caulfield12

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) I was pretty clear on the economy reality of the situation that the Sox were preparing for. In fact, I have been borne out pretty correct in most of my predictions about how much teams that weren't as prudent would get into trouble, and you only have to look at our division to see that playing out now. The Sox were very smart and ahead of the bell-curve in being ready for the problems. So much so that they have been able to take advantage of the situation of other teams to get guys like Peavy and Rios. Also after that same argument a million times you do realize that in the world of absolutes a few different things could have happened with the Sox. The first and most obvious is that the Sox prepared for a worst case scenario that did not happen. Like always the Sox invest their extra cash back into the team. The other is that revenue ended up being higher than anticipated. Another is that at the request of Kenny Williams, Jerry went back to the board and got extra cash from the investors that hadn't been there before. Another is that they moved funds over from other areas to pay for payroll raises. None of those scenarios means the Sox were cheap, like you said a million times. Too bad we weren't able to step in and get Edwin Jackson, Granderson or Cabrera. Dombrowski would have been grilled/vilified, although I'm sure at least half of Detroit wouldn't mind dumping Cabrera after the curious events of September, 2009. However, at least DET and CLE seem to be weakened to the point where they will struggle mightly to contend, leaving the White Sox and the Twins on their new field as the two main contenders left standing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 07:30 AM) The tag team mods. If I bother you guys so much with logic, just ban me. It's Christmas season, enjoy your life and family...it's better to just disappear for awhile and return when you feel like calmly discussing White Sox baseball again. Go see Avatar, or go shopping. Getting upset isn't worth it, trust me. Been there, done that. We all love the White Sox, everyone feels passionately about OUR team and their own beliefs, it's normal that we don't see eye to eye all the time with all posters...but you would miss this site. No matter where I am living or what I am doing in life, I always come back to White Sox baseball in the end, it's kind of like an addiction/religion that even seasons like 2007 and 2009 can't come close to extinguishing. Most of Generation X remembers what the late 70's and 80's were like at Old Comiskey Park. We survived for so long, and now we'll always have 2005 and that parade to remember, even if some families went a generation or two in their lifetimes without a Sox playoff appearance.

We're back to the same problem with Delgado, on multiple occasions he hasn't waived no trade clauses or has basically shown no desire to come here. As someone brought up earlier, I'm sure there is nothing contractual about standing for the playing of that song. It's one of these silly arguments, like candidates for political office have to wear American flag pins to prove they're patriotic. What would be interesting for me to see would be if an American baseball player playing winter ball or in the World Baseball Classic refused to stand for the Puerto Rican national anthem at a game in San Juan...would Delgado also be receptive to that? It's kind of like the "King's Anthem" which is played before movies here in Thailand...even if I am the only person in the theatre, I stand out of respect, even though he's not my king. If I remember correctly, wasn't there something going on with the bombing grounds in Puerto Rico for US planes? I can't remember if the specific event which precipitated Delgado's actions was the war in Iraq or something more specific to PR. In the end, I don't mind his actions, as long as he's consistent. Roberto Clemente is my favorite player of all-time and he was never afraid to throw himself into the middle of any argument or to speak his mind. In the end, it's what got him killed...as he boarded a dangerously-overloaded old plane just because he was so determined to ensure that earthquake relief supplies got to their intended recipients.

