caulfield12

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:09 PM) Joe Crede played 90 games after leaving Chicago and is out of baseball this season. Mike MacDougal did save 20 games for the Nats last season, and he impressed so many people that hes not in the majors this year either. What has Orlando Cabrera done since 08 that he didn't do here? Ummm, winning a 2009 ALCD championship ring, perhaps?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:15 PM) That would be the Dodgers. With Linebrink's experience as an elite set-up man...Thornton, Putz (if he gets the zip back on his fastball, which will take at least another 2-3 months in all likelihood), Santos, Pena and then Threets (if healthy), I wouldn't trade our mix of experience, youth and raw stuff for the Dodgers' pen. No way. Not because I'm a White Sox fan first, just because I think our pen is better. Stick their pen in the AL East and see what happens.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:14 PM) Swisher's hitting .228 with a .348 OBP in Yankee uniform now. Jack Cust got Cut. And no one claimed him. Branyan has played in 4 games this season. Swisher 2009, please. What players in our starting line-up have a 350+ OBP right now? NOT VERY MANY! Probably Jones, Konerko and MAYBE one more. Cust would get some of Kotsay's AB's, like the Matt Stairs role, what Thome does in MINN now. Branyan was always a streaky (think Richie Sexson) hitter and the back problems, but you'd rather have Kotsay? You're sure?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) Alexei has been in the league 2 years, and has hit .290 and .277 in those 2 years. Theriot is a career .290 hitter. In his first 2 seasons, he hit .328 and .266 consecutively. Theriot's worst average month in his career is Sept./Oct, where he hits .254, while he typically hits 70 points better in April/May. Perception is more important than reality. And Theriot's a scrappy grinder. Alexei is a "mental midget" who some have described as having ADD/ADHD or a learning disability. But every GM in baseball would take Alexei over Theriot, for sure.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 03:05 PM) Let's not bash Teahen and lump him with Alexei thus far. Mark is batting .277 with a cool .393 OBP. I guess this is the Moneyball Teahen Billy Beane wanted. It would be ironic...but with Nick Swisher in NY Yankees form, our offense could be much more balanced and end up in the top 5-6-7. Or a healthy Xavier Nady. Or Matsui. Or Thome. Or Dunn. Or Cust. Or Branyan. Or Damon. Or any high power, high K, high OBP LH or switch batter.

And yeah, Pods/Iguchi has to be replicated by Pierre/Beckham. That's nowhere close to happening. And so that's a BIG reason for optimism, if those guys can get going, along with Paulie/Jonesy/Rios/Quentin/Ramirez....this team could be very very dangerous. It's the rose-colored glasses optimism. On paper, this offense with Jones and Rios as dangerous threats trumps 2005. But they're nowhere close to a 3.61 ERA....Floyd and Peavy have been hot messes and the bullpen pitches great in Carrasco situations and not so well in tie games or when it's +/- one or two runs. But with the exception of Williams, we have the most talent of any bullpen in the majors, IF IF IF Santos is for real and doesn't fall off the Aardsma/MacDougal cliff the first time or so he gets rapped around and gives up some crooked numbers in pressure situations.

