roster has changed quite a bit over that time, but the results within the division haven't, nor has the 2nd half swan dive into the tiny bucket of water.

Who would play Oney? Joe Cowley? Jay Mariotti? Wilder?

QUOTE (The Critic @ Sep 22, 2011 -> 01:52 AM) First of all, "Red Wings" are two words. And secondly, NOTHING will ever hamper my awesome natural ability to b**** and moan! I do like many things, and the things I like I REALLY like, but there are way more things out there that I don't like. I chose The Critic as my name for just that reason - I knew that I'd be complaining and criticizing a lot more often than I'd be praising or rejoicing. EDIT: And I'll go see Moneyball as soon as a Billy Beane-led team wins some hardware - and an Oscar doesn't count. Does that mean you didn't enjoy Glory because the 54th Massachusetts Regiment lost the battle for Fort Wagner?

Moneyball has a lot going for it: glowing reviews are calling Brad Pitt​ a serious Oscar contender, adults are clearly hungry for Oscar bait (see grosses for The Help and Midnight in Paris) and activity on Facebook and Twitter shows a lot of promise. As of 3 p.m. PT, Fandango is reporting that Moneyball is responsible for 7% of daily sales. Look for Moneyball to grab $19 million from more than 2,900 locations during its debut frame. And $64 million for its entire domestic run. EBERT gave it 4 stars. http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.d.../110929999/1023

Greg, the MAIN problem SINCE 2005/06 is that we've just played average against our own division...or worse. With the exception of 2008. Playing in a weaker division SHOULD be an advantage. Except in the case of the Sox, we've actually played better against the Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers and Angels than most of the teams in our division with the exception of the Indians.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) How about teams that had blatantly unsuccessful seasons? - White Sox - Cubs - Twins - Orioles - Rockies - Padres - A's - Mariners - Mets - Astros - Reds Of this list, I'd say the two Chicago teams, Reds and Twins had the worst seasons with regards to big picture And Rockies... Not to mention the Dodgers (off-field and on-field), especially compared to the Torre years

At first when I saw the thread title, I thought one of them was arrested for doing crack, lol. I think the drafting issue was the icing on the cake. It's not far removed from the Wilder nonsense to give a kid who has no chance to make the majors that kind of a signing bonus. They never should have drafted any of their kids, period. Thome/Kotsay....then Dunn/Viciedo throughout this year, and the directive not to play the highest salaried guys like Dunn/Rios (of course, Ozzie was making BOTH of them look dumb by keeping them in the line-up, not sure WHO looked worse, actually....probably Ozzie by a hair).

QUOTE (farmteam @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) Here's a story that probably isn't funny to anyone but me. In Fall 2007, I was taking a Business Presentations class, and the prof knew someone in the film industry and could get her hands on scripts that were actually floating around the industry at the time (the assignment was to read the script and pitch it to the class as if they were executives wanting to buy it). So I read it, and thought it was one of the stupidest things I'd ever read. Then I found out Topher Grace was already connected to the project and it had been picked up and whatnot. Flash forward four years and it's in movie theaters and gets decent reviews (I think, haven't paid too much attention). Shows what I know. Take Me Home Tonight got decent reviews?

It's a joke we're even having this conversation. Putting up a 900+ OPS and we don't have room for him...because he's still give arguably what Pierre did in the prime of his career...but we do have room for Alex Rios, who everyone would thank their lucky stars if he even managed a 700 OPS next season.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:27 PM) Beckham has been hit 12 times. Quentin will help a team lead the category, but the Sox never retaliate. There was no question Konerko was drilled on purpose tonight and he was pissed about it. It would have been nice to dust someone after that. Might have saved Anorexei a bruise. And just think, his OBP is still well below 300 even with those HBP's.

He can put it on his resume/CV for Baseball Debate 101: Accumulation of Exponentially-Damning Evidence or Counterarguments Nullified.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:31 PM) But those 25% have an auto post complaining about someone reposting them, right? That's up to God, JR's God or Balta's God.

This is like one of those trainwreck versions of CHEATERS that you can't avert your eyes from...as inevitable as the denouement may have been.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:32 PM) I hope JR fires them both. Why does Ozzie deserve to stay? If the answer is 2005, then Kenny deserves to stay. The reason..........2005. And who was hitting coach then, hmmmmm, what was his name? Maybe we should bring back Everett, Blum and Bat Boy Hidalgo as well.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:26 PM) Just think if he leaves.. This place will have an entire new scapegoat to pin Kenny's failures on next year. Greg Walker will be the continued scapegoat for the SOX offense until every single position player from the 2009-2011 rosters is off the roster.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:25 PM) With new and improve statistical back up. Improved. Automatic grammar/spell-check to make Greg and my posts more coherent and brief/pithy. Condenses single paragraphs into a sentence.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:24 PM) I'll bet Kenny issued a mandate banning the drilling of the other team no matter what. But nothing was written on paper/e-mail/twitter, leading to a trail of plausible denial for KW and more headaches for the once again wronged Guillen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) I think we just have 2 guys, Quentin and Pierre, who stand very close to the plate Ramirez has been at times this season. I hope that Sale isn't working his way into the 2012 closer's role. That would suck.