QUOTE (Voros @ Dec 21, 2009 -> 01:01 AM) Okay here's my theoretical 25 man roster (again I was asked): C - Pierzynski C - Erik Kratz (journeyman minor leaguer with a good glove and decent bat - league min) 1B - Konerko/Nick Johnson 2B - Getz/Nix platoon SS - Ramirez/Beckham 3B - Beckham/Ramirez LF - Quentin CF - Rick Ankiel/Rios (Ankiel at about a WAG of around $3 mil/yr) RF - Rios/Ankiel DH - Nick Johnson/Konerko (Johnson at about $6 mil/yr) IF - Nix/Getz IF - Mike McCoy (the Rockies waived him and the Jays claimed him before the White Sox turn, but you could have gotten him before then, league min) OF - Ryan Langerhans (non-tendered by the Mariners on the 12th and then re-signed a week later. Defensive specialist, league minimum or close to it) SP1 - Peavy SP2 - Danks SP3 - Buerhle SP4 - Floyd SP5 - Garcia/Hudson/Torres RP - Jenks RP - Thornton RP - Linebrink RP - Pena RP - Torres/Garcia (if Hudson's not starting I'd prefer him in AAA) RP - R.J. Swindle (minor league lefty killer currently on an NRI for the Rays, league min) RP - Chris Bootcheck or a guy like him (have a sort of open competition with guys like this in ST and see who looks the best. all league min) And I'm under the current amount spent. So if I see a reliever I really like for under $2 million, I can pounce. There's other guys you could go after like Andruw or Gabe Gross who would be useful additions to the team and wouldn't cost much. Freddy Dolsi wasn't a terrible pickup as he's a groundball specialist and they can be useful out of the pen, though I think he's a little hittable. I think this team is better than the current one and doesn't cost any more. I don't think it's a great team, but then that has a lot to do with a poor minor league system and some questionable existing long term big money contracts. The biggest risks (other than maybe Ankiel) are in spots where a flop doesn't really hurt you too bad and you can change courses pretty quickly. A guy like Swindle, despite his clear weaknesses, he throws strikes and lefties just don't seem to hit him at all and therefore should be more than adequate as a back of the pen platoon specialist. To me, little pickups like that are how you put together a bench: cheap with a little bit of potential should things break your way. Didn't we already do this coming into a prior year when we auditioned multiple left-handed relievers as well and traded the best of them in Javier Lopez to the Red Sox? It certainly was what happened coming into 2009. Kratz=Corky Miller, McCoy and Langerhans would represent the likes of Lillibridge/Anderson/Owens/Wise/Fields... Essentially, it's all "roster filler" and you can dress it up however you want to, the only big differences are Rick Ankiel and Nick Johnson. Now if you're KW, do I think it would have been better in retrospect to have spent the money on Ankiel/Johnson instead of claiming Rios? Undoubtedly...but he has to live with that decision. You're still left with a ton of question marks relying on Johnson and especially Ankiel....You're also glossing over the fact that Ozzie's comfort level as manager with veterans is considerably higher, instead of KW adding multiple question marks throughout the roster (as KW did heading into 09), at least he (Ozzie) feels more comfortable and knows exactly what he has with Pierre, Jones, Vizquel and Kotsay. Ozzie really really struggled managing that group (Miller/Lillibridge/Wise/Anderson/Wise/Fields/Nix) the first 2-3 months of the season. It's apparent KW wanted to address that issue as quickly as possible so it wouldn't recur in 2010. Was/is it building the roster backwards? We'll just have to wait and see. It's definitely a much different approach than he's taken in the past with setting up the roster. There's absolutely no reason that Bootcheck or Swindle (if you told me it was Greg Swindell in his prime I would have been more optimistic instead of feeling "swindled" like Dick Allen would going into the season with your roster) will do any better than the likes of Freddie Dolsi. KW has tried every approach in the book to the bullpen, from overspending on middle relievers and set-up guys to having open tryouts of other teams' castaways to taking fliers on Jenks and Thornton when many had already written them off. Still, it feels like our hope is to hang within hailing distance of Minnesota and then make another set of mid-season roster adjustments.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 12:36 PM) If Putz comes out electric, and Jenks continues his '09 performance...it will be frustrating to see how the business side will get in the way of them putting Putz in the right role. At least that will be the accusation if the trigger isnt pulled fast enough. I like getting Dolsi if for no other fact that it seems like it's been a few years now where we dont have a stable of possible, ready bullpen arms to go to. As long as Ehren Wasserman was a real possibility for our pen, I knew we didnt have viable relief help on the farm. Last year it seemed like everything viable was on the major league roster, as evidenced by Poreda being up out of necessity. Do you guys think the Sox......for trade value concerns... kind of 'managed' Poreda's ERA last year with the infrequent situations he was put in? If so, another reliever should have been up instead of him (if one was around). And also, will it happen again this year in a sense with Tyler Flowers or Hudson...? Of course, you really have to believe KW knew all along that Poreda was one of the most coveted pieces in our system, especially going into last year. Obviously there were concerns he would never become a starter all along...that he was essentially being marketed to teams around the league as part of a package to get something bigger/better in return. Thank god Clayton Richard became much more than just a LOOGY and pitched so well enough that he could be shipped off along with Poreda to get Peavy in return. If Flowers and Hudson brought back someone like A-Gonzalez, nobody would sweat it TOO much. We'd merely say, well, look how many of KW's prospect trades in the past have turned out busts? Phil Rogers doesn't even have Chris Young to hype anymore, all he can do is bring up Javier Vazquez or the non-return from Swisher (Viciedo-Marquez-Nunez-Betemit) so far. I guess there's always C. Carter and our former future Cliff Floyd from the LH side...because the Cunningham and Sweeney fan groups have quieted down quite a bit, too.