And I think this would be borne out by a career OPS/OBP comparison with players in our starting line-up over their careers, versus the MLB/AL averages and also our rivals in MINN and DET. You can't argue with the back of Thome's and JD's baseball cards. Andruw Jones, same thing, but that was then, this is now...Kotsay, Vizquel, etc. All of those steals (tied for first with Rays), bunts and homers have gotten us one of the 10 worst records in baseball. That said, there's reason for optimism with Floyd/Peavy rebounding....as I keep saying, it all comes down to AJ/Teahen/Pierre hitting their norms, and then determining WHAT DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE after two inconsistent seasons with CQ and Alexei. Both those guys were borderline superstars two years ago, particularly CQ, but how good are they? What would or could they fetch in trade from another organization? For example, if you're Daniels in TEX, would you trade Josh Hamilton for CQ? Probably not. Both are fascinating because there are so many divergent opinions. Alexei has an amazingly attractive contract, wonderful physical tools, speed, plays a premium position, hits for power...but he's lacking in baseball IQ, has mental lapses and horrible OBP, not unlike Angel Berroa, comparing him as ROY to what he became later. We all know about Quentin. Is AJ going to rebound or is he OLD? Same with Pierre? And Paulie's no spring chicken, either. And what the heck is going on with Beckham? He's gone from Chase Utley Lite to Chris Getz with better defense. I think the pitching will be fine...as Thunderbolt is always saying, we're on a wing and a prayer that Alexei, Quentin and Jones are their "best selves" from seasons past, same with Alex Rios (that's looking better than better for now at least) and that Paulie, AJ and Pierre don't go south simultaneously. Teahen just needs to be a 725+ OPS guy and not hurt us TOO MUCH defensively. In other words, better than Wilson Betemit, Josh Fields, Chris Snopek or Greg Norton. We'd love to have Randa, Uribe, Kouzmanoff, Headley or Herb Milkman Perry numbers out of him though. BUT, not really expecting.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 02:45 PM) are you really comparing willie harris to matt thornton?? of all those guys you list, i think the only ones who we would consider regretting are aardsma and rauch. You're not getting it. Things didn't click with Matt in SEA. Nice guy, great attitude, easy repeatable, stress free delivery and 60+ arm, no control. One session with Cooper, he's nails. Sometimes the change of scenery works wonders. All of the players I listed....VERY FEW posters were super upset they were leaving (Swisher, maybe...from a talent lost perspective, but he simply had to go)....all those guys had success after leaving for various reasons. Point is, KW is not always right. But 75% isn't bad.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) I think you're probably wrong about 2/3 of your list Caulfield. Which of those players were you demonstrably upset about their leaving and not saying "good riddance" to basically?

Agreed 100%. You have to consider where Gavin Floyd came from to get that contract. Yes, he got a boatload of money when he was originally drafted so high, but his career was bordering on the abyss. If you have the chance to guarantee the financial future of your entire family, it's hard not to sign that contract, after everthing he'd gone to battling back. When we acquired Floyd, look at Sox message boards, they weren't exactly optimistic and overly hopeful. Everyone knew he had the raw stuff and ability, it was the mental part of the game that was dragging him down. Floyd arguably has the best stuff (overall) on the staff, but Peavy, Danksie and Buehrle are all better PITCHERS. Danks was getting low-balled by KW (just like he has done in the past with Garland, rightfully so), so Danks basically took the risk and called him on it. As someone else pointed out, barring an unforeseen injury, that decision will make him look the opposite of Juan Gonzalez during down the Tigers a decade ago or O-Cab testing Free Agency.

But, to be fair, we were saying the same things when we jettisoned: Nick Swisher O-Cab Aardsma (although we seem to have his number as an M's closer) Rauch Masset MacDougal Juan Uribe Joe Crede Willie Harris ETC. Yes, Thornton turned out great. Just like the acquisition of Marte around 2002, both became arguably the best LH set-up guys in baseball for 2-3 years stretches w/ the White Sox.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb Interesting stuff.

That's THE question with Viciedo now. Undoubtedly he will be shaky at 1B, he's not LH, he's too short to spear a lot of errant throws by Teahen and Ramirez and his hands aren't so soft. He doesn't have Brandon Allen's athleticism, basically. He has one plus tool right now, his bat. Unless you count arm strength at 1B....maybe he will go the SANTOS route, lol (or Jason Dellaero/Brooks Kieschnick). He would have to put up an 850 (minimum) to 950 OPS to justify his contract and starting job. What are the odds? It's the same discussion with Danks...can he legitimately put up a 725-775 OPS playing premium level defense at the next level? The odds seem better for Danks putting it together than for Viciedo, but things can just click and a player will just take off, like Thornton after one session with COOP. Same thing w/ hitters. Rios was DEAD, Beckham and Peavy were THE men among boys. Look at them now...baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" sport, always has been, always will be. NOBODY thought Jones would play this well, nor does anyone realistically expect it to continue the entire season, right?

Bring back Swisher!!!! Joking. I mean, I bought into the hype too....and then disengaged a bit. I was even thinking he could make the team in 2009. It was the Alexei Ramirez Effect! I should have known when we spend more than $5 million on amateur talent to watch out....of course, Borchard is the only other time we did that. Better when we find players like Dye, Santos, Jenks, Quentin, Iguchi and Ramirez that are more "known entities" flying under the radar. Well, maybe the last two would be considered reaches by other organizations, that's why KW has gotten the reputation he has, for leaving no stone unturned because he has no choice with our dearth of legit prospects. It's also how you end up with the likes of Aardsma, Sisco, Grilli, Masset, MacDougal, Floyd, Danks, Rios, Teahen, etc....KW COLLECTS FORMER FIRST ROUNDERS that he couldn't afford to sign when they were originally drafted by other teams.

