caulfield12

But the Twins could say the same thing about winning a start at home with Liriano on the mound. I wasn't expecting the Twins to lose last night, I thought the White Sox had a 50/50 chance of winning. Today, I would say the Twins should lose because of Perkins versus Meche, which means the opposite will happen. Which also means our entire season is riding on someone who is probably looking at his mutual fund ROI rather than being upset like we are at soxtalk. I thought the fan with the "I cried myself to sleep last night" poster had it right...today there were no more tears or anger, just a growing realization or deadened feeling that nothing else that happens with faze me in the least, whether it's positive or negative. There's a 33% we get there, a 66% chance we don't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:55 AM) I think Ozzie is signed through 2012. Unless he says something totally obnoxious that gives JR and KW no choice or unless he quits, he will be here at least until then. Yeah, I know about Guillen's contract. A lot depends on how this season ends. If we lost both Saturday and Sunday (why not Monday to Garcia?) as well, then there would be a tremendous amount of pressure on Ozzie coming into next season, especially with the rumors/stories starting to fly about clubhouse problems and dissension in the ranks. It also depends on Ozzie's and KW's willingness to go through a rebuilding phase. I still think it's inevitable. KW will say "reload" or make a remark like the one about the Tigers when they added Cabrera (Miggy), but there's just too much uncertainty for this team to be anything more than a pick for 3rd place going into next season. Maybe they will go out and get the big fish, Sabathia, and I'll end up quiet for a little while, like in 2001 when we went through the David Wells Experience. The odds of that are 5-10%, same thing with Ichiro and with A-Rod coming here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:49 AM) Are you sure about the Contreras insurance? I read somewhere there wasn't any. I know the Mets have none on Billy Wagner. Figgins is a guy who supposedly is not well liked in the Angel clubhouse, and seems to be constantly injured. Furcal has a back problem. With what went down with Crede, I don't see JR shelling out a huge commitment to him. Hudson is a guy the Sox have admired for years, but he wants 8 figures. I find it hard to believe he's worth that. There's just nothing obvious out there, plus with the Yankees and Mets moving into new moneymakers and the Yankees also shedding $84 million in payroll, if you go the free agent route, you may have to be looking at plan D or E. It will be an interesting offseason. I do know KW will get a real leadoff hitter. I don't think it will be Gary Mathews, Jr., but a name like that is along the lines of what KW is looking at...a player we could get another team to subsidize his contract, whose upside MIGHT still be relatively high. Milton Bradley. Tavares comes to mind, I know most posters here don't like that move. Alex Rios or Vernon Wells. CoCo Crisp. Brian Giles. Abreu. Those are the kind of names we'll see, maybe Michael Bourn Identity. I doubt we could get someone like Lastings Milledge. In past years, someone like Dave Martinez, Ellis Burks, Mike Devereaux, etc. No, not Daubach or Armando Blame It on Jose Rios. What this team needs is a 2009 version of Lance Johnson or Ray Durham to add a little excitement and speed to go with the Cuban Missile.

