caulfield12

Yes, Steve. But weren't the same things said about Nick Swisher and Alex Rios??? Why were we so atrocious at home? Can anyone explain that, especially after 2008, and historically, when it has been the opposite. If anything, I worry about a player like Teahen (just like Ramirez/Uribe) thinking they're sluggers at USCF, adjusting their swing and popping up a ton of balls (like Crede or Thomas) to the outfield. Of course, Hawk will be there with his "just missed it, dad gummit" comments now and again, but it won't change the end results.

How many times have the White Sox come back and beaten Nathan (the game you referenced)? It happened once last year. There was another game Carlos Lee homered off him (must have been 2003 or 2004) at USCF to tie the game but they ended up losing eventually if my memory serves me correctly.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:45 PM) I think we need some more offense. Losing both Dye and Thome lessens our offense and I don't see where we have added anything in the offensive category. The idea of a DH by committee has some magic ring to it, but the realiity is you need bats to drive in runs. I don't see the improvement with what we have added and that includes Rios. The best we will possibly have is Rios maybe matching Dye powerwise. He hasn't shown much for awhile now and this hype about his last ten games of 2009 means nothing unless he can do it over 162 games in 2010. Andruw Jones and Vizquel are on the down side and are role players. Kenny Williams is kidding himself if he thinks different. I am interested in seeing what develops out of ST, but it had better be something. What would the Vegas odds be that Alex Rios ever puts up a 30 or 35 homer season for the White Sox? I would imagine they wouldn't be too good. I think 18-24 homers is a lot more likely. Heck, I would take 20 and call it a day and hope that Quentin returns to AL MVP form or we're cooked.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:41 PM) I like this. Pierre Beckham Quentin Konerko Jones/Kotsay Rios Pierzynski Teahen Ramirez I think the DH spot and Pierzynski are interchangeable. Ramirez should bat 9th to start the year, since he's been terrible in April his first two years. If you hit Ramirez AFTER Pierre and Juan actually gets on base, that will force our opponents to throw him more fastballs, which he feasts on (just like Uribe). Alexei made adjustments in mid-season to the curveball, but you stick Ramirez down at 9th after Teahen, they'll just throw him a steady diet of junk and he'll get himself out more often than not. Heck, they will pitch around him to face Pierre and retire him, then Beckham would be leading off with nobody on base, which isn't the best use of his talent and ability. In that case, you might as well just bat Pierre 9th, Beckham first and Rios/Ramirez 2nd. AJ and Teahen back-to-back doesn't make very much sense when they're your two best LH power hitter, and Kotsay should never be hitting 5th. That Mark Kotsay "logically" could be hitting fifth one-third of the games tells you all you need to know about this year's offense.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:34 PM) Maybe you're not understanding. You used message posts as a guage for how much more valuable Joe Nathan is over Bobby Jenks. I'm telling you that it's crazy to do that considering there were many, many posts/calls/emails from people wanting Mark Buehrle sent packing because he was having a bad year and because a significant amount of people thought he was done. It doesn't matter if it was a regular Sox forum or postgame threads, it was still said. And it was said repeatedly. And, of course, those people changed their minds because they didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Therefore, I would be careful with using a message board as evidence of a player's value. No, I used 10 years of listening and watching to the Twins, almost as many as White Sox games. I could pull out and quote all the individual save/opportunity stats, 7th inning leads blown, 8th inning leads blown, blown saves for the bullpen overall. We just have a difference of opinion. You are "selling" the company line that the White Sox bullpen has enough pieces that COULD BE GOOD, even without Dotel and with JJ Putz's health uncertain (such as Pena and Linebrink), that it makes the margin between Jenks and Nathan at the end of games minimal or negligible. I disagree, respectfully. I think everything flows backwards from the closer and Joe Nathan can make a "meh" bullpen committee look better than it really is and a shaky reliever can turn great set-up guys into... Let's just put it this way, when Joe Morgan made his remarks about the White Sox having one of the great bullpens in 2008, you knew his hyperbole would eventually come back to bite him. Both him and KW. We'll see how determined Jenks is to get his career back on track again in 2010.

