caulfield12

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) Yeah, since I never say that I think Theriot does a great job of hitting tough pitching and always starts late rallies for the Cubs. He's a bad fielder, but I don't think Alexei is very special over at SS either. Give me the guy who makes consistent contact, and isn't a liability for the first two months of the season. Do you also want Erstad/Mackowiak/Byrnes as your OF, Aaron Miles/Getz at 2B and Bobby Hill/Kevin Orie/Gary Scott at 3B? JUST JOSHING YOU. (Who's that other Cubs' "grindy" 2B/3B who was so good in 2008 but has faded since then?) Joking....I will always go with the better athlete with the potential to be a difference maker at a premium position. Alexei carried the Sox for two months in 2008, he can find that form again imo. To be an elite or dominant defender and combination of speed and power. And he's in the prime age years of his career. And he has a bargain-basement contract that affords our payroll some breathing room.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:16 PM) They're right there. But I'm looking at RIGHT NOW. Not potential. And not "IF" so and so is healthy when they haven't been for multiple years (Putz, Zumaya). That's why I think it's the Dodgers. ' Zumaya, for all his 99-101 heat, often becomes a one pitch pitcher. Wasn't it Swisher who tagged him for a loss....he's crippled when he gets behind in the count and walks too many. They also lost Lyon and Rodney had filthy stuff when he was on. Perry's talented, but I can't say I would project him to be remarkably better than Pena or Santos. He throws HARD (93-97), but not like Zumaya. If Zumaaya was THAT good, wouldn't they have given him the closer's role? Mentally, Zumaya is a bit soft, he reminds me of Carlos Zambrano for some reason, very fragile guy emotionally. Up and down rollercoaster with him, even moreso than Jenks. Valverde>Jenks (slight edge) Thornton kicks Phil Coke's ass and hands it back to him effortlessly (BIG ADVANTAGE) Fu-Te Ni>Williams (but still like a healthy Threets showing moderate command) Ryan Perry=Putz (when healthy, I'd take experience and overall arsenal of JJ in a heartbeat) Zumaya=Santos (I would only trade for Zumaya if Cooper was my pitching coach) Pena>Eddie Bonine (not close on talent) Linebrink>Brad Thomas (LHP, not as familiar with Thomas, but Linebrink two seasons ago was best RH set-up guy in AL for 3 months) In summary, Cooper working with Zumaya, Perry and Valverde...good results! Having Zumaya and Ryan Perry would be tempting, for sure, for Hanging with Mr. Cecil Cooper. But Zumaya has always been something of an underachieve, like Matt Anderson.

Thanks for the report, very thorough. What stands out about Morel and his approach at the plate? Who does he remind you of, in terms of his stance? Sanchez's offensive stats stick out so far, and Ozzie did play him a little bit in the spring, but he falls into that Gartrell/David Cook category in the organizations' eyes. What did Shelby look like defensively in the OF? Which pitcher, from the naked eye, had the best raw or pure stuff?

Can you turn it into Jon or Kal (Kalvoski) Daniels? Joking...

So who would rather have Theriot as that starting SS over Ramirez? Any volunteers. I will never, ever say that.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:40 PM) Jonathan Broxton might be the best non-Rivera closer in baseball. George Sherrill would be closing for at least a dozen other teams. Hong-Chih Kuo when healthy is basically their Matt Thornton (with a little less velocity on his FB). Throw in Belisario and Troncoso and the Dodgers pen is better with fewer question marks. Broxton=Santos (projecting, it's a premature reach, but I'm being optimistic today) Sherrill=Putz (when JJ is healthy) Thornton is the best LHR in baseball now I'd take my chances with Liney and Pena over Belisario and Troncoso.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:35 PM) The only thing that makes him like Buehrle is working fast and being lefthanded. The guy isnt very young and isnt all that talented. How many LH pitchers in baseball throw 93-96 MPH AND are starters? It's a list that is very short. Granted his optimal role is still probably out of the bullpen