Well, it never would have happened because Dombrowski wouldn't have traded him to another ALCD rival anyway. Seems the ONLY time that happens is with relievers going from the Royals to the White Sox (names like Sisco, MacDougal, Carrasco, Sisco, H. Ramirez, David Riske, Sullivan, etc., come to mind)... On second thought, seems Riske ended up with Royals after Sox failed to offer him arbitration?

Well, if Dolsi COULD (Coop will fix him, trademark) develop a secondary pitch, he would be absolutely nasty, not unlike Rodney when he has the change-up/fastball combination going. Now we know that strategy DIDN'T work with the aforementioned list of pitchers like Aardsma, Sisco and Masset, not to mention Aaron Poreda and Matt Thornton. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that he could get on a roll for at least half a season like Politte did in 2005. I would say (comparing this to the "condition" in which we acquired Cliffie) that I am/was more optimistic hearing about Dolsi coming in that the orginal Politte acquisition when it happened...maybe even more positive than I felt about Hermanson. As far as Jenks goes, he's never really had two legitimately-touted candidated (Putz and Thornton) vying for his job. MacDougal wasn't brought in for that function, neither was Octavio Dotel. There has/had never been more rumors about his being traded or being non-tendered. Contract incentives were placed in the Putz deal specifically as "Option B" to Jenks, AND because they didn't have to improve Thornton's "bargain" contract. MAYBE, just MAYBE, it will be the kick in the seat of the pants that he (BBBJ) really needs to get back on track. We know that he's been capable of really getting it into the upper 90's occasionally, but those adrenaline-pumping moments have been few and far between with the exception of the last two months of the 2008 season. You might take the bet that Jenks would have 30-35 saves (or more) going into this season with a Vegas sports book, but I'm not sure that I would. Still, as has been argued repeatedly, you can't afford to trade him for less than equal value or just cut him loose. The risk is too high that Putz would/will fail and that the bullpen would implode, with all the starting pitching in the world not being enough to carry the offense and shoddy pen.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) I always thought of Aardsma's career with the Sox unwinding after he threw 4 straight balls to a Twins hitter with the bases loaded in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th or 10th, giving them the game. That is the absolute last recollection I have of Aards in a Sox uniform. And I have thought, even since that point, as losing Aardsma as a mistake. Well, Aarsdma has definitely been something of an enigma his entire career, just like MacDougal. You never know, Dolsi has a pretty electric arm, and was considered untouchable just 2 years ago. So unpredictable what you're going to get with relievers, but I feel a LITTLE bit better having Pena and Dolsi, that ONE of them can have a breakout/comeback season. The only thing we feel confident in going into 2010 might be Linebrink being pretty good in the first half...because we still have no idea what we're going to get out of Jenks and Putz, and even Thornton has had his moments of occasional struggle with the Sox, usually when he gets behind in the count or becomes too predictable or loses command.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) That's because no one has ever actually said Cooper fixes everyone. The argument is dumb, because you are attributing things as fact, which aren't. And honestly, with the same three things that you repeat over and over and over again, I hardly ever respond anymore, because it is fully pointless. 1) I love Greg Walker. 2) JR and KW, boo, boo, boo!!!! White Sox are cheap. Actually, considering many posters (including myself) have been accused of being boring/predictable, I think it's nice that there a few who are always reliable and consistent in "spinning" most White Sox news in a certain way. It gives the site some balance...it would be tremendously boring if we were in agreement or had consensus the majority of the time. Reminds me of past debates over issues like Willy Taveras, Brian Anderson or Nix/Getz...or the now steadily recurring stats/OBP versus 'scouting/eyeballs' which was first highlighted by Moneyball/The Blind Side author Michael Lewis.... Reminds me a little of the Copenhagen Summit, maddening at times, but still the "big tent" is far better than the "censorship/my way or the highway/it's our board, so shut up" approach prevalent at other Sox sites.