Finally saw "In the Valley of Elah," thought that was a great film, and I'm not even a big Tommie Lee Jones fan. Paul Haggis is great. Up in the Air, I can't really say that's the best picture of the year either, the ending leaves you feeling a bit empty (yes, it fits with the character of Ryan Bingham, I get that), it's just not the "feel good" story that explains Slumdog Millionaire or even Avatar. It's Complicated was okay, lol....I'm not going to say it was hilarious, it is interesting to reflect on Alex Baldwin going back to his Jack Ryan and "Malice" days and see how his career has evolved into comedy acting. I thought Steve Martin was quite good in an "understated" (for him) role. Actually, Coraline was better than It's Complicated, although I would honestly give the Best Picture Award to UP. They did it with Beauty and the Beast, but it probably won't ever happen again. Here in Thailand, I have to watch most movies through the internet or pirated versions...I managed to find 1/2 of THE HURT LOCKER and I was blown away by Jeremy Renner's performance but I can't say that's clearly the best movie either. Now having 10 movies in the best picture category makes things even more fractured with so many possibilities.

The sad thing is that 20 years ago, saying something like that would have been unthinkable or unimaginable. The Royals under Kauffman were always one of the "model" franchises in the game of baseball. Most younger fans don't remember how good those 70's and 80's ERA Royals teams actually were, they just think of them like they do the Pirates, Nationals, Marlins (minus the two World Series titles), Padres, etc.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) No, caulfield, they were ready to throw him out of town because he was having a bad year. There were numerous people that were so upset with his underperformance that they would say things like, "if he wants to play for the Cardinals then go ****ing play there!" Trust me, it was out of anger, it wasn't out of prudence. People weren't thinking about the draft picks. They were mad because he stunk that year. Yeah, I think Beckham will hit 2nd. It's back to the same argument again, the "snap/angry/speak first and think later" tenor of a call-in show or post-game thread versus calm, reasonable, logical thinking about the White Sox. Anyone who has watched Buehrle's career from the very beginning, from the tarp slides to the deer hunting with Crede to the World Series and family stage of his life...they've never undervalued his importance to this team and franchise. On paper, after you get past the won-loss record, quite a few people prefer the "flashiness" and repertoire of a Javy Vazquez or even Gavin Floyd. Strikeouts are more exciting than maximizing pitch counts, keeping the infield defense on its toes and working fast. And yeah, when Buehrle doesn't have it, he does occasionally just get absolutely rocked, but more often than not he battles hit butt off out there. Just like Greg Hibbard used to do. I also think MOST Sox fans have a lot more forgiveness and patience for ANY of the members of that World Series-winning team. No matter how bad things got with Jose Contreras post 2006, those four months in 05-06 were enough for me to forgive anything that happened consequently, including KW's signing him to a contract extension that went 1-2 years too long. The White Sox can't afford to be sentimental very often (it's a business, after all), but when they have acted in that way, it was to keep players like Konerko, Buehrle, Dye, AJ, etc., in the fold. If AJ or Konerko don't perform well this year, I won't be clamoring for them to be traded or waived either, although I'm sure some of the younger fans or those with shorter memories will be quicker to cut them adrift.

Mark Loretta might come out of his one-day retirement to DH for us. Ozzie and KW deserve this public relations backlash for putting themselves in this situation in the first place and then trying to positively "spin" the fanbase to accept it as the best option when that's clearly not the case in anything but Bizarro World/Twilight Zone.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:59 PM) Beastly and CubsSuck1 spoke well of them, too. Which makes it all the more strange that someone can have this alternative personality on the internet. I'm sure if his career is anywhere near the intensity of his rants he is living successfully somewhere. Just like the Unabomber or Rush Limbaugh, lol. They're both pretty intense and like/d to "rant and rave." That's the scary part about reading boards on-line about religion or politics these days. It SEEMS there's so much more racism and hatred than ever in the United States. If it's not directed at foreigners or immigrants, it's religious intolerance. I think the Secret Service must be going crazy these days with all the threats, real and imagined, being made against Obama. I guess it goes back and forth...the lack of respect from BOTH sides just exacerbates and polarizes the situation even further.