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 01:58 PM) You do when he has Jenks' track record, you have no better in-house options, and your bullpen outside of Thornton is pretty much terrible (nobody could've foreseen a converted SS becoming our best bullpen arm this winter). Better to pay Bobby year-by-year than to throw a $10M+ multi-year deal at somebody like K-Rod and hope that he doesn't blow his arm out. I don't want Bobby around next year, but bringing him back this year was absolutely the right thing to do. NO. I was referring to the fact that very few teams would trade for him at that salary. An elite team doesn't take the risk unless their closer goes down and there's nothing else available on the market, that's the only way. Maybe the top 3-5 payroll teams could do what the Mets did and make Putz set-up, or the Cubs with Zambrano. But they're not going to give up much in return young talent-wise.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) No you are not getting it. I agree that nobody was super upset those guys you listed were sent packing. However, these Mariners fans appear to be extremely glad Thornton was traded. But the real point is how good Matt became. None of those guys you mention became all that successful to make anyone eat their words that they were traded. In contrast, any Mariners fan would be a fool to not want Matt back. Aardsma would be on our roster. Masset would be long man, in Carrasco's underrated role, and spot starter. Cooper could keep working w/ him. I would start Uribe as much as Ozzie plays Vizquel, who's 10+ years older and washed up. Swisher would be DH or sharing time in the OF with Andruw Jones. Matsui/Damon could also be signed with all the money we're using on Rios. I think he had a pretty good year overall last year, you disgree? Willie Harris could be doing better than Pierre for a fraction of the cost. So could Ryan Sweeney.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) Joe Crede played 90 games after leaving Chicago and is out of baseball this season. Mike MacDougal did save 20 games for the Nats last season, and he impressed so many people that hes not in the majors this year either. What has Orlando Cabrera done since 08 that he didn't do here? Ummm, winning a 2009 ALCD championship ring, perhaps?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) That would be the Dodgers. With Linebrink's experience as an elite set-up man...Thornton, Putz (if he gets the zip back on his fastball, which will take at least another 2-3 months in all likelihood), Santos, Pena and then Threets (if healthy), I wouldn't trade our mix of experience, youth and raw stuff for the Dodgers' pen. No way. Not because I'm a White Sox fan first, just because I think our pen is better. Stick their pen in the AL East and see what happens.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:14 PM) Swisher's hitting .228 with a .348 OBP in Yankee uniform now. Jack Cust got Cut. And no one claimed him. Branyan has played in 4 games this season. Swisher 2009, please. What players in our starting line-up have a 350+ OBP right now? NOT VERY MANY! Probably Jones, Konerko and MAYBE one more. Cust would get some of Kotsay's AB's, like the Matt Stairs role, what Thome does in MINN now. Branyan was always a streaky (think Richie Sexson) hitter and the back problems, but you'd rather have Kotsay? You're sure?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) Alexei has been in the league 2 years, and has hit .290 and .277 in those 2 years. Theriot is a career .290 hitter. In his first 2 seasons, he hit .328 and .266 consecutively. Theriot's worst average month in his career is Sept./Oct, where he hits .254, while he typically hits 70 points better in April/May. Perception is more important than reality. And Theriot's a scrappy grinder. Alexei is a "mental midget" who some have described as having ADD/ADHD or a learning disability. But every GM in baseball would take Alexei over Theriot, for sure.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:05 PM) Let's not bash Teahen and lump him with Alexei thus far. Mark is batting .277 with a cool .393 OBP. I guess this is the Moneyball Teahen Billy Beane wanted. It would be ironic...but with Nick Swisher in NY Yankees form, our offense could be much more balanced and end up in the top 5-6-7. Or a healthy Xavier Nady. Or Matsui. Or Thome. Or Dunn. Or Cust. Or Branyan. Or Damon. Or any high power, high K, high OBP LH or switch batter.

And yeah, Pods/Iguchi has to be replicated by Pierre/Beckham. That's nowhere close to happening. And so that's a BIG reason for optimism, if those guys can get going, along with Paulie/Jonesy/Rios/Quentin/Ramirez....this team could be very very dangerous. It's the rose-colored glasses optimism. On paper, this offense with Jones and Rios as dangerous threats trumps 2005. But they're nowhere close to a 3.61 ERA....Floyd and Peavy have been hot messes and the bullpen pitches great in Carrasco situations and not so well in tie games or when it's +/- one or two runs. But with the exception of Williams, we have the most talent of any bullpen in the majors, IF IF IF Santos is for real and doesn't fall off the Aardsma/MacDougal cliff the first time or so he gets rapped around and gives up some crooked numbers in pressure situations.

And I think this would be borne out by a career OPS/OBP comparison with players in our starting line-up over their careers, versus the MLB/AL averages and also our rivals in MINN and DET. You can't argue with the back of Thome's and JD's baseball cards. Andruw Jones, same thing, but that was then, this is now...Kotsay, Vizquel, etc. All of those steals (tied for first with Rays), bunts and homers have gotten us one of the 10 worst records in baseball. That said, there's reason for optimism with Floyd/Peavy rebounding....as I keep saying, it all comes down to AJ/Teahen/Pierre hitting their norms, and then determining WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE after two inconsistent seasons with CQ and Alexei. Both those guys were borderline superstars two years ago, particularly CQ, but how good are they? What would or could they fetch in trade from another organization? For example, if you're Daniels in TEX, would you trade Josh Hamilton for CQ? Probably not. Both are fascinating because there are so many divergent opinions. Alexei has an amazingly attractive contract, wonderful physical tools, speed, plays a premium position, hits for power...but he's lacking in baseball IQ, has mental lapses and horrible OBP, not unlike Angel Berroa, comparing him as ROY to what he became later. We all know about Quentin. Is AJ going to rebound or is he OLD? Same with Pierre? And Paulie's no spring chicken, either. And what the heck is going on with Beckham? He's gone from Chase Utley Lite to Chris Getz with better defense. I think the pitching will be fine...as Thunderbolt is always saying, we're on a wing and a prayer that Alexei, Quentin and Jones are their "best selves" from seasons past, same with Alex Rios (that's looking better than better for now at least) and that Paulie, AJ and Pierre don't go south simultaneously. Teahen just needs to be a 725+ OPS guy and not hurt us TOO MUCH defensively. In other words, better than Wilson Betemit, Josh Fields, Chris Snopek or Greg Norton. We'd love to have Randa, Uribe, Kouzmanoff, Headley or Herb Milkman Perry numbers out of him though. BUT, not really expecting.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) are you really comparing willie harris to matt thornton?? of all those guys you list, i think the only ones who we would consider regretting are aardsma and rauch. You're not getting it. Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control. One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders. All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons. Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) I think you're probably wrong about 2/3 of your list Caulfield. Which of those players were you demonstrably upset about their leaving and not saying "good riddance" to basically?