Well, Cotts certainly did better when he was throwing harder out of the bullpen than as a starter. MacDougal has been incredibly inconsistent throughout his career, mostly because of strikezone command (or lack thereof). No matter what speed he pitches at (anywhere from 92-98), his pitches seemingly have a ton of movement, which is a large part of the problem. I think they simply told him in the end to aim at the center of the plate and forget about everything else they had tried to teach him...of course, pitching for the Nationals is a lot different than for the White Sox in terms of pressure. Same thing with Aardsma and Masset, to a lesser degree. Aardsma wasn't ready to be a closer for the White Sox (his failures, after pitching like Linebrink's April-June 08 or Cotts/Politte in 05) and his career really went downhill after giving up a walk-bomb to someone on the Tigers, I think it was Monroe or Thames, one of those guys. He was always reputed to have the lowest amount of confidence, and you saw that in the second half last year with the M's again as he was far from consistent. I think Maaset is probably the most interesting case. I'm not sure what happened...it seemed there was confusion about his role and what to do with him, but he was never close to 95-100 for most of his time with the Sox. Of course, we all know that even Joel Zumaya gets lit up at that speed when everyone knows what's coming. But if Nick really was throwing 3-5 MPH harder with the Reds, maybe it was simply that he decided it was better to go with power and give up a little command, because of his lack of movement. Contreras and Garland, to name just a couple, always seemed to have a lot more life and (dead ball effect) at lower speeds, although when Jose was it his best in 05/06, he was consistently at 95-96-97 with every FB, and the increase in velocity probably has something to do with the air/altitude/cold in Colorado. It's not like he did that well there, he was considering a Japanese League team the last I read about him.

Well, the White Sox clearly have a huge and clear advantage over the Twins in the pitching department for the first time since 2005. I do worry about giving Tyler Flowers a lot of AB's at DH, because the reason the White Sox have had so much trouble breaking in young players (until Beckham performed) is that you can't play rookies like Borchard/Anderson/Fields, etc., when they're not producing. They rode it out with Anderson in 2006 for half the season, but it became a focus point of the media eventually, despite how well the team was playing overall. It's kind of a double-edged sword. The White Sox are usually in the thick of the division race and can't afford to have many throw-away years like 2007 (look how well Owens/Fields/Wasserman produced, and what they've done since, or dare I mention Andy Gonzalez?)...so KW and Ozzie are more likely to trust veteran players than rookies. Look what happened with the likes of Erstad and Mackowiak playing over Anderson. Now, I think we can finally put to bed the Brian Anderson Conspiracy Theory at least 75%. As for Flowers, he seems to be the type of player who would need to get regular and consistent at-bats, same with someone like Jordan Danks (just throwing out his name, because of his swing mechanics). I just don't see Flowers making the team as the back-up catcher and part-time DH. I think the only way KW will use him is either as a full-time starter at catcher after AJ leaves or as part of a trade, keeping his value as high as possible in AAA before the bloom comes off the rose, as it usually does with Sox prospects. For another example, look how long it took for Rowand and Crede to win starting roles in Chicago...and KW kept trying to replace Rowand seemingly every season (especially after the motorbike accident) because he didn't fully trust him as a starter AND wanted to go cheap with Reed/A. Webster/Young/Anderson all in the pipeline behind Rowand.