I would give KW two more years. Guillen's on a much shorter rope. If the team starts off like the Indians or Tigers, I think you have to try someone new (assuming that Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ are all back next season)...and that Cabrera and Swisher are gone. Then the injuries and clubhouse aren't going to be excuses anymore.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 04:11 AM) Again, look to KW for blame on the injury angle.....While the CQ injury was self-inflicted, the fact is that Kenny's roster is comprised with older veteran players who historically break down and get injured more than younger players. So when these players get injured, the only recourse is that you replace them with your better minor league players...but.. oops, Kenny did a lousy job of that as well. I think that from a prospect development standpoint, we are slowly getting back on track again, but in the meantime, it's going to be tough counting on any help from the minors...so...the only way of finding help there is to sign veteran free agent talent....but...oops, the Sox budget is already high and there is very little flexibility in 09. Also alarming is the growing amount of 'dead money' accumulating in 09 - Contreras $10 million, MacDougal $3 million, Linebrink $5 million, Swisher $4 million....that's one hell of a lot of money tied up in guys that you cannot count on in 09. So how do you fix this? You do have a nice but small core of good players, but major changes are clearly needed and other than throwing more money at the problems, the options are few. I would give Kenny a one year deal, but absolutely nothing long term. The Twins, with contracts for the likes of Lamb, Monroe, Everett and Livan Hernandez, were actually more "wasteful" than the White Sox in this regard. Not to mention that it was a much higher percentage of their overall payroll than the White Sox, significantly higher. What's getting Bill Smith off the hook for only adding Guardado is the minor league depth that Ryan left him with....Buscher, Tolbert, Span, Mijares, Breslow (picked up from the Indians for nothing), etc. MacDougal was clearly a "miss," but we have insurance on Contreras' contract (about $6.5 million if he were to miss all of 2009), Linebrink hopefully will be back to normal and Swisher will either provide us something different in return or we'll see if he can rebound (like KW did with Vazquez). The contracts for Dotel and Linebrink are a concern, but it seems that spending any money in the FA market on short relievers is just like playing Russian Roulette or craps. The odds of success are better with proven veterans (although this theory didn't work so well for Baltimore, or with teams that gambled on Gagne)...than what we did the last two seasons in our bullpen, which was essentially loading up with former first round draft picks and guys with talented arms and hope that Cooper could salvage their careers magically. KW just needs to be creative...either Dye or Konerko should move to DH (my preference would be Dye), Swisher to 1B (where you hope for a rebound) and then you try Anderson or go the FA route (or get a SS/2B/3B back from a Konerko deal.) The problem is that we have at least three significant issues: 3B, 2B/SS (I'm assuming Ramirez will end up at short), and CF, where Swisher is playing out of position. Our best bargaining chips are Poreda and Fields, yet they both are depth in positions where we need the most help (5th starter/3B) going into next season. I think it might be too expensive a luxury to carry Uribe at $4-5 million a season to be the back-up, and Uribe and Anderson are players I'm not sure you wisely or logically build around, even though they are still much younger than your core in Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ. You play Swisher at 1B, you have a little below major league average production, very solid defense...it's all predicated on getting a Pods-like (not Jerry Owens) player for CF. Getting Figgins, Hudson, Furcal, etc., isn't going to be cheap, either in terms of salary or talent surrendered. KW has to go out and find someone (like Alex Rios) coming off a down year, but still young, that the club is willing to part with for the right price...a player that doesn't fit on the depth chart due to injuries or one season of non-performance, but major league ready (like Quentin). Maybe we should look at Japan again, it worked for awhile with both Takatsu and Iguchi. Maybe KW will really roll the dice on Ichiro or A-Rod, although both these names seem more like fantasy discussion based on our minor league systems, rather than reality. Abreu's name has been mentioned, and he would be fine, if the price was right and we could move Konerko and put Swisher at 1B and find a better CFer. Then there's always the strange and curious case of Brian Anderson.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 01:01 AM) It's always better to make the playoffs. It's what they play for (aside from zillions of dollars that arguably have changed big leaguers' attitudes for the worse) and why we cheer as fans. We aren't going to make the playoffs, trust me, but it is way better to make the playoffs. Why else be fans or players? I'm surprised with all the doom and gloom you actually want to see the White Sox in the playoffs at all. Well, remember what happened with the Jayhawks in the final game? Did you turn off the t.v. set in the final five minutes or leave it on? I just hope, with all of our starters absolutely gassed, that there are no consequences down the line...look what all those playoff appearances and overuse did to Hudson, Mulder and Zito. Now Buerhle is the only one to put up a really high pitch count, nearing anything in the vicinity of what Baker did to Prior and Wood, and I'm sure he will be there tomorrow to take the bump even at 75%, because that's the way Buehrle is, a battler, a better version of the Bulldog, Greg Hibbard. There was a lot of concern here about 6 weeks ago about Danks and his arm. He went to the coaching staff, apparently, and said he was having some problems...which is one of the main reasons he was given over a week before his last start in KC. Notice the Twins, if they go to a game Tuesday, have already declared they won't use Liriano on short rest, even though they would have to start Blackburn instead.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 02:24 AM) Yeah, they're not good excuses, they're answers, reasons, explanations etc. Losing Q means less protection for the other guys in the lineup. Take Morono out of the Twins lineup, how do you think they would do? The reason we do not have a 5+ game lead right now is due to injuries and injuries alone. The number of games lost due to no Q, no Linebrink, no Jenks, no Contreras, no Crede = well over 5 games. Maybe if we only lost Wise or Ozuna for a couple months, you can say "oh injuries are just part of the game"...but not with those losses. The Twins had injuries, but nowhere near the extent we did. They lost Neshek for the entire season and Cuddyer for a large percentage of it. Actually, losing Cuddyer might have turned out to be a blessing. In the process, they found a player in Denard Span, a former 1st round draft pick (yet another home-grown product) who contributed mightily this season...in many ways, the MVP of their team, even though his individual statistics are relatively meager when compared to the Sox big bombers. But that's kind of the point. Players like Gomez, Span, Punto, Buscher, Casilla and Harris contribute in multiple ways that are not measured by the traditional box score.