QUOTE (35thstreetswarm @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 12:31 PM) I am imagining you writing this while chained to a bed in the remote mountain cabin of your "number one fan." Tell JimH it is more effective if you read the statement on videotape. It was funny, I was thinking something had happened to Fathom too....his quotes there were very "warm" and close to emotional, lol. But, OTOH, it's really sad too, it reminds me whenever I see these types of threads about ncorgbl and his "reign of terror" over at chisox.com 7-8-9 years ago. He liked to challenge people to meet and constantly was digging up personal information, making comments about my wife, etc. With all the illegal guns out there, with the lack of privacy on the Internet, with so many making themselves vulnerable through Facebook and Myspace pages, it's shocking there isn't more "Internet related" violence...and it's really hard to know what people are "bluster" and which ones really are capable of "snapping" and doing real harm.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:37 PM) I think it's a mistake to equate Teahen and Uribe in the hitting department. They aren't the same hitter, and I would be really surprised if Uribe does again what he did last year. That was insane for him. At any rate, I'd see Teahen hitting 7th. Rios I can see anywhere from 5th-6th. AJ might be hitting 5th. But who knows, anyway. There could be 6 forms of that lineup. Which means you now have to hit Beckham, Ramirez or Kotsay/Vizquel second, right?? Uribe has been around seemingly forever, but he's only 3 years older than Teahen, 31 (he still is 30 right now) versus 28. Uribe put up an 824 OPS, which is something Teahen has never done. So the argument is that Teahen SHOULD overachieve but Uribe will never repeat his 2004 and 2009 seasons because of what exactly? If anything, you're just guessing...it's not unlike saying Mark Kotsay will be better than Alex Rios/Thome/Dye based on August/September of 2009. Heck, we're basing our hopes for leadoff hitter on an uncharacteristic flash of brilliance from Juan Pierre in LA that looks like it could be an outlier versus his career trends and age. I just hope that JD and Thome don't put up huge numbers for either the Cubs, Twins or Tigers...I can just see the series of Phil Rogers and Cowley articles inundating the papers and Net if that comes to pass.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:17 PM) First, I didn't say Jenks was as good as Nathan. What I said was that the difference between the two, within the context of the entire pitching staff, is not great enough to give the Twins the overall edge. The Sox will win more games based on the overall pitching than the Twins will...probably a lot more I have a difficult time thinking that. You may also want to slow down on the Nathan-to-the-Hall-of-Fame talk. Easy there. I also wouldn't take internet posters' willingness to let Jenks walk as an indication of how good he is. That's absurd. I bet it was at least 50% of the internet posters (I've been reading for a while) that wanted "Buehrle's ass shipped to St. Louis" after his '06 season. The follwoing year they were threatening to never come back if the Sox didn't re-sign him. You're a Cardinals fan, you certainly understand why that talk has existed seemingly every year. It was more a matter of if we couldn't keep Mark Buehrle around here long-term, maybe we should try to get something from the Cards' minor league system...the next Lance Johnson, Vince Coleman or Willie McGee would look nice in our line-up if we could get Sherman and Peabody to turn the Way Back Machine 20+ years. Or Terry Pendleton to play 3B. White Sox fans have always loved Buehrle more than any player with the posssible exception of Konerko/Crede/Thomas for some, it's just that they didn't want to become TOO ATTACHED and be heartbroken at some point when/if he bolted for St. Louis. Nobody was too upset when Jon Garland ended up in Southern California as predicted for 5 years, but Buehrle is a different situation entirely.