caulfield12

Give Greg Walker a lifetime contract!!!! We're 18th in MLB runs scored with only two players in our line-up tonight with an OPS of over 700. How is that possible?

That's a good sign. Too bad he didn't manage to get another Grand Salami. June is close, Alexei's bat is back, sound like a familiar tune?

Kotsay almost all the way up to a 700 OPS, at .696 Still rather have Thome, of course, but he's done a very good job recovering and not just playing his way out of baseball after the slow start. I guess we should be amazed they're not 10-12 games under .500 though, with only 2 hitters at over a 700 OPS at this point (not including Andruw Jones, who's out of the line-up tonight and seemingly fading a bit).

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 21, 2010 -> 07:15 PM) Great pain free first inning my MB.. Wow, you really have an intimate relationship with Mark, lol. Like "oh, my Lady Gaga!!!"

Wow...two outs to start the game. Break up the White Sox! Every time I see Kotsay's name in the 5th spot, I think....is there any other major league club that would have him doing such a thing? Maybe the Mariners or A's in the AL?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 21, 2010 -> 05:57 PM) I will say KW for some reason was never given any responsibility with the Dave Wilder situation. That's one piece of history for which he should have had some accountablity. The prospects were suspects. He was paying way too much. Wilder was his buddy and he promoted him. That whole thing was really swept under the rug pretty well. I wonder if KW's star is still shining bright for JR. I know JR is very loyal but some bad teams, a scandal, and a payroll a lot higher than the results would indicate, may have JR at least questioning KW from time to time. Certainly Paxson assaulting VDN has to be worse, doesn't it? The Wilder and Dominican scouts situation was a bad (and embarassing one), but it doesn't come close to stacking up against what was going on in the Nationals' front office at that same time with Bowden and Jose "Blame It On" Rijo.

QUOTE (ptatc @ May 21, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) I don't think we are going to alot of player movement from KW. He likes his young players and will keep them. The only trading you will see is: AJ and PK because they will be free agents and he was going to let them go anyway. Jones if he is playing well enough to get the Sox anything. Jenks because KW really likes Santos. Garcia if he continues to do well. Pena, Linebrink, Vizquel should be gone but no one will want them. He won't trade Danks, Floyd isn't doing well enough with the contract to trade Peavy is being paid far too much with his current performance I really can't see him wanting to trade anyone else so there maybe 3-4 trades at the most. Pena's not going anywhere, he was acquired for Brandon Allen...those types of trades, KW doesn't cut bait on very quickly (until he's proven the wisdom of such a move)....Swisher was one of the big exceptions. If you look at all the success of former Sox hurlers around the league, it's not like the guy is chopper liver. He has a very nice arm. Maybe he'll never be the 8th inning RH set-up guy or even the 7th innning Dotel, but he's not the reason our ballclub is struggling. Just read the article. This is the dumbest article I have ever read. It's almost like he's channeling Mariotti, he has this personal vendetta to stir up trouble, he's been waiting all these months (and years) to write this dump on KW and Ozzie story, so the 16-24 record finally justified it. I supposed the biggest "revelation" (and I seriously felt like this was one of those TMZ "hit" pieces or one of the many written about Tiger Woods from November through February) is about Ozney's Twitter tweets and Ozzie simultaneously bolting the clubhouse (they day he had to fire his son) and finally Ibis talking to KW. Maybe there's something to the "rift" in the organization spilling over into a bad clubhouse environment. Maybe there's a split because of the coaches and FO staff that went out on a limb about Teahen and Pierre? Maybe there's also a split over what to do with Beckham and AJ/Flowers, too. I do think it's curious that Cowley goes out of his way to assign "blame" for the roster construction 96% on KW, and the 4% would be Mark Kotsay's spot (and him being retained over Thome, who apparently KW wanted to bring back and changed his mind about spontaneously at SoxTalk under questioning from the fans about the lack of offensive potential with the currently-constructed line-up). His mea culpa isn't owed to the media (especially), to the casual fans, to the message board world....it's owed to the season ticket holders, corporate partners/sponsors and JR. I don't think hearing it is going to have one scintilla of effect, to tell the truth. Will it make us go on a winning streak? Increase the walk up sales? This whole thing is silly.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,0,235334.story Changing his pre-bat intro song from "Your Love" by THE OUTFIELD to "Seek and Destroy" by Metallica.