KW is a gambler...maybe this one doesn't turn out well (big-time pitchers at that time frame in career with huge contracts RARELY pay off), but you have to admire the effort and desire to win. It's rare that we have invested that much in a pitcher outside our organization. You have to go back to David Wells or Jaime Navarro, I think. And Wells was only a one and done deal, not a HUGE long-term commitment of present and future dollars. But then you look at ZITO, he's gone from the worst contract in baseball to MEH, enough to make a valuable contribution to SF.

YET, reading the tea leaves with the "firing" of Boras and the future of his brother in the organization...LV odds would be 60-75% or so that we can keep him in his first or second year of FA, that's my guess, based entirely on conjecture and anecdotal evidence. I just think back to Contreras, Garcia, AJ, Jermaine Dye, Konerko, Buehrle, etc. We find a way to keep the most important players....when it really comes down to it, very few of them can escape KW's BIG BOARD to another organization unless he and JR want to cast them adrift (like Ordonez/Lee/Robin Ventura/Fisk/Durham/Foulke/Valentin/Big Hurt/Crede). Undoubtedly, Jenks is living on borrowed time. So is AJ's White Sox career.

Let's not ever start sucking each other off!!! Please, no! Not even for another World Series. Only 2005 would have been debatable for me to stoop to those lengths....!!!! To preserve "OUR" championship. LOL.

SS, the longer we wait, the higher the price tag...every start, he becomes more and more expensive to retain in the future. Just like Andruw Jones...but we'll worry about that bridge being crossed in August/September undoubtedly. Combine that with uncertainty over Peavy/Floyd and Mark Buehrle's pronouncements you ABSOLUTELY have to keep him, like the Twins did with Mauer, although I'm not going to say they are quite equal...Mauer's a once a generation hitter....Danks is one of the top 3-4 lefties in all of baseball, but you get the point. And yes, there's a extra 10-20% premium because of his age and being left-handed and not a soft-tosser by any stretch of the imagination when he's on.

You don't take Clayton Richard, who only looks better because he's in the NL, over a Cy Young award winner. You just don't....it's high risk, high reward....but having a rotation of Richard/Hudson at the back end isn't going to do it for 2-3 years. We don't have time to "develop" our young pitchers, they usually have to produce right away, simple....we're not a rebuilding organization, never have been under KW, never will be under KW, period. The point about financial flexibility, though, is very valid. You can come up with 100's of theoretical rosters with Richard/Hudson and allocating the money from RIOS/PEAVY to about construct much deeper/stronger overall teams, like we did in 2005 when we divested ourselves of Ordonez, Lee and Valentin to spread the money out over a broad swath of veteran components.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) HOF? now thats kinda silly If he continued for the last 8-9 years of his career, what he did in the first 8....definitely. I don't know how old you are, but he was an absolute beastly monster on the mound before he got hurt seriously and lost his stuff.

Angels' 3B perennial prospect/non-performer now nearing Dallas McPherson status, Brandon what's his name? Walk can fix him. Trademark/patent pending.

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Apr 26, 2010 -> 10:15 AM) Yeah no need to rush him just yet. If he has a good first half maybe he can move as he is one of the better young lefty prospects in the system. Thing is TB I don't see when the Appalachian league starts. Or if he needs to repeat it. Usually it's right around the week or so after the amateur FA draft in June....

Has anyone seen Santos Rodriguez pitch this season? How legit are the reports on his stuff? Projectable path to majors in a Boone Logan/Radinsky way, or very long term, year by year? Any thoughts?

Didn't the Cubs try to do the same thing with Kerry Wood and they gave up trying? Kevin Appier, very ugly/violent motion, same thing? Eventually injuries ruined his career, the first half he was a borderline HOF track...

We have a long history with Wilson (and also Padilla, although he's gone now finally)...he made quite a few comments that really got the White Sox riled up when he was in their bullpen. What did he say exactly? Maybe it was somehow connected to the Sean Tracey incident, or a separate one?