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) Yikes. Glad that wasn't me. It's just on overreaching statement to make. I know I said this earlier, but I do think it's possible for one player to carry a lineup for a short period of time, but it's difficult to do for a full season. I also think one player can break lineup if that player was expected to carry the load. For example, if for whatever reason, Pujols just falls apart (unlikely), St. Louis would be in trouble. But if the guy hits 8th in the lineup and plays good D, you most definitely can win with him because he is more dependant on the rest of the lineup then they are on him. That's the point, Teahen SHOULD be the 8th place hitter, but he WON'T be. Unless you want to jam AJ into that 5th-6th-7th spots, which puts us right back into the same situation of having Quentin (if he's not 100% on the bases), Konerko and AJ needing 3-4 hits in a row to score them. Juan Pierre shouldn't be the leadoff hitter, Alexei Ramirez shouldn't be hitting 2nd, etc. Pierre Ramirez or Rios Beckham Quentin Konerko AJ Teahen or DH or Ramirez/Rios Ramirez or Rios or Teahen/DH See 7-8 Realistically, I have no idea where the heck to stick an Andruw Jones or Kotsay in the batting order. They should be 7th-9th, but who knows with Ozzie Guillen. I guess we will be the first AL team to have a DH hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order in 2010. Can we really afford to go from 2nd through 5th in the batting order (assuming Jones is in the line-up) with all right-handers? Then where the heck do you hit AJ? In front of Pierre? If you stick Ramirez or Rios down the very bottom of the order, that's crazy too. If you have Teahen and AJ back-to-back, that's stupid. Chris, what is your batting order at this point? I guess if you think Teahen will hit 8th, it goes like this. Pierre Rios Quentin/Beckham Konerko Beckham/Quentin AJ DH Teahen Ramirez Still too many righties in a row, and you're giving Pierre, Rios, Jones/Kotsay, AJ and Teahen more at-bats than Alexei Ramirez. That's bad. It's also bad to have Rios making megabucks to bat 7th-9th, which is realistically where he SHOULD be based on the last two seasons. But somehow I have a feeling either Andruw Jones or Kotsay will be getting a lot more AB's than they should (by definition, I guess since neither SHOULD be in the line-up, that will be true no matter where they end up hitting).

Did anyone see where Toby Hall signed a contract? In other news, the heady Mark Loretta retired, but not until after a full-court press by Ozzie and KW to make him a part-time DH and final piece to the puzzle in our bid to win the "versatility SABR standings" team award. Unfortunately, KW also forgot to try to include Mark DeRosa, Joe McEwing, Rex Hudler and Jose Oquendo on his off-season hit list. So Vizquel, Teahen and CJ will have to suffice for now.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:42 PM) Again, you could do this for every team in baseball and find potential flaws for multiple players to make them X-factors. There is every reason to think the players mentioned will give seasons up to their normal capabilities. I don't consider them X-factors. You may, but I don't. On your last point, Rios can always shift to a corner if necessary. He's done it before. But onto the bolded statements. I think you consider the Twins a potential playoff team, correct? You then equate Brendan Harris to Mark Teahen (and I agree, that's being generous, but not to the guy you think), yet you say Teahen couldn't start on most playoff teams. There is nothing worse than "playoff teams can't have _____ as a starter" arguments. It's baseball, yes they can. People used to say the same thing about Juan Uribe. You can look at just about every playoff team every year (except the Yankees, because their worst infielder was Robinson Cano) and you can find a starter that you might consider a bum. It's just a poor argument. IT can happen and it does happen. I disagree on the Twins bullpen, because the Sox have a pretty solid 3 on the back end. And while Nathan is a very good closer, I don't think that he's so much better than Jenks that it makes that much of a difference. The overall pitching (from top to bottom) for the Sox was far better than what the Twins put out there last year, and on paper, it hasn't changed in the Twins favor this offseason. Someone already brought it up, but I'll reiterate. Juan Uribe was pretty much a Gold Glove shortstop (premium position on the field) who was ALWAYS good for 20+ homers and 70-80 RBI's. It's not a surprise to me that he was rated higher by MLBtraderumors as a more desirable FA than Jermaine Dye because of his versatility. Yes, the Twins have won with the likes of Nick Punto, Doug Mientkiewicz, Rivas, Koskie, Tolbert, Casilla, Lew Ford and