QUOTE (SoxPride56 @ May 20, 2010 -> 09:57 PM) That's a good point. They might be trying to hard. There has to be something they can do to make them loose. Nick Swisher Blow-Up Doll Incident 2?

When is the last time we had a "real" brawl? With the Rangers? I was just thinking the same thing, that late April fight with the Tigers (the Jeff Weaver/Rob Fick/Juan Samuel one) really seemed to light a spark and ignite that team (and offense) for the next 3-4 months until they faded down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Was Konerko's ball in the first inning close to going out? Farmer claimed it would have been a home run if not for the win holding it up. At the time, it would have been a 3-2 lead, had AJ not made yet another typical White Sox baserunning blunder....at least very typical for 2009/10.

I can't even start a "half-fake" optimistic thread with the way things are going. On the plus side, there's no way to "paper" or gloss over these embarassing results, something has to happen, the season is too long and there's too much revenue to be lost to stand pat and just try to sell a false bill of goods to loyal/dedicated/committed White Sox fans for four full months.

Reasons to think MINN will come back to us...which also, of course, involve us playing better and the Tigers tanking a bit as well 1) Mauer has a bad heel (lingering problems) and only has 2 homers 2) JJ Hardy is hurt, forcing them to play Punto and Harris more often 3) Jon Rauch 4) Mauer always is a little "touchy" with various injury issues (see 1, had to stretch it out to ten somehow) 5) Liriano is coming back down to earth after starting 4-0 6) Carl Pavano can't really be relied upon for a full season, can he? 7) Nick Punto in the line-up at any time (like our Vizquel/Kotsay) 8) Kubel isn't as good as he has been the last couple of seasons, same with Denard Span 9) They don't have Valentino Pascucci at 1B 10) Because I don't want to be bored the next four months like July-September 2006 and 2007

Bizarro line-up for Charlotte. Hudson, Lucy, Danks, Viciedo and Kroeger...Flowers sitting again. I'm not sure which is more shocking, Donny hitting 2nd or Viciedo finally getting to bat 4th, when they've had him in the bottom of the order (5th-9th) in BIRM and CHA. Lucy down to .258.

There's no reason for this move at all. He's the last player (5th starter) on a team like the 2003 White Sox that puts us over the top, but not a building block or franchise cornerstone like Aroldis Champman, Dice-K or Strasburg.

It was done at the suggestion of the new reality show producer in order to build more drama into this season's early malaise and ennui. Like when Jeff Probst on Survivor tries to get the contestants to go after each other on Survivor in Tribal Council.