I'm starting to think it might be better not to make the playoffs and just shut Danks and Floyd down. The staff obviously knew something when they sat him out for over a week prior to his KC start. The Twins have also announced they WON'T start Liriano on 3 day's rest and they will go with Blackburn on Tuesday, if there is a Tuesday. On paper, the White Sox have the edge in match-ups tomorrow, with Meche/Perkins (skipped in their rotation) and Vazquez/Zachster. Which undoubtedly means we'll lose tomorrow and the Twins will win. Then the opposite will occur Sunday, well, just because it's Brandon Duckworth going for the Royals, and the Twins SHOULD beat him. The funny thing would be if Bullington got his first major league victory against the Sox on Sunday. Seven losses in nine games...it would be more amazing if the Sox won one game in the playoffs.

I hope Minnesota does the same thing they did to us, and come back from down 6-0. It would teach us a lesson about not giving up...

Neither of these teams deserves to make the playoffs. Liriano is coming back to reality, too. He's not the same guy as 2006, not even close.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 07:35 PM) So to all the doubters on here....Hawk just said this team is choking. Are they choking, or just really bad? There's no mistake Carrasco was let go by the Royals, had to pitch in Japan and was in AAA. We couldn't go to Linebrink and Dotel that early...although I'm sure Ozzie will second-guess that one.

Now the boos come I am sure. And they are wholly deserved.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) This inning is so huge for Danks. I'd say the odds are 85% the Indians score. LOL.

Maybe Gordon's ready to be a player. 4-0 KC over Minnesota. L/L match-up works out for Hillman, who's done a great job bringing this team back from the dead to end the year on a high note.

Royals playing "Twins ball" so far... 3-0, at least they're making it interesting. Saturday will be the story of Glen Perkins and Javier Vazquez.

Indians 1 White Sox 1 Cabrera -1

I can't believe I"m saying this, but I would much rather listen to a presidential debate than the White Sox continuing/ongoing debacle/fiasco. This team really is an embarassment. If they're going to lose, they might as well get blown out and roasted by the fans. No more games like the last two nights in Minny.

DeJesus is out of the line-up for the Royals tonight.

I'm going to be interested to see how Anderson responds. So many people here have been clamoring for him, I think there's a very silent majority waiting to say "I told you so" when he goes 0 for 4, strikes out twice and leaves 5 RISP. Hopefully that won't be the case...but Anderson, if Lee goes Sunday, would have two starts in three games to make a final, lasting impression over the offseason. Or he could simply disappear like Wise. Same with Swisher.