Jason Tyner (thank God they don't have Bartlett still). That's the whole point, the White Sox in 2005, the Twins over the last decade....they had superstars or All-Star as part of their core to carry those players. Sure, Juan almost never walked, never hit as well again as he did the first half of 2004, but that guy could do the little things that didn't show up in the box score defensively, he saved a ton of runs with his arm and he and Crede were clearly "clutch" go-to guys to get that run in with a baserunner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. It seemed to me he was like an RBI magnet in those situations. Teahen is a so-so defender at a corner infield spot. And no, Brendan Harris shouldn't be a starter at 3B for the White Sox either...and Morel isn't ready and neither is Viciedo. As far as the Twins' bullpen, they added Rauch and there's a 50/50 chance they'll have Liriano and/or Neshek down there at various points of the season. We subtracted Dotel. Unless Pena, Linebrink or Dolsi do something amazing like Cotts and Politte, we're not close to the 2005 or even 2008 bullpens. Comparing a future Hall of Famer (if Nathan keeps it up for 3-5 more seasons) with Jenks, you're pushing it. I didn't read many threads where the Twins were threatening to non-tender, waive and/or trade Nathan this past-offseason. I would guess 25-35% of the posters around the Internet were ready to just waive Jenks and use that $7.5 million in other creative ways. Now if JJ Putz returns to dominant form, you'll have a strong argument. But that's like saying if Jeff Nelson and Jose Paniagua returned to prior form, they would have made big contributions to the White Sox. Oooops, hyperbole. LOL. If nothing else, watching the Twins' bullpen change from Hawkins/Romero/Guardado to Rincon (yes, steroids helped, lol) to Breslow/Mijares/Reyes, etc., they've always put out a decent pen up there. Although with Crain and Guerrier in recent years, they weren't outright dominant like the 2002-2004 pens were that you KNEW you were done if you went into the 7th inning trailing. Just compare the Twins blown leads from the 7th inning on since Nathan became closer over there...you'll find most of them in 08 and 09, but the bullpen comparisons fall short for the White Sox holding leads compared to the Twins for every season BUT 2005.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 12:14 PM) I disagree with this assessment of Mark Teahen, as someone who has watched his career for a while now. Mark Teahen is a very talented player who has enjoyed only limited success in the losing environment of Kansas City. He has performed far below his abilities and I think is as prime a candidate as any to benefit enormously from a change of scenery. Of course, he would be a bench player in New York or Boston because they are loaded, but if you view Los Angeles (LAD or LAA) or Seattle or Texas or St. Louis as playoff-type teams, I don't think you put him in the "bench player" category. Personally, I think he will be a solid starter here. We'll see. I lived in Kansas City from late 1996 through 2005, and then 2006-2007...so I've seen plenty of Royals' games firsthand or on the local network. Many Royals' players have succeeded during those lean years despite the "culture of losing." Jeff Montgomery, Kevin Appier, Carlos Beltran, Mike Sweeney, Jermaine Dye, J. Damon, Jose Rosado, Soria, Greinke, Joe Randa, DeJesus, etc. Heck, even Carlos Febles and Rey Sanchez have looked really good for seasons, not to mention Angel Berroa at SS. Maybe the "culture of losing" argument can be applied to the failures of all their first round draft picks, including Alex Gordon, but I'm not buying this argument entirely...largely because he's not going to be allowed to be a "complementary" player like Geoff Blum in Chicago, he's going to be hitting 5th, 6th or 7th, and that's what scares me. Yes, he had one torrid half-season, but the rest of his career has been pretty pedestrian for a corner infielder, to say the least. If you look at what we've gotten from all the Royals' castoffs over the last 10 years, it hasn't been a great "plus" overall. Of course, that's not a surprise, really. Just like it won't be a surprise if Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Getz and Pods disappear from the baseball world within 2 years. Getz has a chance to hold on as a utility player somewhere, but not in a starting role for very many teams.