Hamilton has unlimited talent, almost. Ethier's a pretty talented player as well, he doesn't run like Barry Bonds with the early 90's Pirates, but he's a pretty nifty player. TWO WEIRD TWINS NUMBERS Morneau with only 2 homers (heel problem, Target playing really big) Only 9 errors committed by the Twins Red Sox will play the Phillies more this season than the Twins...how does that make any sense? Well, with how Boston has been playing, maybe we don't want MIN to play them so much.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2010 -> 04:50 PM) Some examples from this year of a rapid, successful retooling based on a couple intelligent moves appear to be the Tigers, who rebuilt their bullpen and rotation and freed up salary that they used to sign Damon by trading away Granderson and Jackson, the Padres who are now competitive in the West after dumping Peavy's salary, and perhaps the Blue Jays who dumped Halladay and Rios and look better this season than last at this point. You can argue "Yeah, those are extenuating circumstances" in every case...each team has gotten production from guys not acquired in those deals in helping them step up, but it's a workable formula. Another one I should have thought of before editing this post was the Rockies, who dumped Holliday and rode that deal to the Wild Card last year. The Tigers also brought into "new blood" in Perry, Porcello, Boesch (that guy's like Beckham in 2009, maybe better, but a defensive nightmare), Sizemore (2B), Raburn, Clete Thomas, Josh Anderson (I know he's gone now), Austin Jackson, Scherzer, etc. It helped that they let Lyon/Rodney go and were able to find the money for Valverde, as well. Hey, at least we helped make the Padres competitive by developing Clayton and Garland, lol.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 04:46 PM) Let me let you in on a little secret which I keep repeating but you continue to miss: EVERY TEAM HAS HOLES with the possible exception of the Yankees/Red Sox! Stop establishing some nonsensical baseline that the White Sox should measure up to that only the two wealthiest teams in the league can. The teams that win are the ones that guess the best in the offseason and at the trade deadline and end up having those holes filled. But nearly every one of them is gambling in some respect that someone will step up. It happens every year, and you can point to these players who come out of nowhere with a career year, or a huge second half, or a huge postseason, etc. WE WILL NEVER HAVE AN ALL-STAR CALIBER PLAYER TO FILL EVERY POSITION/ROLE ON THIS ROSTER. Accept that. It's not a straw man argument. You and others are advocating a theory or model which is impliedly better than the one we are utilizing currently. I am simply looking for some past history of success that this model has. Show it to me. With the ferocity with which many are arguing for a rebuild, one would think the examples are everywhere, just waiting to be plucked out of the annals of history for all to see. As for your question about our current model, look at 2005. Kenny did something very similar to what he did this year as well as in 2008. He retooled the roster using smart acquisitions in sectors of the market which were undervalued. Jake Peavy, Alex Rios, Tadahito Iguchi, Alexei Ramirez, Carlos Quentin, Andruw Jones, Jose Contreras, etc., these are all examples of this. It doesn't work every year obviously, but it has worked. Well, then I'll play along. You build your team around dominant starting pitching and upper tier farm systems and let the chips fall where they may. See Atlanta Braves, Oakland A's, Marlins, Twins, Padres about 5 years ago You build with money and retool on the fly. Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Mets, Dodgers (until McCourt divorce fiasco) You take even an riskier route and build around dominant offense: Cleveland Indians from 1994-2002 You follow an organizational philosophy of attacking and strong fundamentals, let opponents beat themselves: Twins again, Angels Not sure how to classify the Cardinals, they're the one franchise I think does the best job overall (considering budget limitations), but then they don't have to share a city. Minnesota's right up there with them at the moment.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) MacDougal and JD have zero to do with next year's salaries, those hits have already been taken. We're probably looking at committed salary in the $80-$85 million range after arbitration hits for Quentin and D1: the throwing Danks. And in terms of next year, Jenks and AJ are gone. Linebrink, Pierre, and Teahen all earn basically a pittance, less than $5 million; even if they're just part time players, that doesn't hurt you. Hell, even AJ sucking really doesn't take that much of a hit, because he's still a fairly low salary. The problem happens if all of those suck...and then you combine that sucking with one of the other 2 big contracts, and then you have no young guys producing to make up the gap. You've nailed the 2 real big contracts there though. Buehrle and Peavy. Those guys eat up nearly $30 million between the two. Don't forget Jenks at almost Papelbon numbers without being close to the same pitcher as the Red Sox have... That's almost $40 million tied up in 3 underperforming pitchers. That's your black hole right now. Granted, our offense sucks raw eggs.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 19, 2010 -> 02:32 PM) Well, we're going to have to disagree then. I happen to think a core of Rios/Beckham/Quentin/Peavy/Danksy/Floyd/Mark is about as good a core as you can ever expect to have unless you're the Yankees/Red Sox/Cubs and can spend $150 million. If you compare those 7 players to the rest of the league, I think it compares favorably to just about any other roster in baseball. As for the Tigers, I'm talking about their willingness to draft players who demand overslot money. Taking guys at 23rd who are legitimate top-10 talents goes a long way towards developing from within. How do you think a team like the Red Sox is able to win every year AND build strong farm systems? Being the optimist, throw in an offensive force at C in Flowers (let's say he becomes like a Napoli), Viciedo (Cabrera Lite) at 1B, Hudson (as a quality 3-4 level starter)and Mitchell doing a Carl Crawford imitation, then you REALLY have something good. I was going to stretch the point to Morel and Trayce Thompson, but that's pushing it a bit.