QUOTE (joejoedairy @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 05:35 PM) ba in center thats a niiiiiiiice (in weird dj voice) Paciorek is actually the one that came up with that....

Dye didn't call the fans ignorant. The team is tight, just like in 2005...Mariotti, every single day that September, was cheering and pulling for a choke and accusing the team of quitting/dying. What do you expect Dye to say? "Sure, despite fighting for 145 days in first place, we just decided it wasn't worth the extra effort to play for one more week and extend ourselves into the playoffs. We know the Rays are a better team, and they play in a dome, so we basically decided after a team meeting that the Twins had a better chance of representing our division. Plus, the Twins just match up better with the Rays. F*** it, I'm going back to California with my money and wife and family. No matter what happens, I'll always have a ton of money and my future guaranteed, how many of those blue-collar Sox fans can say the same thing in this economy? Screw them!!!" We are reading too much into comments now with all this stuff coming out about OC, Ozzie and Swisher. He's a smart (and nice) guy, and has always been a fan favorite. This is starting to remind me of all the dissection that went on whenever Garland opened his mouth...or Garcia. Now it's Javier's turn to be toasted, and he deserves a lot of the flames he's receiving. But not Dye.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 04:39 PM) I don't fault Cabrera at all. I too wonder where has our "so-called" leader gone in Paul Konerko? I've thought he was overrated for awhile. Well before 2005, but fans seem to love him. He really does not lead or say anything. Just because he's a nice guy does not make him a leader. I rather have more guys like Cabrera who seem to at least give a damn instead of guys like Dye who are calling fans ignorant. Mike Sweeney is another good example. They tried to force him to be the captain and the face of the Royals, but he always resisted. Of course, he was great with the fans, always signed autographs...but Muser once said, sometimes we need LEADERS. "Chewing on cookies and eating milk and praying is not going to get it done," former Royals manager Tony Muser said. "I'd like them to go out and pound tequila … " Part of this was due to Sweeney's overt Christianity, but the essence was that being a nice guy alone and even being loved by the fans wasn't enough. Of course, the examples of Everett and Rowand will always be cited here, and juxtaposed with "nice guys" like Jermaine, Thome, Konerko...but for whatever reason, and maybe you can attribute it to AJ's attitude as well...we just don't have that killer instinct anymore, Ozzie is losing ground year by year in the clubhouse with these same players. They really need to start over again with some fresh blood and revitalize with even more youth, without tremendously overpaying. And that's hard to due, because we don't have many prospects left to trade and many spare parts on our major league roster that can be taken out. It's going to be one of those head-scratching, Pods/Carlos Lee "addition by subtraction" moves I think. We can part ways with Cabrera and Vazquez, but it will take a bigger cut to really change the overall mentality of this team/organization.