But once every 15 times Thome went up to hit for the Sox last year, he homered. His average was .249 with 23 HRs and 74 RBIs in 345 at-bats before being traded to the Dodgers, where he languished as a pinch-hitter. Had he stayed in Chicago the final month, his numbers likely would have been better than the AL average for DHs — 26 HRs, 89 RBIs and .255 average. That's a 39-year-old, above-average designated hitter worth inviting back. In a platoon role as DH against right-handers, the Sox could have expected more pop out of 300 at-bats from Thome than the other possibilities combined. And if the Sox want to think as big as their starting pitching rotation allows them to think, who do you want batting sixth in Game 1 of the AL playoffs next October: A guy approaching 600 career home runs or Mark Kotsay? With a straight face at SoxFest, Guillen worried what bringing Thome back might mean to potential playing time for Kotsay, Andruw Jones and Omar Vizquel. That's like worrying if you still will have room for the steak after the salad. Reliable veterans Kotsay, Jones and Vizquel give Guillen the luxury of a deep, experienced bench every contender needs. But in 645 at-bats in 2009, they totaled 22 home runs and drove in 80 runs. That's not enough oomph for an American League team that plays in a ballpark requiring it. David Haugh/Chicago Tribune

There will be players available later on if it doesn't work out. Every single year Williams makes a mid season addition. Does SoxTalk not understand that concept? Further, do they not understand that Williams aims higher than guys off the scrap heap? Do they not understand there will be guys available later that aren't now? But then again, there never has been any accountability over there ... for certain people anyway. I don't want to get on the "hit" list for future attacks, but why not? LOL. Jenks Dye Thornton Contreras Alexei Ramirez Tadahito Iguchi Pods (especially the 2nd time) Griffey, Jr. Alomar Erstad Politte Hersmanson Takatsu Everett MacDougal Aardsma Sisco Quentin Loaiza Thome A. Jones Vizquel Kotsay Damaso Marte J. Nix Ross Gload Arguably, all or most of those players were either pulled off the scrap heap, injured, undervalued or unwanted...isn't the whole point of being an MLB GM to do that? Outside of David Wells and re-signing our own players like Buehrle, Konerko, Dye, AJ, etc., I can't think of very many times we've paid "market value" or above for a player. Ooops, there's always Alex Rios, although by definition he was really on the scrap heap. Or Todd Ritchie, more "scrap heap" material who had a couple of non-pressure/pedestrian NL Central seasons and morphed into a 3rd or 4th starter in our rotation magically. Nick Swisher is the only other example where we paid "top dollar" to acquire a player from another organization. Jake Peavy was "stolen" from the Padres because of finances, but we got him at a huge discount.