Winston Salem getting 3 hit and shutout. Brandon Short with one of the three...average at .385 now. Doyle (L, 0-1) 6.0 7 4 3 1 6 1 4.50

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2010 -> 02:21 PM) Really, those are the 3 players you think we most need to trade? At this point, I'm not sure why I should care. If they can't pull off a winning streak before June 13th, I definitely won't care about AJ being gone and replaced by flowers, and if they can't get anywhere close to the race by mid July, why should I be angry about trades that hurt this year's ballclub? Yes. Obviously Kotsay and Vizquel and Nix and Castro and Williams will go before them... We have no choice but to wait out Pierre and Teahen and see what they can do. I'm fine platooning Nix/Teahen. We have to hope Pierre can get his average back to the 275-290 mark at least. Linebrink is beyond worthless. He's just occupying a roster spot and eating up precious dollars that could have gone to Damon, Matsui, Guerrero, Orlando Hudson, Thome, etc. As for point 2, we might end up below 2 million in attendance and finish 22nd-26th in the majors in that category. It's JR's call, though...it will be interesting to see KW try to blame the fans for not supporting his lousy work product (AGAIN).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) I think it's worth noting that the combined annual costs of all the screwups you mention are less than the annual cost of Alex Rios, for example. If you're going to screw up and overpay somewhat for guys that fill holes that you have on your team, but you keep that cost down to a couple million per player per season, that really isn't going to be the reason why you lose if you have a $100 million payroll. And this is precisely the issue. KW has ZERO margin for error now. Add up MacDougal's and JD's buyouts, those 3 contracts....we're looking at an $85 million - $90 million payroll next year, agreed? Even with Jenks, AJ, Konerko gone...we have other salary escalators built in. If you want to look at the biggest per dollar invested failures, then you have to point at Buehrle, Peavy, Jenks, AJ and Linebrink, with Teahen and Pierre pulling in the rear end of those underperformances per contract dollar. Beckham, Quentin and Ramirez are still bargains. No doubt, many many hitters could be outproducing them, though.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 19, 2010 -> 02:03 PM) There's one other way to work it. Steal a piece or two with a couple of solid trades this year before the deadline to add to the list of Viciedo, Hudson, and Flowers, and then use the $15 million or so you have left to plug the remaining gaps. Really, there's no getting around requirement 2 though. But who do we have to trade that wouldn't hurt this year's ballclub, arguably? That list is limited to possibly Jenks, Garcia, AJ (if Flowers can be the offensive force SOME project and not kill us defensively), Andruw Jones (assuming KW could find another hitter out there to replace him), JJ Putz, Nix, Castro, TMK and Vizquel. The players we most need to trade in Pierre, Teahen and Liney are the 3 hardest to trade without just eating most of their contracts financially. Trading Floyd, Beckham, Quentin or Ramirez is beyond insane. I suppose you can make an argument to somehow trade Buehrle, Konerko, Danks, Peavy or Rios and get back 2-3-4 players (spreading the money out like we did coming into 2005)...that makes some sense. But that would require Viciedo stepping in right now for Konerko, for example. Same thing with Flowers or Hudson, maybe you do it and cross your fingers they light on fire like Beckham and that Beckham also reverts to form. Something has to change, that's for sure. Either players or coaching staff. FWIW, we'd need to get back a 3B and a #2 or leadoff hitter, IMO, along with a LHR reliever or just "general"quality arms for rotation/pen.