QUOTE (MO2005 @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 03:48 PM) I don't understand it either...2005 we had this grinder, get to your head type of approach like the Twins do..Podsednik leads off with a walk or single..Iguchi moves him over...Then Dye or Rowand would get him in...We had great execution in 2005 because we got to the pitcher's head and had good pitches to hit..Remember in 2005 we had like that unbelievable start with scoring first and winning remember? Guillen was in his 2nd year and I'm not saying he is not doing a good job now, but he has become just an a**hole..His Mike North Show vent, the Jay Mariotti thing, the Sean Tracey meltdown, etc. etc. I know it was funny and entertaining, but I remember in 2006 after that Mariotti thing was when the Whitesox fell apart. They were like 30 over .500, then tumbled to the finish line. In my opinion going out on a limb, we have to get rid of Guillen (which won't happen), trade Konerko, Fields (we don't need another guy in the lineup who will strikeout 150 a year), let Griffey walk, and trade Vazquez. The Sox have like the fifth largest payroll so instead of paying these old guys, pay for some guys who are feared! Get a manager in here that is hardnosed, but like Gardenhire, is respected. I don't think a lot of players respect him the way other managers like Francona, Torre, LaRussa, etc are respected. Trade Konerko and Fields for Figgins, then sign him to a deal to lead off and play 3rd. Sign Hudson or someone with some patience at the plate to play 2nd. Move Ramirez to SS. In center field I go with BA because of his great defense. Then give everything we got to spend this summer on CC Sabathia (longshot)...A guy who goes out every fifth day and we know can win us a game like yesterday. The bullpen was good the first half because our starters were also pitching well, then they imploded because our starters gave up runs and the pressure was put on them! Lineup next year looks like this: Figgins Hudson Quentin Dye Thome Swisher Pierzynski Anderson Ramirez This kind of has the same taste as 05 but probably a more finesse team. The only big strikeout guys are dye, thome, anderson...3 versus the 6-7 we have now in the lineup... Speed at the bottom...then keep Owens, Wise..Getz..utility for speed..this team would be a 95 win team..giving the confidence to the pitching knowing we can manufacture runs! It wasn't the run-in with Mariotti, we actually played remarkably well for a couple of weeks after that incident, and have usually done the same thing when the focus has been directly on Ozzie (and not on the clubhouse, like it is now...Swisher, OC). The 2006 team just couldn't sustain that offense the entire season, Jenks was hurt and ineffective the final two months and the pitching started to wear down or disintegrate (with the notable exception of Garcia's last two starts when we were essentially out of it). I don't think the Angels have any desire to acquire Josh Fields (they already have Brandon Wood and plenty of infielders), and there's a good chance they keep their new Rotisserie league star Texiera. Hudson..well, he would be good, but at what cost? Can we afford to take on yet another salary when we're already fifth in the majors and haven't had much to show for it, compared to 2005 when we were in the middle of the pack? I do think either Swisher or Konerko needs to go and we need a legitimate centerfielder. And speaking of "small ball," if Brian Anderson could do the same thing as Tadahito Iguchi, I'd say GREAT, sign me up. However, he's closer to Uribe. Sure, he'll give you 15-20 homers, but he's not a smart baseball player....he's an athlete trying to play baseball, just like Fields and Borchard. Ramirez is a baseball player who happens to be athletic (like Roberto Alomar in his prime, although that's just an example, too high a bar for Alexei). We need more of those type of players...even if they are aging, like Iguchi, we need players that know how to play the game right, that don't need to be coached or motivated or learn fundamentals. Once they arrive at the big league level, they pretty much are the player they are going to be.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 04:20 PM) Things are getting very ugly between Ozzie and OC. I really, really hope this s*** doesn't prevent us from offering him arbitration. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...-ssep26.article It should make them MORE likely to offer it, and even less likely that he would accept it. His play of late has pushed up his BA, RBI's, OBP, OPS to respectable overall season numbers, very similar to seasons past. KW is a smart enough guy not to let emotions get in the way of sound baseball decisions (except drafting his son and Oney Guillen, I guess). At least, he was smart enough to part ways with players like Garcia and McCarthy instead of holding onto them longer. I don't think any negative/spiteful sentiment will come into their decision to offer or not offer. Now what KW does with Brian Anderson, and whether he doesn't trade him (which would be the best thing for Brian's career and peace of mind), that will be an interesting thing to watch. Both Fields and Anderson are worth more to the Sox than they are to other teams, unfortunately. The same thing can be said of Dye and Thome too, because we can't field a team like the Twins and win in our ballpark without power hitters in the 2-6 spots.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Sep 26, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) Though with Cabrera and Wise (up until the last coupple of nights) hitting well at the top of the order, it sure would have been nice to have someone that didn't suck in the 3 hole. Has anything come out at all about Dye and off-field problems, or an injury? DJ made a comment (surreptitious/circumspect) about some type of issue, and that it was bothering or lingering with JD. The only thing I can compare it to is Jose over the last couple of seasons when things were going down behind the scenes with his divorce and he was just pitching like his pre-acquisition form...totally different player you didn't even recognize.