And lost when we traded for Royce Clayton. Well, at least we got Sosa, Wilson Alvarez and Scot Fletcher back in one of the greatest steals of all-time.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:40 AM) Then you move Rios to RF where he will be just as good. By the time those 2 guys are ready, we could realistically have 2 spots open in the OF (Pierre gone, Q to DH). He isn't blocking anybody. Alex Rios is a capable RFer, but the only place on the diamond that he profiles as an All-Star or merits his contract numbers is in CF. Alex Rios putting up his 2008 and 2009 numbers at his salary and playing RF is very close to a nightmare for KW and JR. If you have Danks/Mitchell playing one outfield spot and Rios hitting 15-18 homers at another, YOU BETTER get 70-90 homers from the 3rd outfielder and/or DH, because that's a seriously putrid outfield OPS (not too much different from 2009, actually). The only other option is for Tyler Flowers to emerge as a 25-35 homer threat and realistically not hurt us anymore than AJ defensively...but knowing we're also losing AJ's moxie, gamesmanship, knowledge of our pitchers and opposing players, you just have to hope and pray Flowers and Viciedo are real offensive contributors at some point or we're back to 2007 all over again.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:21 AM) Caufield's post is kind of scary. If his point of view is correct, our team better throw a lot of shutouts or we could be in trouble. He makes some good points, but it is the glass half empty take on the team. David Haugh/Tribune calls out Ozzie on Thome "pass" http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...,2742944.column Good. If 2006 taught us anything, it's that even a "perfectly constructed" team going into the season will have its issues. Going into 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, there were glaring holes in our major league roster. Right now, our lack of concern about having a bottom quintile DH combination and putting our hopes on the shoulders of Teahen, Pierre, Quentin, Rios, Kotsay and Andruw Jones is based on: 1) The Twins playing in a new stadium, which will magically morph them into an average team that has forgotten how to run, play fundamentally sound baseball, defend well or pitch. 2) The Indians and Royals have seemingly regressed. 3) The Tigers are financially strapped and had to give up Granderson and Jackson, arguably 2 of their 5 best players...as well as not resigning Polanco, Lyon or Rodney. 4) We can magically fix the eminently forseeable DH/hitting problem with a mid-season trade or adjustment and reel in the Twins or Tigers. The White Sox typically have been similar to Tiger Woods, "front-runners" who aren't as good at stalking or closing from behind. if you look at the 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2008 seasons, especially. We haven't shown the ability to come back in the 2nd half of the season in meaningful games since the Twins swept us at the Metrodome in 2003. So why we'd want to handicap ourselves, put off the fanbase by not putting a team on the field capable of starting fast and not taking advantage of the DECIDED advantage the pitchers will have in the "cold months" of April and May to support those aforementioned starters with enough runs to scrape together a bunch of 1-2 run wins (see 2005, April/May) is beyond me. I really think the organization just isn't quite as hungry since we won it all in 2005, and most of those players are gone except for Mark, AJ, Jenks and Paulie. It seems the whole attitude the last two or three years heading into Spring Training has been a bit complacent. Ozzie and KW always SAY the right things about bunting and fundamentals and versatility (whatever the buzz word of that offseason is), but then we lapse into bad habits and revert to the three run homer and a cloud of dust strategy. Is KW and Ozzie's strategy to NOT HAVE home run hitters, forcing all of the individual pieces of the line-up to function together more smoothly and create an attitude that only by sacrificing individual stats for each other can the team win? Small ball (Pods and Iguchi) has been debunked here quite frequently (we did have Konerko, Dye, Thomas, Everett, Rowand and Crede on that team, and even Iguchi, AJ and Uribe had some pop in their bats, too---and that was an average to below-average AL offense, yet light years ahead of 2010). I feel pretty confident that adding a Guerrero or Damon to the mix would have been enough to get the "fence sitters" who are waiting to see how things shake out back into USCF as paying customers. Now it's kind of a "wait and see" attitude, the typical "prove to me you're a winner" viewpoint that White Sox fans (not counting the die-hards or season ticket holders) typically have about their teams.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 02:04 AM) Thome would have clogged the paths. Who is arguing about skills? If Rios, Teahen and Pierre don't get on base at above 330 clips, whatever skills they have in terms of pure speed or base-running IQ don't really amount to a hill of beans. You can put Alexei Ramirez in that group as well, although his walk totals improved to so-so from abysmal.