Agreed 100%. You have to consider where Gavin Floyd came from to get that contract. Yes, he got a boatload of money when he was originally drafted so high, but his career was bordering on the abyss. If you have the chance to guarantee the financial future of your entire family, it's hard not to sign that contract, after everthing he'd gone to battling back. When we acquired Floyd, look at Sox message boards, they weren't exactly optimistic and overly hopeful. Everyone knew he had the raw stuff and ability, it was the mental part of the game that was dragging him down. Floyd arguably has the best stuff (overall) on the staff, but Peavy, Danksie and Buehrle are all better PITCHERS. Danks was getting low-balled by KW (just like he has done in the past with Garland, rightfully so), so Danks basically took the risk and called him on it. As someone else pointed out, barring an unforeseen injury, that decision will make him look the opposite of Juan Gonzalez during down the Tigers a decade ago or O-Cab testing Free Agency.

But, to be fair, we were saying the same things when we jettisoned: Nick Swisher O-Cab Aardsma (although we seem to have his number as an M's closer) Rauch Masset MacDougal Juan Uribe Joe Crede Willie Harris ETC. Yes, Thornton turned out great. Just like the acquisition of Marte around 2002, both became arguably the best LH set-up guys in baseball for 2-3 years stretches w/ the White Sox.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb Interesting stuff.

That's THE question with Viciedo now. Undoubtedly he will be shaky at 1B, he's not LH, he's too short to spear a lot of errant throws by Teahen and Ramirez and his hands aren't so soft. He doesn't have Brandon Allen's athleticism, basically. He has one plus tool right now, his bat. Unless you count arm strength at 1B....maybe he will go the SANTOS route, lol (or Jason Dellaero/Brooks Kieschnick). He would have to put up an 850 (minimum) to 950 OPS to justify his contract and starting job. What are the odds? It's the same discussion with Danks...can he legitimately put up a 725-775 OPS playing premium level defense at the next level? The odds seem better for Danks putting it together than for Viciedo, but things can just click and a player will just take off, like Thornton after one session with COOP. Same thing w/ hitters. Rios was DEAD, Beckham and Peavy were THE men among boys. Look at them now...baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" sport, always has been, always will be. NOBODY thought Jones would play this well, nor does anyone realistically expect it to continue the entire season, right?

Bring back Swisher!!!! Joking. I mean, I bought into the hype too....and then disengaged a bit. I was even thinking he could make the team in 2009. It was the Alexei Ramirez Effect! I should have known when we spend more than $5 million on amateur talent to watch out....of course, Borchard is the only other time we did that. Better when we find players like Dye, Santos, Jenks, Quentin, Iguchi and Ramirez that are more "known entities" flying under the radar. Well, maybe the last two would be considered reaches by other organizations, that's why KW has gotten the reputation he has, for leaving no stone unturned because he has no choice with our dearth of legit prospects. It's also how you end up with the likes of Aardsma, Sisco, Grilli, Masset, MacDougal, Floyd, Danks, Rios, Teahen, etc....KW COLLECTS FORMER FIRST ROUNDERS that he couldn't afford to sign when they were originally drafted by other teams.

KW is a gambler...maybe this one doesn't turn out well (big-time pitchers at that time frame in career with huge contracts RARELY pay off), but you have to admire the effort and desire to win. It's rare that we have invested that much in a pitcher outside our organization. You have to go back to David Wells or Jaime Navarro, I think. And Wells was only a one and done deal, not a HUGE long-term commitment of present and future dollars. But then you look at ZITO, he's gone from the worst contract in baseball to MEH, enough to make a valuable contribution to SF.

YET, reading the tea leaves with the "firing" of Boras and the future of his brother in the organization...LV odds would be 60-75% or so that we can keep him in his first or second year of FA, that's my guess, based entirely on conjecture and anecdotal evidence. I just think back to Contreras, Garcia, AJ, Jermaine Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, etc. We find a way to keep the most important players....when it really comes down to it, very few of them can escape KW's BIG BOARD to another organization unless he and JR want to cast them adrift (like Ordonez/Lee/Robin Ventura/Fisk/Durham/Foulke/Valentin/Big Hurt/Crede). Undoubtedly, Jenks is living on borrowed time. So is AJ's White Sox career.