I would guess we're right at the payroll limit set by JR or over it by now...meaning the only question of the offseason remaining is whether losing Bobby Jenks is worth gaining Vladimir Guerrero as our DH. Interesting question...we have our most solid bench since 2006 by far, assuming Andruw Jones isn't a starter. Although right now, Pierre, Kotsay and Andruw Jones would be getting quite a few AB's if Quentin is really going to be the full-time DH. The main questions left are quality RH relievers, Williams (I'm assuming KW will pick up a Ray King or Arthur Rhodes type to compete in ST, just throwing out some random names for LH relievers) and the on-going DH issue. I haven't been paying so much attention this offseason, but a lot of the contracts are more back-loaded, so there's not QUITE as much pressure on the payroll in 2010 as there might have been had Hahn and Company not been so prescient in setting things up well to best compete the next couple of years with that rotation in place. Finally, Vin Scully's a baseball announcer I admire about as much as any in the game, and he said when Pierre made a "mental" error one time last season that it was the first time it had happened in a Dodger uniform. In other words, he's a solid baseball player who doesn't make mistakes, the anti-Pods. Sure, we know he doesn't hit for power, he's got a horrible noodle arm and he's got a pretty low OBP, but look at what we started 2009 with on our roster. But he can definitely lay down a bunt, haha. Ozzie likes veterans more in general, and he's been close to Pierre since his Marlins days. If nothing else, we're accumulating former Dodgers' outfielders, unfortunately not Kemp, Ethier or Ramirez (well, that would never happen under KW and JR!) Pods, in the end, was just too much of an injury risk to sign for two seasons for about the same amount of money, and Pierre's a better overall defender.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 01:22 AM) Do you have any details or links with information on the deals with Accenture and Gillette? Sorry, I was just joking, in light of all the Tiger Woods controversy the last two weeks....thought they might be open to investing in White Sox baseball. Speaking of sponsors (and yes, this is off track but I don't want to start a new thread)...have we heard anything about the marketing department this off-season? "We picked the absolute worst time to have an exclusive bank deal and a significant deal with Buick Pontiac GMC. The Chicago budget for Buick Pontiac GMC dropped over $16 million, in Chicago alone. So we lost that deal in one way. Luckily, we’re in a multiyear deal with Chevy, so we’re seeing some of their other money. Our exclusive bank deal, five years ago when we did the deal, it was brilliant. All the stars were aligned. LaSalle Bank was in Chicago, it was deeply rooted in Chicago. It was a perfect match for our brand. But little did we know that five years later, we’d be in the situation that we’re in now [bank of America acquired LaSalle in 2007]. So we’ve lost Bank of America as a partner, and trying to find a new exclusive bank in this economy is not easy. We get it. Those two hits alone, and then to have Motorola in our backyard face the challenges they’re facing, have definitely hurt us." Brooks Boyer in April, 2009

Well, the other thing you have to consider is our dearth of Top 10 picks over the last twenty years or so. The last really significant "big-time" prospects before Beckham were probably Joe Borchard and Jon Rauch (I suppose you could include Kip Wells and Jon Garland in there somewhere too)...speaking of Borchard, flipping him for Matt Thornton has to go up on the all-time Top 5 KW moves list, too. Our system actually isn't even in the Bottom 10-12 teams in terms of producing major league players, it's simply that we haven't produced very many All-Stars of our own after the Magglio/C-Lee/Durham triumvirate, there's really only been Crede and Rowand since (for position players). We're good at producing Angel Andy Gonzalezes and Ehren Wasserman types to fill out the last three roster spots. Buehrle was perhaps the least likely of all those pitching prospects to make it in the 1998-2002 group. Ironic, that Buehrle and Josh Fogg, along with Chad Bradford, would end up having the biggest impact on the game...not Wells, Ginter, Rauch, Barcelo, Danny Wright, Aaron Myette, Jason Stumm, Rob Purvis, Brian West, etc (all of those "power arms" that KW was collecting at the time). It will be interesting to see if anything ever comes of the T. Thompson pick...we've gone through so many athletes trying to play baseball (Borchard, Josh Fields, Brian West, Brian Anderson, Chris Young) that Beckham stood out as a "pure" baseball player, so different from the typical White Sox draft pick. In some ways, Chris Getz also seemed to fit this mold as well, not the kind of player off the charts in the scouts' ratings but something akin to Bobby Hurley or Chris Corchiani, a "gym rat" who forced his way onto every team he played for.

This move seems a bit ill-advised. With all the money we've wasted on Toby Hall, Castro, Mike MacDougal, Linebrink and Contreras, you'd think we'd be more "penny wise." Now the odds are DJ won't repeat his 2008/09 success yet another season, but how can they know? I'm assuming they're penciling in Hudson into the same role, or Hynick, someone like that...assuming that Garcia is the fifth starter to open the season. So I guess I'll look at it purely from the perspective of bringing in younger talent with more upside, rather than a cost-savings. Maybe it will be both. While I'm not sure he was the MVP of the team, he was critically important in a way that casual baseball fans could never understand over a long, 162 game season...but especially in July/August of 08. You also never heard anything negative about him...being anything but a stable, veteran clubhouse presence and a solid teammate. Hopefully, KW can get that chemistry/mix mojo working again, it's been hard to find a consistent chemistry with all the personnel changes this team has made over the last five seasons. I would guess our roster turnover has been in the Top 10-15% of all MLB teams during that timespan. We'll just have to wait and see if we sign Guerrero/Matsui/Damon and/or get a new leadoff hitter on the backs of new deals signed by the market department with Gillette and Accenture.