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:47 AM) What does Twins payroll have to do with this? And, no, some of those trades are also made because of needs. AZ had an abundance of outfielders and didn't need Quentin, The Royals didn't need another 3B/RF any longer. You're making it sound as if trades never happen in which one team gets the better end. I suppose Matt Thornton is only as valuable as Joe Borchard. Or John Danks is worth as much as Brandon McCarthy. Or Jose Contreras was only worth as much as Esteban Loaiza. It may be true that GMs typically try to make deals work out evenly for both teams, but it doesn't always work out that way. Mark Teahen is a complementary, bench player on most playoff teams. Maybe he could start for the Twins, but there aren't many upper division teams that would be giving him the starting job without any competition in Spring Training. Same thing with Juan Pierre, how many teams that are legit playoff contenders would go with him as their leadoff hitter? Even if he was playing for those teams, it would be as the 8th (NL) or 9th place hitter. As mentioned before, Jones and Kotsay wouldn't be part of a DH platoon for all but the 3-5 worst teams in the majors either...not even taking into consideration our home ballpark. Yes, the Rangers have a launching pad, but they also (have) had a stronger overall offense and there wasn't as much pressure on Jones to perform as there will be in Chicago in April and May. Then you have the Rios enigma...I'm really curious how many other GM's would have taken on that reclamation project at those numbers? Anyone besides KW? We could have put Rick Ankiel out in CF for 1/5th of the cost on a one-year contract, signed Vladimir Guerrero/N. Johnson/Matsui/Damon as our DH and had money left over to solidify the bullpen in the form of someone comparable to Dotel but with more of a history than Pena. Ankiel/Damon/Dotel (etc.) or Alex Rios??? That questionable decision is probably the biggest single factor preventing us from spending money right now on a legit DH. forcing us to do things on the cheap again (see Wise/Anderson/Owens 2009). There's one other factor here, too. Mitchell and Jordan Danks BOTH profile as better CFers than corner outfielders, the presence of Alex Rios in CF theoretically blocks both of those guys.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2010 -> 01:13 AM) That really doesn't illustrate or prove anything about the players the Sox have in exchange. Nor does it prove that they will not be productive. The Twins matter in this because it proves the point that you can make any player into an "X-factor" and because it shows that the Sox are not operating in a vacuum. Their success also depends on their competition. We've got too many issues, starting with a corner infielder in Teahen that if ALL the stars are aligned can give you a 775-825 OPS, but he can also give you 675-725. Let's be charitable and say Brendan Harris is equal to Mark. Ramirez and Hardy are pretty even, all things considered. Huge advantage to Beckham, our one clear positional advantage (barring a sophomore slump) over the Twins' line-up. Then you have Morneau huge over Konerko, Mauer huge over AJ, Young with a slight advantage over Pierre, Span a clear advantage over Rios of 08-09 and Cuddyer being pretty even with Quentin (yes, the upside of CQ is AL MVP, and coming off the 08 season this wouldn't be a toss-up). Huge advantage to Kubel over Jones/Kotsay. In other words, if Pierre/Teahen/Quentin/Rios/Jones/Kotsay perform at +25 to +50 over career norm stat levels, we'll trail the Twins by about 50-100 runs scored. That's assuming we can count on Becks, Ramirez, AJ and Konerko to do what we expect. I would say a full 5/9ths of our everyday line-up is questionable, whereas the Twins have holes only at 2B and 3B. The White Sox have the advantage in starting pitching, but the Twins have a lot more depth. Essentially, we have one replacement for Garcia (or anyone else going down) in Hudson (some will count Torres and Hynick, good luck with those guys over 10-15 starts). The Twins have 3-4 of their "system" guys that always seem to throw strikes and get the job done somehow. And this is based on the assumption that Liriano and Neshek, perhaps their two most effective pitchers in recent years, DO NOTHING. The Twins, overall, have a deeper bullpen and also a stronger closer, although Nathan has been shaky the last two years, it's not close to the level of concern surrounding Jenks. And reports are that Putz is still a big question mark. The only advantage the White Sox currently hold head-to-head is their top four starters. The Twins have better fundamentals, better overall team speed and they really cleaned up their defense last year. Now they sacrificed some of that D by giving up Gomez, but the White Sox were pretty atrocious in that area last year, and hoping for "mediocre" or league average is about the most we can get in terms of improvement because AJ, Teahen and Ramirez will have their issues and Beckham will be learning his 3rd infield position in a year.