I would think there's a team out there that would give Vladimir Guerrero at least $5 million guaranteed for 2010, it not a bit more. Heck, just for name recognition alone, having Guerrero and Andruw Jones on our team would probably pay for itself, especially Vladimir. He's still one of the most recognizable names in the game today...and the entertainment value of having The Impaler and The Cuban Missile on the same team, with their propensity for swinging at almost everything within range of home plate, would be a sight to see (or bemoan). I also picked Guerrero as the most likely name for us, over the likes of Matsui/Damon, Thome and others that have been bandied about. Also, HOPE Merkin is wrong about our bullpen (the names he listed from our minor league system don't impress very much), and I think he's overestimating a bit how quickly Jordan Danks and Jared Mitchell will be making significant contributions. Danks is very much a work in progress, a little like a Ryan Sweeney with perhaps more upside potential because of his athleticism and ability to play CF so well, but just as likely a candidate to go Brian Anderson on us at the major league level because of his swing. Worst-case, we go with ONE internal candidate for the bullpen and cover the other one through veteran signing "on the cheap" or the waiver wire. If Jenks is gone, that really could throw the entire bullpen situation into disarray, but if we could have Vladimir Guerrero and another reliever (maybe even Putz) instead of Jenks, I would go for it and cross my fingers if I were KW. I'd really be curious to see the physical condition of Jenks 2 month into the offseason.

Maybe it was more based on "expectation" and the numbers Beltre put up offensively before going to the M's. He had that one, huge breakout season and parlayed it into a big payday but never came close to duplicating those numbers....defensively, he's better than Crede, there's no question about that aspect of his game, his arm strength, etc. Sexson was the worst of all of those, although Washburn in close. On second thought, perhaps Silva! Vidro had some good years at least offensively. Johjima was more about the ownership group and their commitment to continue to "sell" to the Japanese market and make further inroads, but that was a reach. When you look at the advantage we SHOULD have over the other markets (Detroit is being forced to sell off Edwin Jackson and/or Granderson because they were spending beyond their means) in our division, it's comparable to the LA Angels situation. The only wildcards are whether the Twins can keep Mauer AND Morneau with their new stadium and whether the Indians will bounce back with a new manager.

I might be wrong...but I'm not sure how well-supported a early 90's to mid 2000's run (like the Braves had) would be supported in terms of attendance. The Braves only had one World Series title, and Braves fans really became bored with those teams falling short or not being built with all the components to win it all...maybe that's expecting too much, perhaps. It did take at least 8-10 years before the attendance really started to fall off, and I think a large part of that was due to the corporatization of the Braves, Ted Turner leaving day-to-day oversight and the fact that the really exciting teams and playoff appearances with that team happened in the early 90's through the mid to late 90's, then fans sort of lost interest and stopped coming in record numbers, and maybe the appeal of the new stadium (it's "okay") also started to wear off, too. Of course, any Sox fan would love to have that type of home-grown dynasty (Glavine, Smoltz by trade, Avery and then acquiring Maddux). My question would be how long White Sox fans would "pack the park" and pay rising prices if the White Sox continually flamed out in the first round of the playoffs, like more consistent franchises such as the Twins (and previously) the A's have done? Would there be diminishing returns with attendance until the White Sox won another World Series again? I think the closest example we can aim for is that of the Angels' sustained success, their fight under Moreno pull up almost even with the Dodgers in that market, consistent playoff appearances, that's setting the bar about as high as you can.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Nov 27, 2009 -> 02:00 PM) I for one hope that KW will be kicked upstairs soon and Hahn assumes control of the team. Face it, 05 was great but it was fluke. Since that time, Kenny has used the approach of leveraging prospects for older veteran types who have bigger contracts. Eventually, in order to have repeated success at CONTENDING we have to eventually develop a strong farm system where we not only develop good players but maybe actually keep a few of them. With the decline of hormone and amphetamine use, baseball to a large extent is reverting back to old days when power wasn't as important as pure fundamental baseball skills like speed, defense, on-base %, etc.. Things worked out OK in the last few years when we had the gate and advertisers to support a larger payroll, but with some bad seasons recently and a poor economy, I do not see Kenny's strategy of acquiring older and more expensive players , whether through free agency or trading prospects, as being sustainable. Sure getting Jake Peavy was great and our rotation is shaping up to be awesome next year but what about the rest of the team? I see us leading the league in quality starts but finishing in third place. What about the other holes on the team? I know that as a fan, I am in the minority here, but I think that future success will hinge on a younger team developed from within. First of all, I think just because Hahn is very good with the business side of things, that's certainly no guarantee of success in the much more high-profile world and microscope of being an MLB GM. Look at what happened with Dan Evans in LA and how short his tenure was in that position...I would say at the time, there were many or perhaps even more who preferred him over KW. The reason KW has adopted his plans over the last decade are partly due to the traditional White Sox fan base (not supporting rebuilding or even .500 teams)...the competition with the Cubs for the media spotlight...the desire to "entertain" the fans with shows of offensive output/HR's...and his overall lack of patience and desire to "go for it" each and every year. Lots of GM's would be very hesitant to make the Rios move, but KW did it because he has the full faith and confidence of Reinsdorf. But I think 15-20 GM's would never dream of pulling the trigger for fear of that move haunting them in the future and bringing a premature end to their "honeymoon" period. The fact of the matter is that KW and Ozzie hate losing as much, if not more than, most White Sox fans (although some are arguing that Ozzie lost his fire and chip on his shoulder in 2005). That's all you can ask for. As another example, look at Bill Smith in Minnesota. He was a brilliant farm director but has been pretty abysmal as a GM, in terms of the moves that he has made. Now the major league teams have outperformed his GM performance (same thing happened with the Sox in 2008) for two years in a row, but I don't think any Twins fan would possibly argue he's been anything but a shadow of former GM Terry Ryan. Now just because Dan Evans and Bill Smith haven't worked so well...that doesn't mean HAHN will fail as well. But beware of the back-up QB momentum...90% of the time, you miss your first stringer when he's out, and the fans come to realize why he was the first-stringer in the beginning. I think the same will be said of KW and even Ozzie when they're gone and been replaced by others within the Sox organization. We will miss the KW swagger, his attitude reflected by his comments about the Tigers "being in a better position to compete with the Sox" after the Miguel Cabrera move....KW watched Dave Dombrowski (another former Sox front office guy) practically turn that organization into the Titanic in terms of the financial implications of that roster moving into 2010, and he didn't overspend but was careful/cautious, knowing he didn't have the team to win it all yet. I think 2010 and 2011 will be much more significant for the eventual fates of KW and Ozzie than 2008/09 were, both feeling like transition years in turning over the roster.

But we spent $12-13 million USD to do it....unfortunately. Looking at the cost of Andruw Jones in 2009 versus Thome's portion of the payroll, there's no comparison in overall value. And Jones' decline would have dovetailed nicely with the funk we went through the final two months of the season.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 26, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Um, huh? Dunn's averaged 41 HR and 101 RBI the last 6 years. That definitely would excite me if he were available. I was saying this more from the standpoint of watching the same kind of 3 run home run and a cloud of dust offense the last decade. It's just that the names have changed from Valentin, Ordonez, Thomas and C-Lee to what's left, Konerko and Co. Guess I'd be okay with Dunn, much moreso than Johnson, knowing Johnson is ten times more likely at this point. Certainly, you'd have to pick him over Thome, but then again, that's arguing apples to oranges with payroll being the most important number, not who's better or younger. 2005 proved we could win with a very different offensive mix, although I think the missing presence of Dye will be understood more fully this season. He was so underrated around the baseball world, but not by die-hard White Sox fans. It's just that with Dye and Thome seemingly gone, it would be a nice change to have a different offensive approach take hold in this organization. Of course, 100%, homers will always be important at USCF. That said, finding the equivalent of the next Chone Figgins (but NOT him or Pods) would excite me a lot more. NOTE: AJ will not be our catcher for 3 more seasons...maybe 2, but three is hard to imagine at this point, unless Flowers is really gone. Also, Thome has averaged 32+ homers and 90+ RBI's (not even adjusting for missing 2 months with us this year) in a much more difficult league, but nobody's exactly clamoring to bring him back.

Williams' job is more secure than Guillen's, of course, but the Peavy and Rios acquisitions were his riskiest yet, since the Todd Ritchie and David Wells moves in 2001/2002. Both have the potential to pay off big, and both could be seen as huge albatrosses, but would have to be considered legit risks (based on cost/benefit analysis at the time of those moves). As someone said earlier, those pesky Twins have made KW look silly consistently winning with lower payrolls and a much better farm system, not to mention teams that simply don't beat themselves very often. For that matter, Dombrowski has looked bad, too. Then again, the White Sox and Tigers both went to the World Series, and the Twins have now lost 10+ playoff games in a row. But you really would be hard-pressed to argue how KW was better than Terry Ryan, except for that 2005 season. On a consistent basis, and especially taking into consideration payroll, Ryan beats him hands-down. Then again, the biggest move for that franchise was a non-move, them "lucking" into Mauer when the Cubs took Prior. Thanks to that move, they inherited the best young player in the game at the most important position. Even without Morneau, they were able to make the playoffs, and with Scott Baker as their "ace." Very impressive, although Smith has been a pretty lousy GM, comparatively. It's amazing (that Hahn's son guessing right) has turned the comparison to 3 White Sox division titles versus 5 for the Twins to what just could just as easily have been an unforgiveable 6 to 2 ratio for the Twins over the White Sox (with 2002 and 2007 going to the Indians and their underachieving Shapiro/Wedge combo). Then again, that WS title in 2005 makes a lot of give both KW and Ozzie Guillen a TON of slack/rope.

JJ PUTZ is a "gap" signing? REALLY? Are we now the NY YANKEES? Maybe bringing back LH RP Williams or Sean Tracey, lol. Carl Everett...might as well add Mark Mulder, Penny or John Smoltz to the list, haha. Those would be gap signings. Byrd, Crisp, Matsui, Damon...we speculated all last off-season about Bobby Abreu and also O-Dog, Abreu in particular became uber-cheap, and we still didn't get him. God forbid, Milton Bradley if the Cubs eat 80% of that salary, or Soriano. That can't happen though, it would be too embarassing for them to send Fukudome/Bradley/Soriano, PAY for either one of them, then watch him lead the White Sox to the post-season. Same problem with DET eating the contract of Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, etc. What would be incredibly awesome would be getting Edwin Jackson for a cheap price from the Tigers, but even DD isn't that stupid. They would try to dump Robertson, Bonderman or Dontrelle Willis and KW would have none of it...well, maybe he would be intrigued by Bonderman or Willis with the right amount of money to subsidize either deal, say 85-90%!!! For some reason, having Adam Dunn or Nick Johnson here isn't very exciting. Perhaps we'll keep hearing some "newer" old names arise, besides Upton, like Cody Ross, Francouer or Hermida.

Yeah, but we've also ditched Fields, Getz and a number of busts like Broadway, Anderson....and crafted a very veteran bench, like 2006. First of all, to quote JR, "Peavy and Rios" were our big splashes. Second, KW's style has almost always been to wait until mid-season to make adjustments, although he should have learned from the LH RP debacle and the Owens/Wise/Lillibridge/Miller/Anderson/Fields one not to start the season with 25% of the roster in chaos or fill-ins. Third, Pods/AJ/El Duque/Hermanson/Vizcaino/Iguchi/Dye...none of those guys were SPLASHY additions, in fact, most were bemoaning the "idiocy" of KW letting Valentin, C-Lee/El Caballo and Ordonez go and replacing them with speculative players at that time. Dye was definitely a typical White Sox rehabilitation on the fly type of signing, far from a sure-thing. Can you tell me that any of those names are MORE exciting than Peavy or even Rios (based on his age and potential return to mean?) Fourth, we've probably reached the tipping point with our payroll...certainly you don't see them adding more than another $3-5 million unless they can somehow subtract creatively Linebrink/Konerko/Jenks. Fifth, we're not going to trade away our captain going into this season, it won't happen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2009 -> 06:19 PM) He probably is a slight upgrade over Josh Fields offensively for slightly more money, but nothing that can't be eaten. I'm shocked the Sox signed a Boras guy in November and Boras took it at this time. I do agree he appears to have had some help putting up numbers in the past. If anything he could be exhibit A to Bobby Jenks about what happens to guys who don't take their fitness seriously. Its a blah signing. I'm looking forward to the real moves. I'm just curious as to why the Rangers didn't want to bring him back. The Josh Fields of ST 2009 (he of the better vision and quick bat, and numerous doubles) MIGHT be comparable to the way Andruw Jones laced the ball the first half of the season. MAYBE. But, no matter how out of shape and malcontented and difficult Andruw Jones might be...even shaped like Richard Simmons, he can still patrol his position defensively as a back-up 10X better than Josh Fields could ever defend (I'll take that back, Josh made one nice play on Opening Day, 2009).